An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Just for fun - let's list pros and cons of a FIRST water game challenge. If other threads have been created for the purpose of listing the pros and cons, please share the links so we can explore those posts. The water can be any part of the game challenge in this thread.

Please use this thread for listing and feel free to give examples to support the pro or con. This is not intended to create arguments or drama, it is intended to create a list of pros and cons, period. Veterans and rookies, please feel free to participate.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Pro:
kill other robots with water!:D

Con:
water + electrons = angry robot drivers.:confused:

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

pros: none

cons: everything about water.

:P

I truly don't understand the fascination with a water game. It doesn't interest me at all.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Hi as it so happens I have talked about this on a different thread just recently, but enough blabbing by me here are some pros and cons.

PRO: Awesome learning experience. Make cool submersible bot. And water bots are just plain cool.:D :cool:

CON: Lots of work (might not be able to do in 6 weeks). $Expensive$. Hard design( MUST BE WATER PROOF!).

Hows that for starters?

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Pro: Something different, with all new engineering challenges. This has the side-effect of somewhat leveling the playing field between veterans and rookies--the veterans have no previous designs to reuse.

Con: The only major con that I see involves arenas; I just don't see how FIRST could find 40-50 regional venues that have large tanks of water, pit space, and lots of seating.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Okay,

Being a volunteer I have several ideas running through my head about this so here it goes:

Pros: Very interesting robot designs, an all new type of challenge for all teams, new engineering challenges even the mentors may not know.

Cons: Lots of water needed and lots of insurance needed for venues, not enough innovation by F.I.R.S.T. to be able to secure the radio equipment safely.

I could go on, but there is a few ideas to through out there! :yikes: :D ;)

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Caveat: This is for a traditional "Water game" involving robots in or interacting with a pool of some sort.

Pros:
-It's different. Something FIRST has never come close to doing before, and provides entirely new challenges.

Cons:
-Viewing may be difficult for spectators, and the field will be exorbitantly expensive.
-Current regional sites might not like the idea of that much water in their precious arenas.
-"And if water's involved, we're gonna have to ground the crap out of the thing" -Sheldon on Big Bang Theory

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Pros: It's pretty easy to build an underwater robot and do well in a competition.

Cons: Hardly anyone realizes the pros!

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Pros:

• Interesting game piece intereactions
• totally new experience
• Forced development of a robust, fault tolerant robot

Cons:

• Water rated components are $$expensive
• Difficult to build a test field
• Building a robust robot.
• Autonomous has to now deal with even more variables

A water game just doesn't appear to fit into the FRC agenda, but I can only imagine a FWC (FIRST Water Competition) happening in the near future.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

For reference , I'm an underwater robotics professional (software), 20 years in the business, mainly tethered robots, commerical or military WORK vehicles (not research or university projects).

Observations:

Building a dumb, tethered, shallow-water robot that swims around and does some basic stuff can be fun and relativley straight forward. I've done it... http://www.gearsinc.org/image/tid/15

Building a smart, untethered, robot that swims around and does ANYTHING at ALL can be a HUGE challenge.

Here are some of the problems I see with a FRC style underwater game:

1) Multiple tethered robots can't really be let loose in the same pool without a lot of supervision, otherwise you end up with a mess of twisted cables. Radio doesn't work through water, so you have a FLL-Sytle one-at-a-time scenario with wires.

2) Navigation underwater is extremely difficult (unless you use wheels or tracks but what's the point of that) and you have the 6 degrees of freedom to deal with, so any sort of autonomous behavior is very difficult. It's easy to "propose" a method that will work, but try and find somone who's done it for less than $10,000

3) Water is a VERY unforgiving environment. Even if you assume that fresh water is relatively non conductive, you really have a lot of trouble keeping it out of any "downside" electronics, so the easiest strategy it to leave all the smarts on the dry end of the cable. The robot just becomes a dumb toy. Putting smarts in the robot is the ultimate goal, but generic hardware typically just insn't suited.

4) Vision systems are severly challenged underwater. The optics aren't the same as in the air, and distance is a problem. cameras don't give a good depth of field, or spacial reference, so it's very easy to lose orientation.

5) Seeing into a pool from outside is problematic. It's not to bad if you have side windows, but doing anything from above is tough.

So, technologically speaking it's a hard nut to crack, unless you have some professional tethers, waterproof housings and a good camera system. Plus, expect to lose more electronics from water intrusion than you would normally lose from normal techical problems. Water is a B*tch.

Having said all that, I think coming up with a game to give kids exposure to the underwater side of robotics is a GREAT idea. The trick would be to take the "concepts" of FIRST and adapt it to a totally new underwater game environment.

The flaw would be to look at the sophistication that we now have in FRC, VEX and FLL and assume that we can jump right into the underwater world.
Not True.

There needs to be a whole new set of tools and components developed to let us ease into it slowly. Some of the IFI hardware applies, but it needs to be reconfigured... eg: the Flat IFI RC unit would need to be re-shaped to fit inside a long 2" tube. Likewise the speed controllers need to be remodeled so that the hot part can be exposed to a surface cooled by the pool water (no real chance of that fan cooling working for long)

As an underwater professional I see the industry still in it's infancy, despite what is already being acheived. I think there is the potential for huge growth, and as such, LOTS of fun careers for future Engineers/Scientists.

My reason for starting to play with PVC bots is that I want to start moving down this road myself. Getting more kids involved with underwater technology... Start with the basics and look at where the most bang for the design buck can lead. I hope to get a test tank built at my facility and do a summer "underwater camp" next year for middle school kids.

To summarize:

Con: Many technical and procedural challenges

Pro: Hugely worthwile endeavor. Please let me help.

Phil.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Here's a similar thread: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...f+wa ter+game

Oh, and a con or two:
1) hard to see the robots
2) not unique enough (squirrel--what's that website for the water competition? h2orobotics.org or something like that?)

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

I agree with many of your points

1. Yes tether management is a problem, but that is part of the drama and challenge. This can be minimized by putting all components on board the ROV. This would reduce the tether size and increase manageability. You would oly need control signals or basically tether that would be used by teams in the pit at an FRC event. It would be a lot longer. We have used 100 foot plus with no problems. We have done this.
2004
http://www.phxhs.k12.az.us/education...e41b725c1abb3b
2005
http://www.phxhs.k12.az.us/education..._id=1198816467
2006
http://www.phxhs.k12.az.us/education..._id=1198816528
2007
http://www.phxhs.k12.az.us/education...13&pagecat=323
We have even done multiple robots with multiple tethers with great success.

2. I agree navigation is difficult, again that is part of the challenge. you can mount a camera on a dive compass, it works and it gives the pilot or team captain a task he must attend to. You can use Inertial navigation units but they don't account for drift. You can get them fairly inexpensive.

3. Water is unforgiving, again that is part of the challenge. We have made simple housings to enclose all the robotic components and we have had a great deal of success.
http://www.phxhs.k12.az.us/education...13&pagecat=330

4. Yes this too is true, but using different angle lenses and focal lengths, this is not much of a problem. There are very many inexpensive cameras that can be used and making them water tight is very inexpensive.
http://www.phxhs.k12.az.us/education...60&pagecat=110

5. Seeing into a pool is not needed if you have many cameras in the pool that would project the images on a large video screen. You need a person to switch which cameras to use when to provide the audience with the desired view. You can even have the ROV's point of view. We have done this too.
We even did this in the dark.Doing it in the light would be so much easier.
http://www.h2orobots.org/summerindex.htm
select Team 1 Falcon Robotics, they had the best lighting so the video was better. In light this would have been no problem at all.

All in all
Pros-More challenging in many areas, not so challenging in others. Would also expose students to new problems faced in the real world. There would be more deliberateness in the competition rather than haphazardly moving around the field. It is a different paced excitement, but it is excitement none the less. Its another way to see if the FIRST model works in another venue than just a FIRST one. Besides most of the planet is water, we will have to confront this sometime.

Cons-it is different and challenging, not necessary more than FRC, just different. Different can seem hard to teams that have never done it. As a team that has, I can say its just different. It does fly in face of common sense putting electricity into water.

We hold an "underwater FIRST" in Arizona in June.
http://www.h2orobots.org/
Come take the challenge and find out for your self. Teams have most of the components already to get most of the rov built, that is how we got started.

Team 1726 The NERDS won the event last year!

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

For pro mainly its just a new experience and levels the playing field between rookie teams and veteran teams.

CONS:
every team would need to get a huge vat of water of find a local pool that will hopefully let them use it.

Also FIRST would need to have a huge water field that could be movable and refilled at each even but then you have issues with leaks and the fact that all that water would add up to alot of $$ in the end.:ahh:

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Team 842 might disagree with you on that.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/19661
http://www.h2orobots.org/
http://www.marinetech.org/rov_competition/


Pros: Fun, different, lots of new challenges.
Cons: will scare off some teams, a different sort of venue is required

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Can you provide a link to an underwater Inertial Navigation system that you consider "fairly inexpensive"?

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

BTW, I thinks it's Great that Falcon Robotics has tackled the task of FIRSTing an underwater robotics competition. If they were closer to MD I'd want to send a team.

The more I thought about "problems" with fielding a team for this sort of competition, I realized that an essential isse is that it may be hard to find somewhere to test your robot.

Granted, not many FRC teams have full size playing fields for practice, but at least you can test the drive system anywhere. For a ROV contest, you need a reasonable quantity of water. If your school doesn't have a pool, or (more likely) they won't let you use it for robots, then what's the next option?

Sure you can use a 55 Gallon barrel of water..... but seriously, it's hard to build excitement that way :)

Once agian, I'm not trying to discourage the idea, I'm just highlighting the key problems, in order that they can be addressed. We don't have a school pool in my area, and even though I'm on a small lake, it would be difficult to use for testing purposes (especially when it's frozen :)

Luckilly, I've found a firm that will build me a test tank, and I have somewhere to put it. I'm am hugely lucky in this regard.

Phil.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

The systems I am referring to does not come complete and are not very accurate. You can use a set of accelerometers that FIRST has provided in the past, I don't recall the make an model, maybe someone else can. They do not however account for drift as I mentioned before. Right now we are working on using two digital compasses that Davantech makes
http://www.acroname.com/robotics/par...7-COMPASS.html
and we can read the data coming from them, the next step is integrating it into the robot controller. It may not be as accurate, but we are not traveling long distances and we have visual feedback from the video cameras as well to make corrections. We will post our findings when we are done working on it. They cost 60 dollars each. The best thing is to use a Doppler Velocity Logger but that is 12 grand. Another compromise is
http://www.cloudcaptech.com/crista_imu.shtm
I think it is about $1500 - $2000 about he price of a IFI control unit
Maybe if FIRST buys lots of these the price might drop?

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

The tank is the biggest issue. Either the venue has to change or you can buy a lot of above ground pools. Very expensive for just one year. This is a problem for someone at a higher pay grade than mine.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Maybe that's why the underwater competition works so well in Arizona, of all places....if you live in Arizona, and you don't have a swimming pool in your back yard, your neighbor does!

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

con:
it would be hard to make a water tight field

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Pro: A new, and completely different challenge for students to take part in. Allowing them to explore new concepts, and areas of study.

Con: The problem with a water game is unless you build the tank out of translucent material, it is very unappealing for the crowd. Thus it makes it much worse when you are showing the field to potential sponsors and the crowd itself.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

ditto...

there is a water game called MATE.... people who want a water game should ask their team leads to drop out of FIRST for a year, and do MATE...than choose if they want to do one or the other or even both in the future... that should get water out of many people's systems.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

There is also NURC put on by APASE
www.h2orobots.org

We have both land and water based robots for 5 years....can't get it out of our system. We did MATE for three of them, couldn't get enough so we made our own. Let me know if you have a cure........

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Pros: no one will be thirsty
Cons: water and electronics dont go together that well

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

The Pros of such a game would be increased thinking, and more creative designs.


The cons are obvious. One of which would be the transformation of all the regional arenas into "water arenas". I don't think that would go over to well with DU replacing their Ice Ring with water.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Pro: No longer driving, you're flying: three dimensional field
Can be cheap: http://nventivity.com/ROVIAB.html

Con: Finding a team to compete against

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Maybe we can use Sea world for a venue!

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

That would be awesome! :cool:
I've never been there and we get to show off robots that swim. And the robots might later be able to swim with animals too. (This is for all you enviromentalists out there.):)

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Thank you for your posts with your pros and cons!

I tend to try to make order out of chaos. When posts are made about a water game, the suggestion is made but there is usually nothing of any substance to follow that suggestion. It has happened enough times that I wanted to try to get a better grasp of it. My initial thinking is that one cannot move from the land robots to water robots just like that. Experience and opinions have been shared in this thread and I think they have been beneficial in helping us understand the similarities and the differences regarding a water game.

One area that has not been talked about and I wonder about is suppliers. Would that change? If yes, how would that impact? What are those pros and cons as we know FIRST now?

Yes, there are other programs as has been discussed in this thread. What I would like to understand is that if a water game can be done, I don't think it is just that simple. When one makes a suggestion, he/she should try to look at the whole picture as much as he/she can see and then research and learn more about it. I think it goes further than a venue change.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

well for a practice field, you can always use a pool... for the warmer states thats easy, but for the colder states there are plenty of indoor pools around

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Being from Wisconsin, our team couldnt use an outdoor pool in the winter. It would also be difficult around here to find an indoor pool. Most times, the pools are in use, or the pool owners dont wand a "big electronic box" floating in their pool.
PRO: very interesting game, with a large emphasis on strategy.

CON: hard to find a test field
What would they do with all the water that splashes out of the field, and would they refill it??

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Assuming that you somehow overcame the challenge of setting up the pool/field, if the competition was still two alliances of three bots, it seems like they'd interfere a lot with one another. Bots would have to have bumpers all over, because they'd all be travelling in three dimendions rather than moving on the plane of a non-aquatic field.
After two minutes of six bots propelling themselves around in a pool about the size of a regular field, there'd probably be waves to contend with -possibly enough to tip over a less stable floating bot.
The aquatic robots would probably work like either boats or submarines, and with a random combination of both on the field, the designers of the game would have to be careful with the rules. Would it be okay for an underwater robot to accidentally or intentionally capsize a floating one?
Maybe lifting the other bots out of the water would be the end game challenge.

Pros:
- we'd learn underwater electical design, in six weeks
-creative thinking to overcome the logistical challenge of finding a practice field
-everyone who's ever speculated about a water game would be able to say a giant 'i told you it would happen someday!'

Cons: all of the above... plus it would be dificult to enforce gracious professionalism on the field, and any damage to the bots during the game would be harder than it already is to repair.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

I am so glad you asked that! There would be a whole new range of suppliers. There are many ocean engineering companies, oil industry and deep sea exploration as well as many research based oceanography institutes.
Here is a link on the MATE website that shows just some of the companies involved in the marine technologies.
http://www.marinetech.org/rov_compet...8/sponsors.php
When we contact some of them they are very willing to help us out, they are not saturated. Even though there is MATE and NURC events out there, it is no where near what FIRST is.

Thanks for bringing this thread up! I think the biggest obstacle is people overcoming their comfort zone and paradigm of what FIRST is. We do underwater robotics and we don't have nearly the support and connection as some of the FIRST teams have with their sponsors, yet we still find a way because we are not afraid. The FIRST model works well outside FIRST if you just give it chance. Doing the impossible, with not enough time, resources or money. With this attitude, we can make FIRST work in any environment in any venue and not let naysayers stop us. There is a quote, I don't know who said it, but it is great. "Those who say it can't be done, should get out of the way of those that are doing it!"
Take care Jane!!

Are you thinking about Joining us in June for the NURC competition?
www.h2orobots.org

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Pros: A chance for a different experience than we are used to with FIRST (and really, what other robotics program would have multiple independently designed robots working together in alliances... underwater)

Cons: My team has already decided any water game should be solved with a bottom crawling sinking robot... with wheels. :(

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

It isn't that easy, even in Southern California. Pools big enough to use as a test area tend to be in public gyms and the like--not exactly optimal placement.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Fredi -

Honestly, I had not thought about it but now that you mention it :) - I will.
If I can not make it out this year, I will definitely mark my calendar for next. It would be great to see everything involved and learn about it.

Thank you for providing insight and information in this thread.
Jane

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

You don't necessarily need one that big. The NERDS tested their bot in the neighbors tiny pool which was barely eight feet deep in the middle.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

We have video archived all of last years missions and we will do so again this year.
http://www.h2orobots.org/teammissionvideos.htm
We will be expecting you the following year!
The video broadcasts will also be live via the web. I will send you a reminder when it gets close.

We have technical manuals for you to see too
http://www.h2orobots.org/samplereports.htm
and
http://www.h2orobots.org/teamtechreports.htm

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Here is the itunes site at ASU that has archived the missions from last year. The two best to see are the NERDS and Falcon Robotics, they had the best lighting. Other teams are on a learning curve and will be there this year much improved.
http://tinyurl.com/26odq3
The mission was done in total darkness to make it harder. Daylight was too easy. We also learned how to make it more spectator friendly, this year props will be lighted up! See the 2008 site
at www.h2orobots.org

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

I can think of ONE pool deeper than six feet nearby--and somehow I don't think the city that owns it would like us using it. Even a six-footer is difficult to come by.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

We did go to the city pool a couple times to test the robot in their diving pool, just asked the manager for permission and it wasn't a big deal to go around dinner time when the diving pool was closed, but the main pool was open for a special excersize event (or something like that).

They seemed eager to help out the robotics team!

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Well, Laaba I think you're right about the "big electronic box" bit. I don't think anyone would.:p As for the pool refilling technique, they'd probably go Jacuzzi style, with jets coming out of the sides and bottom.

Yeah, Kiwi. The damage factor could be make or break for teams. After all, if one ungrounded bot with a lose wire comes in contact with water. ZAP, and all of the teams are finished.:( ;)

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

I don't understand how this would happen, could you please explain it further?

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Well, if the water comes in contact with a loose electrical connection (and my understanding of 'water conducts electricity' is correct) then the whole pool would become momentarily charged and if the other robots come into contact with the charged water (and they aren't insulated) they would be caught in a power surge which (to my understanding) would cause the circuits to overload and become unresponsive. Wouldn't it?
Can anyone tell me if this theory is correct?:confused:

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

I think you might be making an unstated assumption, which is that the robots are plugged into a wall outlet. That is not the case...the robots are powered by batteries.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

I think a game with the playing field filled with spaghetti and sauce would be vastly more entertaining. I wonder if there's a difference in the coefficient of friction between marinara and meat sauce?

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Just so you guys know, you are talking hypothetical. I can let you know that most people don't have a problem letting ROVs in their pool.

For the surface controls like tv monitors and such, you can use battery power and fuses. Also if you use an outlet, it must be a GFCI and that would alleviate any problems.

The rovs are also battery powered and fused. Plus even if it did, the pool is so large that the charge that an ROV would be able to provide would be insignificant due to the volume of water. In any event the fuse should blow. We have done this for years and have yet to see anything close to what you are describing. In fact, not at all.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Well a water game doesnt necessarily have to be one underwater. The water game could take place on the surface of the water and not underneath it. So it would be more like sailing boats(so essentially 2d motion instead of 3d as some of you have said), and it would pretty much be the same exact thing we have done for previous years, only on water.

Also, if the game were to be played on the surface, you wouldn't need a large amount of protection for electrical components. Just a few thoughts there

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Thank you.:) Wasn't quite sure.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Here is a few nice Pros for you:

The volunteers could play in the pools every match and wouldn't be so hot like we get during the day.

The team members get to climb in and out of the pool

Volunteers and team members could be wearing swim suits:yikes:

Cons:

Water would be everywhere in the venue

Volunteers would have to be in swim suits:mad:

I am to tired to think of more so thats all for now!:D

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

con : IF the robot dies then how you get it out of the water for fast and easy matches.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Pull it out with the tether! ;)

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Pro -

- It would be something different for many of the teams to try

- Almost every team will start out with pretty much the same level of expertise - for some of the long-term mentors and engineers, it will be like starting in the FIRST program all over again, as they get to discover how much they know (and don't know) as they work in a new environment (personally, this aspect alone sounds like so much fun I almost don't need any other reason to want to try a water-based game)

- Water and the existing FRC control system co-exist quite happily, no matter what the "theorists" that have no actual empirical data may tell you (we have known this since at least the summer of 2000)

- Water could be a game factor in many, many ways - not all of them involve AUV-class devices

- New opportunities for previously-impractical robot designs and mobility technologies

- Opportunities to learn about sonar, acoustic range finders, and long-band optical communications

- Everyone gets to be SCUBA certified

- Woodie Flowers is joined by Jacques Cousteau Jr at the kick-off events

- We never have to worry if any of the robots catch on fire

- Designing and building a water-compatible robotic system is no more difficult than a mobile terrain-based robot - it is just different. The technologies are not what many teams may currently be used to, but they are no more esoteric, complex or difficult than anything that the teams are using now.

- If the game domain does dive below the surface (ha!) then the potential for a real three-dimensional arena is a wonderful opportunity

- Inexpensive acoustic positioning systems make underwater localization in a small environment a trivial problem (e.g. 3DAPS has been around for over 15 years)

- Software doesn't mind hydration - zeros and ones underwater work exactly the same way as zeros and ones on dry-land

- All the robots get to have little pirate flags on them, and we can all wear eye patches and swagger around going "yo-ho-ho me hardies!"

- Water (on it or under it) is a much more forgiving environment than that for aerial robotics

- Different and new vendors and sponsors could become involved in the FIRST program, enabling the FIRST philosophy to be spread further throughout our communities

- The competition arena would be LESS expensive to build than the current competition fields (yes, I am sure about this - a 12 x 24 x 4 foot temporary above ground pool currently goes for as little as $800 and you can get a 24 x 48 foot one for about $3000 - compare that with the cost of a typical complete FRC competition field from that past several years)

- The referees get to wear cute striped bathing caps



Con -

- After the 2008 game, there won't be any challenge left to it





-dave




p.s. I was also going to add a bullet that said "Andy Baker in a swim suit" but decided against it. You get to figure out if it was going to go in the "Pro" or "Con" column... :)

.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

OH MY GOD ITS A WATER GAME. DAVE SAID SO.

OMG

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Don't make fun of the bottom crawling robot with wheels. It's a solid idea.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Crab drive?

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

No, it's just a robot that sinks to the bottom of the pool and drives around on the bottom.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Crab drive? oh....that was a joke :)

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Yup, it cracked me up.

Re: An Exercise: Pros and Cons Of A Water Game
 

Thank you Dave for adding your pros and con. I especially like the fact that you found out the field was not more expensive! Also thank you for not bringing up speedos for the refs!