2008 Documentation
 

OK, we have sections 0 to 5 downloaded. When do the encrypted sections usually get released? Not too many days to go until Kickoff!

When were the 2007 encrypts released?

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

According to the E-mail Blast Archive, the six sections of the manual (Introduction, Arena, Game, Robot, Tournament, and Kit of Parts) were released at 5 PM EST on January 3, 2007 (the Wednesday before Kickoff).

EDIT: The 2006 encrypted sections of the manual were posted on January 6, the Friday before kickoff, while the 2005 and 2004 encrypted sections were posted on the Thursday before kickoff.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

I am the alternate contact for my team and usually receive all of the FIRST email blasts - haven't seen anything yet. Let's hope they repeat last year's timing and make the encrypted versions available today - many are traveling tomorrow and Friday.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Maybe they are going to go old school and include a CD (scratch that, more like a flash drive) and a hard copy of the Manual in every kit again this year? :D

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Not being posted until AFTER Kick Off......I am 99% sure I saw it in an email blast no too long ago.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

That's what the website says also. I thought it might be a typo :ahh:

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

This season, the FIRST website has handled the traffic of registration well. Maybe they're confident the site can deal with the spike of traffic after kick-off?

...or maybe something has fundamentally changed about the structure of the manual that might tip their hand?

...or maybe there's an unusually short time between the holiday and kick off this year and we're all anxious to get started. :)

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Now there's an intriguing possibility.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

.....things that make you go hmmmmmmmm.....

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc...t.aspx?id=7494 "The remaining game-related sections will be encrypted and available for download on January 5th, 2008, after the Kickoff."

I'm not sure why they would be encrypted if they are not releasing them until after kickoff... but maybe I'm misreading it.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Perhaps you need the IR board to read them :D

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

FIRST has their reasons, but I must say this is gonna be an interesting race to download before traffic gets too heavy...

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

If they were concerned about the document structure revealing something, they could provide an encrypted ZIP file or something. Or a very massive multi-section PDF. While their servers did do better this year, I'm not really confident they'll handle that many downloads at one time. Nor would I be happy that teams at local kickoffs without internet access would be deprived of a complete manual to glance over before touring the field. So I'm hoping this is just a typo or misunderstanding and the encrypted manual will be pre-released per usual.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

I completely agree Kevin. While the kickoff presentation does a great job of giving us an overview of the new challenge it also leaves MANY unanswered questions. And I suspect there will be many people attending kickoffs where they don't have internet access available. A serious waste of travel time back home ...

I would consider it a huge step backwards if the encrypted manual is not released ahead of time.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Would it be ok (as in gracious professionalism), for a team and/or some other website to put up the game manual as soon as it is released, as to lessen the traffic on the FIRST website?

Thanks

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

You'd need a lot of bandwith to be able to do this effectively. If the FIRST site can't handle all the traffic, a team site won't be able to either.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

You'd also need to attain FIRST's approval. And from what I understand, that's not too easy of a task.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

I seem to recall, back in the days when the manual was released at kickoff (no pre-release encrypted) they (FIRST) set up a couple of mirror sites for downloading. That was also before broadband was widespread and most people were using a 48k baud rate modem to download it. It took several hours.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Someone could create a torrent for those initial copies. (and have it widely publicized at kickoffs or something)

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Just two quick comments -

1 - Remember, the FIRST manual is a copyrighted item. As such, you can not re-distribute or re-host it without FIRST's permission. In the past, they have been understandably reluctant to do so, so they can maintain some semblance of version control if the manual should need to be updated.

2 - Since the 2008 FRC Manual is being distributed on etched stone tablets (as all great documents should be), it is taking a little longer to have them prepared than originally anticipated. I am sure that FIRST is making every effort to ensure that each team will receive their tablets at, or shortly after, kick-off. Please make sure you have a clear space at your loading dock when the truck arrives. *


-dave


* Really people, what is everyone getting all in a panic about? As already noted, in prior years the encrypted manuals have not been released until the Thursday or Friday before kick-off. We are not there yet. I think that there is a much higher probability that the statement on the web site is simply a typo or mis-communication than it is that they have suddenly diverted from what has been a successful past practice. Just give it a day or two, and see what happens.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

I was thinking about a Google hosted website such as pages.google.com.
But now that I know that I would need permission, I wonder, if it would be still worth it?

Any opinions?


Please Note: I am not questioning FIRST's capability to host the Manual. The comments above are just my thoughts, and I do not plan to post the manual in an illegal/ ungracious professionalism way. Thank You

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Ditto on the torrent idea. Posting a tracker link prominently here on CD would certainly lessen the load on FIRST. We should see what Brandon thinks about doing this and making it an Announcement on the portal. Probably with a lot of caveats about it being an unofficial thing, use at your own risk, double check with FRC when the load dies down, etc. I imagine FIRST's concerns about mirrors are copyright and security driven. Security meaning paranoia about someone purposefully or accidentally corrupting the manual in a way that could mislead teams. Of course, FIRST corporate could solve all these problems by seeding their own torrent of the file and providing a link on the FIRST webpage to MD5 hashes of the official manuals. They could even give out TinyURL direct links to both files in the kickoff presentation to further lighten the load.

Honestly, I hope FIRST looks into this sort of solution some time soon here. The problem's only going to get worse as time goes on, and even with pre-released encrypted files, teams still want to grab unencrypted versions. If you don't start looking for distributed solutions like this, you'll just end up renting more and more bandwidth to handle the brief spurt of kick-off mania.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Does this mean you've finally managed to simplify things to ten, simple rules?

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

10 simple (yet overwhelmingly misinterpreted) rules for 2008?
I'm sure that's possible. :p

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Are they written by the finger of God?
Cool! I always believed He had a connection to FIRST.:yikes:

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

As a response to your first comment Dave, version control does not matter for the first few hours for the most part. The big changes happen after a couple of hours when the Q&A's get filled up and people actually show copies of the rule books to their lawyers [both self proclaimed and professional]. At least for the first few hours FIRST should either upload a .torrent of the manual or let somebody do it themselves and take it down as soon as the first revision is made.

Pavan.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Well it looks like I'm going to be carrying the manual into the shop this year.

Now more serious, we don't need to be worrying about if its going to come out early. I'm not worried, at least not until Friday night at 9:30. They will release it when they feel its the right time, hopefully with the rules being worded as clearly as possibly for as little confusion over the rules. I'm more excited about seeing the game and then looking at the manual.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Because we are bored, duh!!!



No but I hear Andy Baker has access to his notary stamp

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Ahem.

See!


-dave



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Re: 2008 Documentation
 

The Israeli teams are anxiously awaiting the arrival of the stone tablets.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

In Dave We Trust :)

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

My little brother was just reading over my shoulder and asked me what I was reading. I told him about the encrypted manual. At first he was intrigued and asked me if the challenge was to see who can crack the encryption first. When I told him that we are not supposed to crack it, and that the code will be released with the unencrypted manual he asked, "What’s the point then?"

So much for my excitement about the encrypted manual;

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

They may as well get those at least, since they aren't getting the IR boards early. :rolleyes:

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

So... you just ended a serious post with your trademark large space followed by a period combo traditionally meant for only half-serious posts??
That's very odd. :eek:

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

That set of special spaces and concluding termination is included in all my posts - serious or otherwise.

-dave

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Except this one. I ought to see about getting Big Mike so squeeze the game out of you.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

'.'s are so old school, you could just leave a large amount of white space. Unless it means something. Maybe the extra termination is because Dave is a Terminator sent back in time to prepare humanity for our future robot overlords.:eek: Or maybe he is just an evil genius... or just plain sadistic... we'll never know for sure.... however, I, for one, welcome our future robot overlords.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Any possibility that the manuals will be automatically loaded and updated in PTC Windchill? There already is a folder in the Project structure. Will it be populated by PTC or are the teams expected to do this themselves?

Automatically populating Windchill with the Game Manual would make a lot of sense for version control, history, distribution, etc.

Of course, not all (and perhaps not many) teams are planning to use Windchill - wouldn't this be a great motivation to do so?

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

That's a great story, Anish!
Little brothers can be so cool.

Jane

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Already commented in the Hints thread, but that'll be drowned out in a matter of minutes. Has anyone else noticed this file isn't RC4 encrypted as FIRST claims, but AES encrypted and thus a fair bit more difficult for people avoiding Adobe products to open? I don't suppose anyone has a lead on free batch PDF decrypting software, as I was hoping to just decrypt all the files and pass them out on CDs to my students during kickoff, and I'm not relishing the thought of 50 some odd clicks in acrobat to do so.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Now if only we had access to a large Google MapReduce cluster we could crack the encryption on the manual before Atlanta.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Or we just learn to have patience and wait for two days. ;)

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Here is the link:

http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc...nt.aspx?id=452

Good luck to all teams!!!

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

Bah, not as much fun

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

I doubt that Windchill is setup this way. If you click on their folder for manuals it opens the FIRST web site. All it really does is redirect you.

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

They're up!

Re: 2008 Documentation
 

We tried. But we could only approximate, and not completely emulate, omnipotence. We were able to crunch it down to eleven rules, but had to stop there.


-dave

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