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Jeff 801 26-12-2007 22:48
AM Super Shifters
 
who out there has bought one of the super shifters and what do you think

Schnabel 26-12-2007 23:41
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
I can't account for the current super shifter, but the original design that we made last year worked very well! I think we plan on getting some of these this year however.

Cory 26-12-2007 23:54
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff 888 (Post 664110)
who out there has bought one of the super shifters and what do you think
Most teams probably haven't purchased theirs yet, since the game hasn't been released.

The Super Shifter is the latest revision in a long line of AndyMark transmissions. based on my personal experience with the Gen 2, and other AndyMark products, it will be high quality, extremely robust, and easy to work with. AndyMark is always striving to improve their products, and I can only imagine the Super Shifter is even better than previous iterations.

Team 254 has used AndyMark products on our robots since 2005, and will continue to do so if at all possible. They are a great value, and save teams a lot of work that's often better spent elsewhere.

Mr. Odlies 27-12-2007 04:33
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
We ordered our super shifters about 2 weeks be for winter brake and they came in 2 days be for brake started. I took it a part, took it home, mounted one with the servo and rubbed it up and down. To put it frankly, its da bomb. Has a very good shift with the doggy gear and is also compact. The only problem is that its heavy, 11.5 pounds.

Lil' Lavery 27-12-2007 08:28
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Odlies (Post 664153)
We ordered our super shifters about 2 weeks be for winter brake and they came in 2 days be for brake started. I took it a part, took it home, mounted one with the servo and rubbed it up and down. To put it frankly, its da bomb. Has a very good shift with the doggy gear and is also compact. The only problem is that its heavy, 11.5 pounds.
I assume the 11.5 lb. measurement is with two 2.5" CIM motors? Even still sounds a bit heavy. The AndyMark website lists the Super Shifters at 4.6 lb. without motors, and iirc the CIM motors are a little over 2 lb. each. Meaning it should only total less than 9 lb., rather than eleven and a half! :confused:
Perhaps the weight I recall for the CIM motor is entirely incorrect, which is quite possible. If not, are you weighing anything else with the transmission?
Are you weighing two Super Shifters each with one CIM motor (and the CIMs being significantly lighter than I remember)?

Andy Baker 27-12-2007 09:22
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 664160)
The AndyMark website lists the Super Shifters at 4.6 lb. without motors...
I just re-weighed one and got the same result at 4.6 pounds for a Super Shifter (with no motor).

There are ways to reduce weight on this gearbox. One option is to purchase 4 spacers that would replace the black protective extrusion.

The black extrusion weighs 0.71 pounds. 4 of the 2" spacers weigh 0.11 pounds. 0.6 lbs could be saved with this swap.

Also, weight could be reduced from the gears. This would involve more machining time, and that would result in more cost and a higher price for these transmissions. We chose to leave the weight reduction efforts to our customers, and keeping our price as low as we can for this product.

As far as orders go, we have been consistently shipping out these gearboxes within a day or two of the order being placed.

Andy B.

Andrew Schuetze 27-12-2007 09:48
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Took me a month to get the purchase order out due to school district red tape but then less than a week for AM to deliver. Likewise, we received them days before the winter break. That was enough time to lay hands on them and consider a design idea that has been floating in my head since seeing some of the west coast drive-trains posted here. What was a real help was the full CAD assembly on AM and a search for 8020 CAD on Google. The result is a full day of Inventor work in between eating Christmas dinner left-overs.
499 design All we need now is a machine shop to assist with milling these custom saddles as it will require a lot of material to be removed. I am assuming the best (only) means of attaching these to the frame is via the four through bolts on the transmission.:D

Billfred 27-12-2007 10:05
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Baker (Post 664166)
As far as orders go, we have been consistently shipping out these gearboxes within a day or two of the order being placed.

Andy B.
For those of us with visions of drive systems dancing in our heads, are there any products that seem inclined to a post-Kickoff crunch?

Andy Baker 27-12-2007 10:39
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfred (Post 664169)
For those of us with visions of drive systems dancing in our heads, are there any products that seem inclined to a post-Kickoff crunch?
We have done our best to build up inventory for a post-Kickoff crunch. For this being our 4th year supplying parts to FRC teams, I feel that we've done a good job in forecasting sales and an even better job in fabricating and assembling parts for this yearly crunch. I'm confident that we will be able to ship orders out within 2-3 days of the order being placed, at the very latest. Of those 4 years, I feel that we are best prepared this year.

If we see a run on certain products that are beyond our forecasting, then I will communicate that issue on the product page of our website, and also gear up our fabricators so that our inventory stays ahead of the demand.

As for this Super Shifter, I am especially happy that we are able to offer various options for teams to do what they wish. From optional output ratios to 2 types of ratios between high and low gear, along with extended shafts and a solution to replace the black extrusion with spacers, I am happy to show that we have listened to customers and responded to most of their requests.

So... um... yeah, we're ready. Bring it on. :)

Andy B.

Tom Bottiglieri 27-12-2007 10:42
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
We ordered one to do some pre season testing. It's a bit heavy, but it sits in a tiny package. As Andy stated, theres definitely ways to take out weight if its an issue, so that may be a moot point. We are about 99% sure we will be using them. For a tiny efficient gear box with the servo shifting and encoder built right in, I don't think you can beat the price.

=Martin=Taylor= 27-12-2007 12:12
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Baker (Post 664172)
We have done our best to build up inventory for a post-Kickoff crunch. For this being our 4th year supplying parts to FRC teams, I feel that we've done a good job in forecasting sales and an even better job in fabricating and assembling parts for this yearly crunch. I'm confident that we will be able to ship orders out within 2-3 days of the order being placed, at the very latest. Of those 4 years, I feel that we are best prepared this year.

If we see a run on certain products that are beyond our forecasting, then I will communicate that issue on the product page of our website, and also gear up our fabricators so that our inventory stays ahead of the demand.

As for this Super Shifter, I am especially happy that we are able to offer various options for teams to do what they wish. From optional output ratios to 2 types of ratios between high and low gear, along with extended shafts and a solution to replace the black extrusion with spacers, I am happy to show that we have listened to customers and responded to most of their requests.

So... um... yeah, we're ready. Bring it on. :)

Andy B.
Is there (or will there be) an improvement to the SS Shifter that allows teams to mount sprockets inside the housing (similar to the GEN 2)? This would make it a more viable option for some designs.

Andy Baker 27-12-2007 12:22
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII (Post 664196)
Is there (or will there be) an improvement to the SS Shifter that allows teams to mount sprockets inside the housing (similar to the GEN 2)? This would make it a more viable option for some designs.
No, we do not have plans to offer this option.

Andy B.

Mr. Odlies 27-12-2007 14:58
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Back to the weight, that was measured with 2 cim motors on the gear box's. Andy, is there any plan for a 3 speed gear box? Also could you put out a inv file of your mecanum wheels? On your site there is just the right front and rear left.

chris31 27-12-2007 15:04
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Odlies (Post 664237)
Back to the weight, that was measured with 2 cim motors on the gear box's. Andy, is there any plan for a 3 speed gear box? Also could you put out a inv file of your mecanum wheels? On your site there is just the right front and rear left.
That is because they are the same thing. All of the CAD is on their website.

Mr. Odlies 27-12-2007 15:14
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Well with mecanum wheels, they have to be angled like this:

Madison 27-12-2007 15:21
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Odlies (Post 664242)
Well with mecanum wheels, they have to be angled like this:
The diagonally opposed wheels are the same. You need only the two, mirrored CAD models to model the full drive train.

Also, you'll want to arrange your wheels differently than is shown in that diagram. I'll leave figuring out why as an exercise to the reader. ;)

waialua359 27-12-2007 19:16
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
the black housing on ours is a little too short in length.
We are actually replacing our housing with spacers to lengthen it just a bit more allowing for the gear to spin more easily and to reduce weight. :D
We havent figured yet on how we would create an adapter plate to fit the larger FP CIM motor. Too much interference everywhere.

We were able to make a plate for our older AM2 shifters with direct drive shaft at this point for prototyping.

We havent yet tested ours.

To Andy: As we inspected our encoders, we noticed that the shaft does not fully get pressed in there. Is it supposed to be like that?

thanks.

kramarczyk 27-12-2007 19:32
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by M. Krass (Post 664245)
Also, you'll want to arrange your wheels differently than is shown in that diagram. I'll leave figuring out why as an exercise to the reader. ;)
That depends, is the diagram a top view or a bottom? ;)

Mr. Odlies 27-12-2007 19:36
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Very true, Andy Mark just came out with a new set of mecanum wheels. What makes them better then the old set?

David 27-12-2007 19:43
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Odlies (Post 664354)
Very true, Andy Mark just came out with a new set of mecanum wheels. What makes them better then the old set?
They are just a different size. The new ones are 6in in diameter, whereas the old ones were 8in. I do not believe there is any advantages to the new ones other than weight.

Billfred 27-12-2007 20:22
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by David (Post 664360)
They are just a different size. The new ones are 6in in diameter, whereas the old ones were 8in. I do not believe there is any advantages to the new ones other than weight.
There is one advantage to the 6" wheel: it's ambidextrous. A team that wanted spares now doesn't have to buy one more left and one more right wheel and hope two lefts don't break; they can just buy two wheels.

Andy Baker 27-12-2007 21:40
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by waialua359 (Post 664347)
To Andy: As we inspected our encoders, we noticed that the shaft does not fully get pressed in there. Is it supposed to be like that?
The portion of the Wheel Shaft that has the encoder disk pressed onto it could be a bit longer, but there is enough of a press there for the encoder to function properly. The encoder disk is placed on the shaft before shipment at the right location. If the disk is pressed further toward the circuit board, it may not work properly.

Andy B.

MrForbes 27-12-2007 22:06
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Odlies (Post 664237)
On your site there is just the right front and rear left.
You have to hold a mirror up to your monitor to see the other two wheels.

(or maybe there's a mirror thingy in the cad software?)

Mr. Odlies 27-12-2007 22:10
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel (Post 664440)
You have to hold a mirror up to your monitor to see the other two wheels.

(or maybe there's a mirror thingy in the cad software?)


wow, lol. Ya inventor has a mirror feature that i use a lot.

Ed Sparks 27-12-2007 22:30
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
FYI,

I've posted most of the AndyMark gears in the FirstCadLibrary. My versions of these parts are more photo and weight realistic. I put these together so I can evaluate the effects of weight reduction operations to these parts.

ChuckDickerson 28-12-2007 01:09
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Andy,

Will the extended SS output shaft found here: http://www.andymark.biz/am-0147.html also work on the Gen 2 Servo Shifters thus allowing the output shaft to extend outside this side plates? If so how far would it stick out past the outside of the bearing?

JoelP 28-12-2007 03:04
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
I want to replace the output shafts with the extended output shafts but I wasn't sure how I would go about making sure the encoder wheels are in the correct location. Is there any proper way to position the encoder wheels on the output shaft accurately?

pakratt1991 28-12-2007 07:26
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
We'll be ordering our soon (they should have already been but I think the task was pushed aside, Christmas :rolleyes: ) We will also be planning what needs to be done to modifying them to work with the Outback Manufacturing Tank Treads, and also hopefully to decrease some of the weight :D

This all starts today, so I'll see what we get out of it and let ya'll know

waialua359 28-12-2007 15:03
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Baker (Post 664436)
The portion of the Wheel Shaft that has the encoder disk pressed onto it could be a bit longer, but there is enough of a press there for the encoder to function properly. The encoder disk is placed on the shaft before shipment at the right location. If the disk is pressed further toward the circuit board, it may not work properly.

Andy B.
mahalo, mahalo, mahalo......:D :D :D
By the way, how was the black housing painted....anodized, powder coat, ??
thanks.

Cory 28-12-2007 15:55
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by waialua359 (Post 664614)
mahalo, mahalo, mahalo......:D :D :D
By the way, how was the black housing painted....anodized, powder coat, ??
thanks.
When I saw it at IRI it was anodized.

Jim Meyer 03-01-2008 13:56
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
We bought a couple of these and received them incredibly quick. Three or four days IIRC. It would take at least a week for our team to build these ourselves.

They certainly seem to be quite solid. They may be a little on the heavy side but the reliability I expect them to have more than makes up for their heft. We can spend a little effort lightening these and then use all that extra time making the rest of the robot lighter.

JesseK 04-01-2008 13:07
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
We're pretty excited about our shifters; they came in a couple of weeks before the break and we had the opportunity to run one with just a single 2006 CIM motor and the servo. Our only problem was (still is) mounting it to our prototype frame, but that's because the mounts we made twisted when we welded them to the frame -- we're making a new process tomorrow to avoid this on the actual frame, but other than that we're very impressed with this transmission.

Also of note is that the keyed universal hub is fantastic mate for this transmisssion, and the hubs look like they only need a slight shave for the flat AM sprockets to fit over them -- something to consider if you plan to direct-drive one of your wheels from the transmission.

AndrewN 04-01-2008 14:11
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kramarczyk (Post 664353)
That depends, is the diagram a top view or a bottom? ;)
Has to be a bottom view based on the vectors.
Quite the spin.. :rolleyes:

Richard Wallace 08-01-2008 15:55
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Meyer (Post 667082)
We bought a couple of these and received them incredibly quick. Three or four days IIRC. It would take at least a week for our team to build these ourselves.

They certainly seem to be quite solid. They may be a little on the heavy side but the reliability I expect them to have more than makes up for their heft. We can spend a little effort lightening these and then use all that extra time making the rest of the robot lighter.
Ordered a pair Saturday about two hours after the kickoff presentation ended. Received them this morning about 10am.

As Jim says they seem very solid. Shifting is very smooth. And there is clearly some room to reduce weight by simple operations the team can perform.

waialua359 08-01-2008 16:01
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard (Post 672480)
Ordered a pair Saturday about two hours after the kickoff presentation ended. Received them this morning about 10am.

As Jim says they seem very solid. Shifting is very smooth. And there is clearly some room to reduce weight by simple operations the team can perform.
swap out the black anodized housing with aluminum spacers on the corners. We had to anyway since the black housing was too thin causing our gears to bind.

Aarnat 01-02-2008 21:18
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Hi all,
We have two AndyMark super shifters with two motors going into each transmission, and servos that change the gears. We definitely look forward to using them and seeing our robot fly around the track.

My question is: How has your team programmed them? My idea is to have two switches on the joystick: one to switch the transmission into the first gear and the second button to switch it into the second gear.

Also I read on the AndyMarrk website that we should ease off the accelerator when we shift; especcially since we are using the servo shifter. Has anyone had any problems with that?

Thanks!!!

CardcaptorRLH85 01-02-2008 21:35
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
If you don't ease off of the power when you shift you will hear the most gut wrenching sound of gears at high speed crunching...we haven't managed to break anything since changing gears during autonomous mode wasn't really necessary last year and our driver slowed down when shifting during teleoperated mode.

I've been doing a bit of sensor code testing with our 2007 robot since I can't get any time with the '08 bot yet and I have noticed that after too many high speed shifts the servos tend to not make the gears mesh like they used to. I guess what I'm saying is, don't try your luck with the servos.

For your first question, I'll post the code that we used to make our servos go ^_^ We used a PWM Y cable to connect both servos to a single PWM output.

This part was in our Default Routine function (HIGH is defined as 1 and LOW as 0)
Code:
if (p1_sw_top || p2_sw_top) {gear = HIGH;}
if (p1_sw_trig || p2_sw_trig) {gear = LOW;}
Set_Gear(gear);
This is the Set_Gear function (the else is a just in case thing ^_^)
Code:
void Set_Gear(char set)
    {
        if (set == LOW)
        {
            pwm05 = 255;
        }
        else if (set == HIGH)
        {
            pwm05 = 0;
        }
        else
        {
            pwm05 = 127;
        }   
    }
This made it so that the top buttons for either the first or second controllers shifted to high and either trigger shifted to low.

=Martin=Taylor= 02-02-2008 02:03
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
One of the spacers on our piston mount was .126" longer than theother one :ahh: Causing the piston to not mount properly. We fixed this on the lathe...

Other than that, they are great. They run very smooth.

R.C. 03-08-2008 16:37
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
One problem that I did have during the season was that we were shifting at 60 psi, not needed. It broke a couple of roll pins and pulled out the shifter block constantly. Make sure to have a regulator attached to the solenoid, 15-20 psi.

Cory 03-08-2008 16:42
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rc_cola1323 (Post 759971)
One problem that I did have during the season was that we were shifting at 60 psi, not needed. It broke a couple of roll pins and pulled out the shifter block constantly. Make sure to have a regulator attached to the solenoid, 15-20 psi.
You can put a stroke regulating spacer in also.

Alan Ing 04-08-2008 00:30
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
Interesting.

We used heavily modified AM super shifters this year and overall they worked very well for us. We have been using 60 psi in our shifting cylinders since 2003 including the AM shifters in 2006 and 2007. We never once had a problem with the roll pins, but this year, we had a few.

In Oregon, we sheared our first pin and one of the teams gave us a replacement. We thought it was a fluke or something we did when we modified the AMs. We then broke this other one prior to the eliminations which caused all sorts of excitement as we couldn't get a replacement. We ended up taking a drill bit the same size as the pin, cut it with a dremel and hammered it into the shifting dog. Thats the fun part of regionals, coming up with last minute solutions to put you back in the game. Surprisingly it was a pretty good fit and lasted the rest of the season including IRI.

Prior to Hawaii, I figured that we needed to add spacers into the cylinders to limit the stroke like Cory suggested. Figured they were in all our previous machines so that would probably solve the problem. Wrong....... Heading into the Finals we sheared our other dog roll pin during the first match which prevented us from driving straight as the transmission got stuck in neutral. During the break, we tried to change out the pin, but just could not do it in the time before the 2nd match so we locked it in 2nd gear and hoped for the best. At first it looked okay, but eventually we lost the transmission again and lost the match.

Coincidentally, the finals were against Cory's team 254, 233, and 2454.

I don't believe that it would have made a difference in the outcome of the match as our alliance was just outgunned, but it would have been nice to at least given you guys a good showing. Both our alliance captain (359) and us (368) went into the final match with broken machines. I think 2437 our alliance partner was still functional though.

Anyway, we replaced the broken roll pin with a dowel pin for the Championships and that seemed to solve the problem. I would highly recommend this small modification if you run 60 psi.

Prior to IRI we managed to shear the small roll pin in the shift block but we replaced those and went on to have a great time in IRI.

Well, perhaps the next time, we will do the smart thing and put a secondary regulator on the shifter and change all the roll pins to dowel pins.

I would highly recommend the AMs, our problem could have been due to the weight reduction modifications we did.

falconmaster 07-08-2008 23:38
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
We used them in three regionals and Internationals and we never had a problem. We love them!
We have used both pneumatics and servos, We like pneumatics better. More reliable during autonomous. We sometimes would get a servo shutter upon the start of the autonomous period and the gear would be out for a fraction of a second,right when the robot controller would initialize. There fore we could not always go in a straight line.

R.C. 07-08-2008 23:42
Re: AM Super Shifters
 
The supershifters in my opinion are way to havyy and don't need that third stage of reduction. Otherwise they're pretty good tranny's.


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