**FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

from FRC Teams <frcteams@usfirst.org>
reply-to frcteams@usfirst.org,
to undisclosed-recipients,
date Dec 21, 2007 3:48 PM
subject **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2

Greetings Teams:

42.349905
-71.076072
342.242026

Happy Holidays and GO TEAMS!

--
FIRST Robotics Competition

(p) 1-800-871-8326 x 0
(f) 603-666-3907
frcteams@usfirst.org
www.usfirst.org

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Latitude Longitude
42.349905 -71.076072

Are GPS coords for Boston...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

what the deuce?! is all I have to say to that.........

combined it is 313.515859

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Why do they do this to us???

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Boston is the home of the red sox....infrared....We're going to have to identify, with IR tool in first hint, and pick up red socks and put them in a bin

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Copley Square to be exact, and if you type that into Google map, it seems to point directly at something in copley square but it doesn't zoom in enough!!!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I'm pretty sure the arrow is just pointing to the center of Copley Square.

Any idea for what the third coordinate is for?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Height?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Whilst looking up stuff about copley Square I ran across this picture...... Was he serious this whole time???

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I'm thinking that it might be the position of something on the game field. If each of the numbers given are in inches the maximum value is something like 28.5 feet.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Could be, anyone know of a structure around Copley Square that's 342.242026 feet tall? Though I don't know, if they're coordinates then the first two would be in degrees and how would that work for the third one? I've never seen longitude / latitude and then a height given in the same format. But then again, this is a game hint, so who knows.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

google earth...bout same altitide with lat and lon http://www.homeofthegeek.net/2/42.34...-71.076072.jpg

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

the third coordinate might be time.
i'll work it out and give you the date in a sec.

if it's 342.242026 days from 01.01.2007 than the date is

December 9th, 2007 at 05:48am

that doesnt make much sense. (maybe that's when they shipped the IR??)

-Leav

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Copley Square = square game piece? *shrug*

EDIT: This one is from Libby - Copley Square is also on the corner of Harvard St. and BEACON St.

Hmmm....

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copley_Square theres a statue at the exact coordinates....

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

could be! That was the first thing I thought, but then again I don't think they would make it that easy!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

There is a pair of sculptures in Copley Square called The Tortoise and the Hare. Possibly a reference to something we have to do fast and something we have to do slow maybe???

It could also have something to do with Trinity Church.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

but if you change the coordinates slightly (like make -71.076072 -71.076200) it doesn't move off the statue, makes me believe as someone said, its just the middle of the square

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

How about Latitude, Longitude, Bearing?

Would some of our friends in Boston tell us what you see when standing in Copley Square looking at a bearing of 342 degrees magnetic?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

is there a way to do that on the computer???

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

You can calculate what you would be looking at but with Google Maps or any satellite it wont help because you get a birds eye view and not teh view you would get standing there.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

342.242026 hours are 14.2600844 days...

that's about the time until the kickoff.

-Leav

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Its named after John Singleton Copley. He was an American portraitist.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I'm poking around the area in Google Street Views... Nothing yet, will report in on any significant findings.

Edit: Interesting. In this square, triangles and squares are everywhere. I'm guessing these two will be our game shapes?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

actually on google map it has a street view and I'm in right now but I have now way of know which way I'm facing

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

hmm 2 hints that new

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

It looks like you'd end up looking at either a tree or bench... not like that is a rare sight.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Gotta love it...

FIRST's GDC...providing entertainment to loads of bored Bostonian FIRST'ers on a friday night.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

http://shinraikon.com/first/2008/hint%202/
maps of hint area
found using
http://www.robogeo.com/latlonfinder/map.asp

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

lmao, could you imagine???? 50 or so kids all get up and run to copley square with compasses and pieces of paper, and cameras chanting "WHAT CAN WE SEE!?!?!"

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

WOW!!! Gotta love it
Friday Night Excitement
;) :ahh:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

In the dark no less!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

All of the FIRSTer who go to MIT just walking out of their dorms and walking down the street to see.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I suppose I'll jump in here too

Credit to Ruth from 1735, Copely Sq is the finish line for the Boston Marathon...races/E stops like 2001 maybe?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Kinda wish I lived closer, I have enough spotlights we could light it up like a mid summers day...

Anyone one their way to the site?

-Mike

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Is it dark there already?

Look both ways. Or every which way. Oh, you know what I mean.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Copley painted about 350 paintings. Close to 342.242026

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Yeah, seems that the third number, 342.242026, is how many hours till kickoff... But what's with Copley Square? I'm curious, and hoping some of our boston friends can help us out...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

here is the best from google street view....

-Leav

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Yeah, I was looking there too... It seems the only thing I can find from this is the prevalence of both squares and triangles in Copley Square... Maybe those are related to the game objects?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

on the north side of the square, just to the west of north (maybe 342.242026 degrees?) there is a cafe called... are you ready?


"Globe Cafe" :yikes: :ahh:

lol...

-Leav

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Ooh. Very good find! Now there's all three shapes represented here... What if the game is going to have all three?!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

342.24 hours in days gives 14 days 6 hours 14 mins and 31 seconds....

Kickoff is still 14 days, 16 hours and 12 minutes away

Maybe something happens at that time...which is 10 hours from now (approximately)

is anyone else reminded of XKCD comic number 240?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Hmm...I found something interesting doing just that :)

So the first two coordinates lead us to Copely Square. If we assume that the third is height, we're either looking for something about 28.5 feet tall.

First enter the coodinates into Google maps to get centered on Copely Square. Now, using Street View, place the little yellow man on Boyslan Street about halfway between Dartmouth and Clarendon (North of the square). The approximate address in my window is 568 Boyslan and I'm looking between a mail truck and a white utility truck towards what appears to be the entrance to the square. Do you see what I see? Two pillars that sort of look like the Washington monument (maybe about 28.5 feet tall).

Could be something, could be nothing. I guess we'll see in a few weeks.

EDIT: The location that I found is ironically the same spot that Leav referenced. Turn around Leave :)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Hey guys. Just gunna post a few things about the 342, just because I don't think they'd give it to us if it was just the number of hours till kickoff.

342.242026:

342 chests of tea were dumped into Boston Harbor during the boston tea party.

342.242026 centimeters is 11.2 feet. Copley park was renovated in 1966: "the 1966 plan lowered the grade of the square almost 12 feet below sidewalk level and was mostly paved"

Anyone know of anything else?

Also, since the first clue was about IR remotes, I'm fairly confident that we have to get our robots to watch tv and drink beer.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

In Copley square you if you look from that point at 342 (deg on a compass)... North-North west or are in the North/Northwest section of the square there is a fountain... also the TRINITY church is located in the North/Northwest section of the square...

Conveniently I'll be down that way tonight. YAY NU and being on coop! Hopefully I'll be able to get some names of any monuments...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Based on previous game hints the hint may refer to the name of the game more than any specific aspect of the game.

Previous hints have also been sufficiently cryptic that the GPS co-ordinates may be a red herring. I'm not saying that they aren't relevant, just that the games (and hints) are designed by some pretty bright people who can hide other meanings beneath a very obvious surface clue.

What else could the numbers be if they aren't a GPS co-ordinate?

Jason


<edit>
Hmmm... statues in the square... wasn't that the key in Dan Brown's "Angels and Demons"? </edit>

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Ok, so I did a little graphing. Straight from the coordinates, at 342 degrees, you're looking through the two obelisks, straight at the Globe Cafe.

See attached.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

on google earth right at the coordinates is the Hancock tower, which is 344 meters tall. If you look at the roof of the building I believe it is a layout of the playing field....

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

you are right ofcourse, but by this stage my mind has gone all one track on me.... :)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

You are thinking WAY to small - it is the altitude of the space station in km.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Did a search for Copley Square and Rainbow ( The cable in the first hint )

http://my.barackobama.com/page/commu...ettewhite/CW8R

Too political for FIRST, but interesting. :ahh:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Robots playing football!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Where'd you find the height? Wikipedia says 240.7 meters tall (790 ft)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

There really isn't anything there. All I can think of that is at Copley Square is:

1. Trinity Church
2. Finish Line
3. Boston Public Library
4. Fountain
5. Statues
6. John Hancock Tower
7. Farmers Market
8. Another church
9. Duck Boats

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

OK- playing around here- this website gives a height for the JH tower as 791 feet/60 stories high. This works out to an average of 13.17feet per story. The same article mentions the old JH building, now called the Berkeley Building, at 26 stories. Mathematically, 13.166 feet * 26 stories = 342.316, which is really close to the number they gave us. Maybe something to do with Berkeley?

That's what a lack of sleep and too much sugar gets you.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

This is the hieght of the old tower not the new one!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

The Green and Orange from the subway lines might mean 4 alliances Red, Blue, Green, and Orange.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Where are we getting orange from?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

As nice as that would be, it's a bad idea. Colorblind people would have a problem...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Well, accounting for Magnetic Declination of 16 degrees West, that pushes the bearing to 326. That points toward the T-stop. Perhaps t-shaped peices?

Also, couldn't the GDC be sending this to us 342... hours before the kickoff as a timing mechanism.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

This theory is one I'm starting to like more and more, judging by various people's height measurements, and the building's location. May not indicate what the field will be, but looks like an important part of the clue.



Additionally, many have pointed to things such as the Trinity Church, Globe Cafe, Copley square, etc. Anyone else notice that the FIRST logo is a Triangle, Circle, and Square? Could be a coincidence, but worth looking at.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

In the corner of the park nearest the intersection of Boylston and Dartmouth, across from the T station, there is a Bostix Kiosk. The Wikipedia article on Copely Square says this kiosk was built in 1992 -- the year FIRST competitions started. The kiosk has an interesting shape.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

There seems to be what looks like a track on top of the building.
Hm? I have no idea what this means.

Maybe the GDC's just taking us around in circles...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Trinity Church = Trinity = (from the Websters dictionary on my desk) "a set of three persons or things that form a unit."

Hmm, 3 team alliances again maybe?, 3 things that form a unit = Circle, Square, Triange. Maybe each robot on an alliance has to score a particular shape somehow determined by the IR receiver?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Thinking clearly now- could it be a wavelength or frequency?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

342 Hz is the low end of the vocal frequency range

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I like this idea. It caould also mean that there are three alliances.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Voice commands? Something "low"? Ack, I'm just trying to catch up with this thread...

Offtopic
 

WARNING: Completely off-topic

This reminds me of build season last year. We were using CAT5 UTP for running our camera wires (and some of the other sensors too, I think) from our arm, through our turret, and back to the RC. Well, my Dad was labeling some of the wires prior to soldering and he happens to be red-green colorblind. For those that aren't familiar with it, CAT5 UTP has 8 wires in it, striped and solid color versions of the following: orange, green, blue, and brown. While there aren't any red-green pairings, orange and green apparently look the same to a colorblind individual.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Duck boats???? I used to live a block away. Copley Square sure has changed if they now have duck boats in the fountains!
There used to be a great deli that was open until the wee hours. It was called...Hey, wait a second ....

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Hmmm... wavelengths... good idea...

Here are the three numbers converted to their 64-bit floating point representation in binary:

01000000010010101001011001100100110101111111000011 101101001111011
11000000010110001110001001101111001011101000110000 000100100001011
01000000011110101011000111101111101010110101001111 010110010000010

and hex:

40452CC9AFE1DA7B
C051C4DE5D18090B
407563DF56A7AC82

using this calculator.


I was hoping for a pattern or a nice string of hex text. Maybe in a different base or arrangement of bits, or in 32 bit float....

But I'm thinking "Trinity" might be part of the game name. It is the kind of thing that might work.

Jason

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Sorry. I meant DUKW not DUCK.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

It sounds like a star map coordinates and they point to Ursa Major and Leo minor and it's also close to camelopardalis. Sounds kinda weird to me but you never know.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Ok well after some searching the person who made the statue was a guy named Lewis Cohen. There is another person by that name who was the mayor of the city of Adelaide, which is in the Australian state of South Australia. One of the founding fathers of Adelaide is Colonel William Light. So maybe the light is down under.:confused: :p

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Does anyone know where those GPS cordinates point to? Google seems to round the cordinates up.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

That's just crazy enough to be the right connection...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Again robots playing football?
Maybe, but i remember reading in a thread not too long ago, about someone seeing a truck filled with footballs outside FIRST. I don't know if this was 100% true but maybe.... We would have to shoot footballs through the obelisks, into a globe shaped bin and if you fill the entire bin you get bonus points???? I'm not sure really where I was going with this, but it seemed logical at the time of thought.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

the third number could refer to the dewey decimal system in the boston library right accross the street. anyone in boston want to got to the library and check? lol it is still open.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Warning this first idea is completely far fetched and most likely wrong
1) maybe it could be them trying to tell us that something in the game happens to deal with National Treasure because the second one came out today and in the first one they visit Trinity Church which the coordinates take you to the general area it's at

Now an idea that might work. Agreeing with a previous post that we could have to use three different game pieces, a square, circle, and triangle. Because it is Copley Square and someone said that when you look down the street using Google there are a lot of Triangles and Circles so maybe?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

342nm is in the near ultraviolet range, just out of the violet range which starts at 400nm
This is UVA or black light range

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

the statue is of a painter

in this picture there is a sphere
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:T...C_ca._1754.jpg :P

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

If we take this as latitude, longitude, compass bearing, it points from Copley Square directly towards Manchester, NH. :yikes:

Hahaha!

Just like XKCD, by creating a set of coordinates as a game hint, they have invariably altered the future and will thus cause a lot of FIRSTers to visit said location. And if they continue to follow said bearing of 342.242026 degrees until they arrive in Manchester, NH, and eventually FIRST, I bet there's going to be a sign on the door that says something like "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine".

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Is there an event in that coordinat's area next week, say on Thursday? Just trying to guess something.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Hmm multiple game hints...

What else has an FRC game never had more than 1 of before? Autonomous? Endgame task?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

According to wiki, 342 in the Dewey Decimal System is constitutional and administrative law...hmm...

The connection to National Treasure seems more plausible if you take the last number as a Dewey Decimal number:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

but does Dewey Decimal have that many significant digits? That alone is what makes me thing it's either a bearing measurement (likely) or a time measurement (less likely)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I was thinking this too but after playing around I came to conclusion that this isn't quite right. FIRST headquarters is at 200 Bedford St., Manchester, NH 03101 which according to http://www.capelinks.com/cape-cod/maps/geocode/ is at 42.989618, -71.46754 and then using great circle navigation accounting for WGS84 modeling yields a bearing from true North of 335.82928497115023. Accounting for magnetic declination doesn't help. Just too much precision to account for other locations in Manchester, NH.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Too bad the Boston Public Library doesn't use the dewey decimal system. It uses the Library of Congress system which means that number can't be a reference to a book.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

I agree that it's probably not really a reference to National Treasure and the Dewey Decimal system, but I'm thinking through that line of thought for a while longer yet. It has too many small points that line up for me to dismiss it as a coincidence yet, leading me to believe it's either a correct interpretation or a very clever red herring.

Of course, I could easily be wrong. I swear, I only act like a conspiracy theorist during hint season...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

John Singleton Copley -> Boston Tea Party -> Throwing Tea into ... WATER!!

Hahahahaha. juuuuuust kidding. Gotta love stretching the hints =P

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Google only returns two results for 342.242026, Both of them CD

EDIT: Mike is posting his idea himself, no need for it to be duplicated here

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

maybe they aren't GPS coordinates. just a thought

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

2nd 2 numbers could be magnetic north in GPS.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

The library call number 342 refers to 'The U.S. Constitution And The Supreme Court', which is a large book series. 242026 might refer to a page number and section, or a book and a page number in the set...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Perhaps the nature of the clues are clues.

The first clue was something you can hold/touch/assemble/teach/play with

The second clue is somewhere you go/look and possibly involves time

Perhaps there is a special scoring element you give your robot when time for autonomous mode or endgame, and it is to go somewhere to receive coordinates/instructions from IR on how to use/score it.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Haha yes that would be quite problematic for those who have difficulties in telling clolrs apart... especially those colors and havin to do it in such rapidness haha. They wouldn't be THAT mean to us now :p

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

How’s this for a stretch:
The game (or game name) involves something along the lines of “Truckin’” or “Grateful Dead.”


How I got there:

If the first two numbers are latitude/longitude and point to Copley Square and the Trinity Church, it could be a reference to the movie “National Treasure,” in which the treasure was beneath Trinity Church.

Now, it was mentioned that the third number could be a Dewey Decimal system number and that the Boston Public Library is near Copley Square. 342 in the Dewey Decimal system is constitutional and administrative law, strengthening the connection to “National Treasure.” However, it was also stated that the Boston Public Library uses the Library of Congress system (I can’t find that stated on wiki, but I’ll take your word for it).

Searching “national treasure” on Wikipedia yielded a page about national treasures instead of the movie. Listed was a song called “Truckin’” by the Grateful Dead, which is considered by the Library of Congress to be a national treasure.

The chorus of “Truckin’” runs like this:

Sometimes the light's all shining on me
Other times I can barely see
Lately it occurs to me
What a long strange trip it's been

(Yes, I know this is entirely crazy. I just had fun linking it all together, and it’s a really odd set of connections.)

Link to lyrics for “Truckin’”
Link to the wiki page on national treasures in general.
Link to the wiki page on “National Treasure” the movie.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

Steph-- Dave's facebok status is:

Dave Lavery
is Truckin' . . . (where is Jerry Garcia when you need him?)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #2
 

It says he changed it AFTER I posted - is he just messing with us??