Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

ha^ i have one in my attic...may need to pull it out :yikes:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

i don't know if someone already stated this but "vet" could mean Veterans stadium in Philadelphia which is completely circular.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Possibly. The capitalization might make that more likely.

Side note: time to 100 posts: 3 hours and a quarter. Ouch.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

it would be hard to triangulate with that ir sensor...nearly impossible for FIRST...it would essentially be like finding GPS coordinates on the field with 4 different points...long story short, it's wayyyy too complex for FIRST...way too many interrupys and floating-point math...

i still say another FIRST frenzy....the ir from 04, the tetra from 05, the vet( war veteran, shooting) from 06, and maybe some large square structure that we have to shoot into targets in the middle (the coordinates hint, 07 game)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Vet hurdling FIRST tetra

This clue could indicate an end game autonomous period. In this case, "Vet" would indicate a robot that has completed gameplay, trying to overcome obstacles (hurdling), to get to one of four designated locations (tetra) on the field. The exact locations would somehow be revealed after joystick control has completed.

Yay GDC!! We FINALLY get end game autonomous!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

on the note of tetra... did anyone ever try putting casters on to the tall goal??thats right triple plays gone mobile!! oooh the possibilities:rolleyes:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

I think the clue means that the GDC has revisited this "flop" of an autonomous mode. The game will have randomly positioned pieces for robots to locate and score during autonomous mode, like the vision tetras from Triple Play. This will give the veteran teams another chance to overcome (hurdle) what they couldn't do in 2005 (score the visions tetra)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Actually, Veterans Stadium no longer exists. It was demolished a couple years ago.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

How often has the GDC reused games, or major game elements, like the tetra?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Well last year's tubes were very similar (almost the same) to torroids used back in the late 90's. Balls have been used numerous times.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

While Will was being a bit flippant, I think it does deserve some scrutiny - could this hint in fact be regarding the human players? We've been techno-athletes for a while; this game may bring about a more physically athletic aspect of the HP.

Thoughts on an end-game autonomous: While a great challenge, I think it would be too much of a hazard for teams. With a game featuring an autonomous at the start, if a team wishes not to compete, the robot can stay stationary and (relatively) out of harm's way. With the random (and sometimes intertwined) configurations, positions, and orientations robots have when they come to rest, I would think damage to the bots could be a large issue.

Perhaps the field could be split in two parts - a teleoperated area and an autonomous area, divided by an obstacle. Once robots cross the threshold, their radios are disabled and they must navigate on their own until they exit.

One more thought considering 4v4 or 2v2v2v2 and space requirements: There's no rule in FIRST that says the dimensions must be 38" X 28" X 72" - we learned this in 07 with the height/weight requirements. Smaller robots would yield more per game without too much in the way of traffic hazards (especially with traffic cones :yikes: ), assuming the field is largely uncluttered with elements a la Rack n Roll.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

The GDC has never reused an entire game. 2004 was a mash up of elements from several past games:
Mobile goals: Similar to those used in 2002
Stationary goals: Similar to the mobile goals used in 2001
Hang Bar: An end-game element from 2000

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

What if FIRST was not capitalized as an acronym, but instead was used as emphasis?

So that means Vet (whatever that is) has to get around the leading tetra-thing-whatever as opposed to slamming into it or something?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

TETRA = TErrestrial TRunked RAdio
FIRST = Flexible Infrared Search & Track
:D

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Check out the ANAGRAM possibilities???

Farsighted Tilt Turn Rev

Divergent Raft Rush Tilt

Arthritis Drug Left Vent


Who knows????????

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

That actually sounds like a lot of fun. Unfortunately, you couldn't stack very high unless you either held the goal very securely stationary, held the stack securely (like the good stackers in 2003), or you could put a detachable 'cap' on top (like in 97). Maybe zones to push the goals into too? Triple Play + Toroid Terror + Stack Attack + Zone Zeal = pretty neat in my opinion.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

thats what im saying!! it would be sweet!!! mybe add a se-saw in there some where and we got ourselves a game!!!:D

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

And then a pool of water or an ice sheet, just to make it even more fun!:D :D

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

haha^ how about just play in a pool, put the goal on an inner tube, and make some boat bots!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Okay, let me know if this has been thought of already. (haven't read all the posts) What if 'Vet' was in another language (actually I don't think they'd do that so close to the Kickoff) or maybe the whole army meaning of 'Vet' means war...war means guns...Robotic Nerd gun anyone?:D (Reminds me of Aim High)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

I think you mean Nerf gun... a nerd gun would be when the programmer sticks their head into the Aim High shooter to watch their control loop in action up close...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Could be something like:

Hurdling implies to me that we are jumping or skipping a task. So if veteran teams were to skip triple play, the next game would have been Aim High. I don't have a clue as to what the vets have to do with anything but that was my interpretation. Or what was the 5th game. Skipping the 4th game would mean the 5th game would be next.

5th game was hexagon havoc. Vet hurdling FIRST tetra. The fourth game was ramp n roll. Vets hurdling ramp n roll. Veterans skipping ramp n roll. Veterans jumping over ramp n roll... jumping off of a ramp... any ideas? just some thoughts.

Hurdling could be worded as a redo. What if they are combining FIRST's first four games... That would be Maize Craze, Rug Race, Tower Power, and Ramp n Roll. I don't even know where to start with that one. I know nothing about any game before 01.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

tetra - four groups

Vet hurdling FIRST tetra -

First 4 games?

http://www.usfirst.org/who/content.a...80#frc_history

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

oops thanks I was typing pretty fast *snort**lol* yeah that would be a Nerd gun wouldn't it?:)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

These guys do

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

*Maybe it means veteran teams/players have to "get over" (stop whining about) the tetra game and figure out another solution.

*Maybe a robot has to be lifted over another one, think of the hurdling action

* Leap frog with Tetras

*Maybe it means the game will be like the one after the tetra game so something like aim high


Eh just thought my thoughts could help :D

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

here is what i have so far from the anagram

1. Tilt Further drive Angst :mad:

2. Tight Turn Reveals Drift :eek:

3 .Turn left drive Straight :D

the third one implies a maze, where one always goes either left or straight.

jerry w

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

This is what wiki says about VET
I think that the IR senors will be used to "vet" a robot before it can either throw, or climb some where.

The "FIRST tetra," I think refers to alliances of three or a return to triangles as a game piece and/ or goal.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

You know, I really think somethings wrong with us when we have 130 replies in 5 and a quarter hours...since that's a rate of a post every 2.5 minutes...we're only kinda nuts, eh?

Speaking of which, since I have a Mac, does anyone know how to decrypt encrypted files in Preview? Particularly when Preview says that they're not encrypted? -:confused:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

check out the verb definition of vet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vet

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

I like this idea and think you are on to something. I think it is more than just a typo. I dont remember the exact words, but Dave said something along the lines of They have the answers right in front of them, but dont believe it because it doesnt fir with their ideas. Not a direct quote, sorry I dont remember where I saw it. the s in gameS hint # 2 and 3 has gone unnoticed until this post, and could be a huge part. In case you didnt notice the IR sensor just says Game Hint #1, no S after game. :ahh: This may imply that the IR sensor will be used at all times during the game, while you need to choose game to play. Or the IR sensor may tell you what game to play, so you must have robots that can manipulate different shapes, or to do different things with the same shapes

Edit: Sorry the quote I wanted didnt copy. what DanDon noticed was that when you go to the decrypted hints. It says
Games hint #2 and Games hint #3.
notice the S in games

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Hurdles will usually fall flat and stay there if hit hard enough. However, if you just bump the hurdle it will most likely return to its upright position. When this happens the hurdle has almost a teetor-totter effort. Maybe this has something to do with the counter weights or ramp systems that were mentioned before.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Im pretty sure you can get acrobat reader for mac
try this
http://www.adobe.com/products/acroba...lversions.html

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

The first thing that strikes me is the fact that the word 'vet' ("to vet was originally a horse-racing term") and hurdling and tetras are related through horses, what this means I have no idea. The second thing is that 'vetting' could relate to the pseudo-hint about stocks, jello, and k'nex: "Vetting can refer to the process of analyzing stocks, bonds, and any other securities and financial instruments before committing money." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vetting

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Unfortunately, it's a Mac that the school gives out and I can't install anything. If you know any way to decrypt files in Preview, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks anyways though.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

well after saying i wouldnt get involved in this madness, here we go

Copley square
....................... Finish line of the Boston Marathon courtesy of Alex Burman
....................... Tortoise and the Hare statues
....................... The track on the top of the building near hint 2
....................... Vet is a horse racing term of some sort... look it up, im too lazy to
.......................IR sensors are used in Ski races and things of that nature



Ladies and Gentlemen, we're off to the races...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

That's pretty comprehensive, but remember we have an IR camera, we do all of that in Autonomous. Then we start the real games. (but Autonomous will be emphasized more than ever before, at least, if the camera is easy as they say it is to program)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Hey people don't you think it is werid that in the two thousand and four FIRSTthe robots a had to lift itself up on to a hurdle like object. Where the vet comes in im not sure yet.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

I wouldn't bet on it. Speed will lead to collisions, which will increase the overall amount of disabeld bots across the board. I don't think the GRC would have us racing just yet.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Depending on how old it is (seeing that its from your school it could be a bit outdated), preview will just show the PDF blanked out by a red background and a text box to input the decryption key... It works fine for me.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Care to explain 2001 to me then? Yeah...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Or 2002, remember Beatty getting smashed? or 2003, the hellish battle for the middle... 06 had a bit of shoving as well...

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

nothing wrong with a little robot-robot action.... now only if they would let us have wedges back :p

(I can dream can't I??)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

I was saying the racing bit, but yeah, that works too!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

The definition of end game is pretty much a race. Especially in 03, 05, 06, and 07

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Bet we see tetra's, squares & circles(balls) out on the field. IR signals will tell us which where they have to go. Need to think of designs for multiple different objects .........agggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Interesting Anagrams keeping FIRST together.....

First Dangle Rivet(Tightly Held) Truth

First Granted Evil Truth (Water Game)

First Advent Ruler Tight

First Tundra Lever Tight

First Relevant Dig Truth

First Gauntlet Third Rev

A divergent truth flirts

This Link is REALLY cool, The Anagram Hall Of Fame

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

In an earlier thread, people were talking about temporary IR walls. Look at the Middle English definition for hurdle... :yikes:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Maybe we can divine this year's competition by looking at hints of past years:
Triple Play involved stacking giant tetrahedrons in a game of tic-tac-toe. I wasn't involved back then, so I don't really know that much.

Aim High involved launching foam balls (meatballs?) at targets, represented with green lights ("Montana's green heights"). The shovel could refer either to a robot shoving balls into the lower goals or to ball-collection device.

The game involved placing inflatable tubes on long "spider-legs," each of which ended with one of the pictured circles representing the column.

Anyone see a pattern here?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

I think clue number two is a metaphor for something to do with navigation.


So I think we will have something with three sides (v-e-t) three letter word. numbers. (tetra) tree sided object. Three numbers (clue #2)


...maybe throw a three sided object over hurdles... while using navigation.....

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

In 2006, I thought autonomous was worth too much. The outcome of matches could be determined a lot from it, especially if there was a great disparity between teams.
2007 was much better in being important, but not letting teams get blown away in the beginning.
2005 was worthless during autonomous mode in trying to get the vision tetras which very little no. of teams could do and had very little effect towards the outcome of matches. I went to a regional where I didnt see it scored at all for the entire weekend.

I'd bet that autonomous would be similar to that of 2007 last year. Just right.
I'd also bet that some kind of bonus scoring will happen at the end of matches which could affect outcomes of matches much like 2007 again.
Every year had a new twist. 2007 had robots stacking on each other (which was never done before). I hope to see one day where the human player has as much as an important role as the drivers of the robot. That would be a twist I think many have not considered.

And finally, I dont think the game hints in the past were of much use. Using 2006 and 07 as examples, it did very little to help teams get a headstart in brainstorming ideas ahead of build season leading to building a better robot. Thus I ask, "Should game hints be more easily solved and helpful for teams prior to build season?" Only time will tell this 2008 season.
We look at the clues as amusement purposes only. :D :D :D

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

I dont know if this has been established, but a tetra is also a fish. If you search "tetra" in google images you will find a bunch of pictures of fish

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

150 replies, and I'm surprised no one has come up with this. The Vet takes care of the gerbils between matches, of course.

Seriously, whoever noticed the wording "Games Hint" may be on to something. That corresponds with Dave's "For the two" signature.

Edit - where did "Games Hint" appear? On the FIRST site (which only has #2 up) it says "Game".

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

What, like a RED HERRING?

-brainstorm-

Given the rather obtuse nature of past hints (a shovel's show = Just Shoot Me = firing poof balls), and realizing words do have different meanings, the third hint could very easily be interpreted as "vet" (whatever that is) hurdling (or overcoming) FIRST tetra (or well-placed GDC red herrings). Cut through the garbage, look at the facts, and it's as plain as the nose on your knee.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Steeple chase
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steeple_chase

:)
Pete

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

What does a Vet have that a Non-Vet doesn't have? I think it means "Experience".

Experience using 4 IR signals to race (boston marathon & hurdling references) to a specific location (latitude-longitude clue) and face a specific direction (bearing) in order to "fish for" (tetra, plus - stock up on enough fish and kite shaped fish references from Dave L.) a specific color or shaped game piece - then race & deposit it (score points) before recieving (via 4 code IR) the next color needed - start the process over again. The team with the most correct color/shaped fish wins.

Using magnetic fish (game pieces) is as close to involving water - without actually involving water, as you can get! Brilliant!

Sounds like alot of fun doesn't it?

Mike

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

I also am saying it is an anagram. I applied some filters to the anagram solver to remove words like FIRST, and tetra because assuming we are correct about it being an anagram in the first place those words won't be in it. I was able to cut the number of possible solutions down quite a bit but the one that jumped out at me was this....


Tilt Adverts Furthering


so basically they are saying that either there will be a tilting ramp on the field 2001ish or you should build your robots with a low cg because you will have to climb something and your robot tipping over will prevent you from doing wellBesides I can't be wrong ;-)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

GO FISH! We will finally get a water game. The fish will be various sizes and colors of tetra with different point values. You will have various obstacles to get past or more adventagous places to fish from where only one robot can be at a time. In order to catch a fish you must first have bait, which will be supplied by the human player or you can stock up on during auton and/or get to the best fishing hole. Bait can be passed between alliance partners as well as the catch. You will probably have some kind of limit on the number of tetra you can catch before you can catch any more so that you would have to leave the fishing hole and unload. You will have two places to put your catch in order for it to be counted. One will be a safe place that is further away (home zone) where your catch can not be taken away by the other alliance and one that will be close where the other alliance can steal your catch. Maybe you will need to FIRST get a license to fish, which could count towards points and be done during auton so that you can start to fish right away during teleopperated instead of getting licensed. I you catch a low point tetra you would more than likely put in in the hopper where the other alliance could steal it, if you catch a high point value tetra, you would want to place it where it is safe. The hopper could also be on your robot, but will only count if you get back to your home zone. These are just ramblings and could have many other twist. My two cents...we are going fishing!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

We're so close... Vet = Vetran, Hurdle = Jumps, Tetra is a kind of fish...

I think they're saying we jumped the shark...

In all seriousness though the number 4 is showing up with remarkable regularity. The IR board has 4 programmable outputs. The coordinates pointed to Copley Square. Tetra means 4 (as in four sided polyhedron.) DanDon also pointed out that they used the word gameS (plural) in the clues. I'm wondering if there will be different objectives and the IR board will let the teams know which one is the game at the time. The design of the IR board and the other references to 4 would imply there will be 4 different objectives.

Andy

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

It is not an IR camera, it gives back digital inputs - in other words it tells us that a signal is present not how strong or where.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

I'm going to have to agree with the only statement that has made sense this entire thread:

We are going to re-do the autonomous mode from Tripple Play.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

My brother looked up were the word vet came from. Looking on wikipedia he got:

1. As a noun:-
* An abbreviation for veterinarian or veterinary surgeon, that is, an animal doctor.
* An abbreviation for military veteran in the United States and Canada.
* A nickname for Veterans Stadium in Philadelphia.
* A variant of the Hebrew letter beth (ב).

2. As a verb:-

* to vet was originally a horse-racing term, referring to the requirement that a horse be checked for health and soundness by a veterinarian before being allowed to race. Thus, it has taken the general meaning "to check": "The attorney vetted the documents before using them to make his case"; "The presidential nominee vetted prospected vice-presidential candidates on his short list." See Vetting.

Looking at the vetting link gets:

Broadly, vetting is a process of examination and evaluation. Specifically, vetting often refers to performing a background check on someone before offering them employment. In addition, in intelligence gathering, assets are vetted to determine their usefulness.

Vetting is also a reference to software development. The process of vetting code refers to ensuring a build of software meets a set of very high level requirements before the build is passed to the quality assurance environment for further testing.

Maybe this means that we will have to do more with coding this year. Which could mean that they are changing the autonomous mode length, or making autonomous mode more complex.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

The most well known "veterinarian" was Dr. Doolittle. And Jimmy Doolittle was a famous veteran - a WWII bomber squadron leader who took off from a carrier (over water). A tetra is a tropical fish (once again the veterinarian reference).

We'll have to build flying robots that jump over hurdles to bomb mechanical fish!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

what if on the field there are several scoring boxes with colored lights above them, and our robots have to throw a tetra into the correct box when the same colored light is on.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Mabye we are supposed to vet Dave and the GDC??:D

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

FIRST FRENZY!!!!!!

...anyways about my previous post on determining field position with ir, it could be possible with the 4 inputs, as well as serial communication via the ir transmitters,plus extremely precise timing from the transmitters, also the timing would have to be slowed down...light would travel way too fast to determine position from the field location...GPS, uses the distances from 11 000km up in space...but nonetheless it could be possible...

either that or during auton the ir will transmit whether we have to pick up tetras, cubes, or balls and score them in a giant bin in the middle of the arena.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Could we be looking at a four-vs-four game? :ahh:

The fourth anniversary of the two rovers on Mars, the four IR channels, the "tetra" reference and the quad of Copley Square. "Four's gone wild!!"

This would be good for the regionals that have 60 or more teams...though there are a few regionals (Detroit, Pittsburgh) that have only 32 - 34 teams registered.

As the number of teams in FIRST grows, you might eventually expect to see this - maybe this is the year!

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

U guyz r sheeple. I hav figured it out. Think about it. 4 is apearing evrywhere.
And hurdling is alot liek jumping or bouncing.
And what do vets do? They youthenise puppies.

Thats right. The GDC has gone to far. This years game will be a race to youthenise 4 cute bouncing puppies.

Ihav allready contacted PETA and they will be takeing action.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

I think it's a problem on FIRST's end. Their webpage says they're using RC4 encryption, but Adobe tells me it's actually AES which isn't supported by some versions of Preview, nor Ghostscript, nor most linux viewers. So if the official documents are encrypted the same as this one, there's going to be some people that won't be able to easily view them. I'll at least be annoyed since I'll have to click through acrobat 5 times to save each file unencrypted instead of running a batch file through ghostscript.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

What if vet means like a veteran, like a vet team, instead of a veterinarian? That totally could change what the clue means:ahh:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Triple play's clue explained: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...&postcount=582

Aim High you kinda got untill the shovel's show part then you kinda hit yourself in your face. Shoves Show. Think a little. What kinds of shoves? Spade perhaps? Isn't there an actor named David Spade? David Spade's Show.... which was.... Just Shoot Me. :-P

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Doolittle didn't bomb water or fish--he and his squadron bombed Tokyo, then tried to make it to China. Then they started hitting the water as they ran out of fuel. I'm not sure what Doolittle did after that.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Even though there is only two days left :D and we won't ever know until kickoff :mad: I figure I'll throw my guess into the mix.

1. At either end of the field there will be a "field goal" like setup with a net to catch balls shot into it by robots (a la Aim High)

--RATIONALE--

Clue #2, The coordinates point to copley squeare, the bearing between two obelisks (the field goal posts) and then to the Globe Cafe

2. At each corner of the field there will be a bin for depositing square blocks (possilbly shaped like K'NEX bricks).

--RATIONALE--

Clue #2 again, Copley Square and the other numerous references to other games involving boxes, too numerous to list (Stack Attack etc.)

3. An end game autonomous that has 3, possibly 4 of the center goals from Triple Play and IR emitters on each one. At the end of teleoperated , the IR of the goal that will actually count will start emmitting (tetra could be picked up prior to endgame) and if a robot gets the tetra on that goal, major bonus points.

--RATIONALE--

Clue #1, well we have to use that IR board for something, just because it has four channels doesn't mean we use them all.
Clue #3, I agree that it could mean vet teams having to finally beat the triple play challenge (man I hated that game) and I also like the idea of a single "bonus" tetra.

4. 2v2 play again

--RATIONALE--

Dave's signature, for the two, this season is for you. I believe this could refer to the past games where it was 2v2 play.

5. Periods in which certain game pieces can be scored will be indicated by solid or flashing red/blue lights (Aim High only one team can score periods maybe?).

--RATIONALE--

Clue 2 Hancock Tower reference.


99.9% chance I'm totally wrong, .01% chance that any part(s) is right. Guess we'll know on Saturday. (must... go... to... sleep.. but.... too... excited..)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

I have to agree. We won't know but it is to tempting to think we might know before the game is released to ignore the hints!:ahh:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

I'm going to combine some hints here, and take a random guess.

Clue 3:
Vet hurdled FIRST tetra:

Kevin Watson is a Veteran FIRSTer. (And hopefully he's also a good sport in case the following predictions I state here are way off. lol :yikes: )

A hurdle is a problem one can overcome, and make out better in the end because of it.

A FIRST tetra kinda looks like an ominous shark fin peering above the playing field's surface.


Clue 2:

Copley Square, leads to:
John Singleton Copley.

He was the artist for (among other things) a painting called Watson & The Shark.
It was a scene about a boy swimming in a harbor, and who suffered multiple attacks by a single shark. The crew from the boat he was serving on fought off the shark, & even though he was injured whtn the shark took off his leg, he made a full recovery and overcame adversity to lead a full life as a mayor among other things.

One cool fact about sharks is that they are mildly homeothermic, or able to maintain their body temperature above the surrounding environment, which leads right into the characteristic of Clue 1.


Clue 1: IR Sensor basically equals a Heat sensor.



Ok... so... to tie all these things together, I'm guessing there will be an element on the field (or all over the field for that matter to make things even harder) in the shape of a shark fin, or beacon (or even a modified tetra shape) which has a heat source inside, or an IR signal of some kind to avoid while driving around the field to accomplish a task.

What that task is, I'm not sure yet. I working on that theory still.


The whole 3 clue thing has me a little excited, I'm not gonna lie. :D


Clue 1 is a new sensor to be used in some way which is just cool. I'm leaning towards the fact it will go on the robot for above reasons.
(btw, IR sensor first used in FIRST competitions in 2004 - remember that, it's important.)

Clue 2 is a mention of Copley which leads to a Singleton (a game element from 2007)

Clue 3 is blatantly referencing a FIRST tetra which was a game element in 2003.


So.. if we add those numbers of the years in the clues, and divide by the number of clues, we have another link to sharks.

(2004+2003+2007)/3 =
6014 / 3 =
2004.6

Year 2004 was named FIRST Frenzy: Raising The Bar.


Sharks are usually connected with the word Frenzy when they are very active in the water. So... to enlighten all the Water Game proponents... I'd just like to welcome 2008's game:

FIRST Frenzy: Sink Or Swim*. :D




*Or something just as wacky as that, but with the return of the FIRST Frenzy part of the name at least.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Wow, this is my favorite idea so far. Everything fits. My only problem is that I couldn't see the use of magnetic game pieces.

Also, with all this "the number 4" talk, I wonder if we'll get a fourth game hint by saturday.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Yeah, 5 minutes before the video feed starts, just to drive everyone even more crazy.:D :yikes:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

No, I'm sure it will be more likely it will be 5 minutes after the video feed starts to make everyone watching go crazy, not just us folks at the Kickoff in New Hampshire.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

encrypted sections of the 2008 FRC Manual have been posted on the FIRST site

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

"My only problem is that I couldn't see the use of magnetic game pieces" -

joshsmithers - the year tetras were the game pieces, FIRST used magnets strong enough to hold them up inside the end giant scoring tetras - at the start of the match.

What if they had these strong little magnets attached to the top of the "fish" - such that when a team hung their hook (opposing magnet) in the fishing hole/zone, the 2 magnets would be attracted and attach themselves together - allowing the team to "reel in" their catch!

Anyways, that's how I envision being able to "catch" fish in the game that I described. Maybe we have to make "floppie fish" - anyone remember "floppies"!

Mike

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

then the question becomes: how do you get the fish off? the fish would have a much sleeker shape, and so making it difficult to get them off the strong magnet that you've proposed without some form of outside help

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Doing a google search on Dave Lavery tetra, in addition to all the FIRST stuff I found this:

"... an aquatic toxicologist at Tetra Tech Inc., an environmental consulting ... in the Antarctic," said Dave Lavery, NASA's telerobotics program manager. ..."

Hmmmmmmmmmmm..........

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

well, using quite a good bit of many types of metals on the robots, the fish would often stick to the robot in undesirable places, get stuck in the drivetrains, and maybe/possibly cause radio problems. it is an interesting concept and game idea however, and is a realistic possibility.

that would be the challenge, then, wouldn't it?;)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Sounds like something a human player could do?


Magnet idea aside, snaging (hurdling, a snag is a hurdle) fish (tetra) could be released mechanically. Usually when one goes fishing, they are blindly looking for fish. Could the fish be in a big pond (obviously dry) in the middle of the field with raised platforms around it? That would mean that we would have to pick up something lower than the base of the robot, which I believe has never been done before and catching the fish would be random.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Ok off topic here. I read the hint every way that I could and it still didn't make sense.:( But, I had one of my friends read it (with the whole WTF kind of voice)
and it sounded like a newspaper clipping. I don't know if this helps but there you go.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

If it truly is AES instead of RC4, could the RC4 be another part of the hint? Another name for it is ARCFOUR, maybe there are four arcs on the field that we have to race around :yikes:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Hopefully you find this...... On the Email blasts i think it only lists game hint no s, not positive though. If you go do the decryption test you get a screen of all 3 game hints. The first hint however (IR reciever) doesnt have an S making me think that the IR will tell your robot what it needs to do to score. The last 2 hints are listed as gameS hints (Emphasis mine). Notice the S??:ahh:

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

I can conferm that there is no 's'
On the note of the 4 thing, there are 4 channels of O for the IR.
Also Evince Doucument view default viewer for most Linux distros works fine. If you are not able to download and programs on the computere you are using, you can still install Acrobat Reader on a flash drive and use it that way.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

No S in the Email blast? because there definately is one in the decryption test.:confused:
Joey

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Here is the best anagram I could come up with:

Flattering turds thrive

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

I think that it's definately an Anagram of some kind. A program could be written to come up with every possible letter combination, then cross-referenced with Microsoft Word to check for real words, but this would be impractical as the competition is so close.

Another question, if it is an anagram, is if "FIRST" is mereley "FIRST", or if it is expanded to "For Inspiration and Recognition of Standards Technology", which would add a new level of insanity to the anagram. If it is an anagram, then it's far more practical just to wait for the kick-off.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

you mean "For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology" lol....about the fishing stuff and all the races...i really can't see the GDC do something like that....i'm thinking of a more rack 'n roll style game again, maybe with goal posts around the field, different objects rather than tubes, and the ir tells you where to score in autonomous mode or something..

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

FIRST has never supplied us with cardboard boxes. An email was sent out listing what will be in the KOP and the following items are in the KOP.

2 cardboard boxes
36" x 4" x 9"
12" x 16"

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Arefin, those boxes are outer wrapping like the totes. The long one would be Kitbot. I'm not sure about the other.

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

I find it rather interesting that the picture of the IR sensor in the 2008 Decryption Test PDF is just the same image that JoeRoss posted for Game Hint#1......

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

Couldn't the term "Vet" be simply referring to a game piece from a prior year' game? Perhaps such a piece is to be tossed over a structure involving tetra, with the "stock market" (i.e., "crash") being when the thing lands - something to be "careful about" (accurate as to where it lands), if you want to score?

As to Hint#2, are we throwing the thing over a (reasonably small) pool of water?

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

To me, "Vet hurdling FIRST tetra" sounds like a crossword puzzle clue, like "Picture aged sea-captain (3,6)" or "Tired agent welcomed shelter (6)" (both clues from today's The Herald (UK); English crosswords are generally very cryptic, much like GDC clues.)

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

You've got a point there...
That is really wierd..

Re: **FIRST EMAIL**/FRC Game Hint #3
 

OK I did not read through all 11 pages of this so I hope I am not repeating anyone. I do think we figured out the clue (almost :rolleyes: )

If you ju8st take the letters from the sentence you can spell

"infrared lights" and have the following letters left over

v-u-r-e-t-t

Now if I can just figure out what to make of the last letters we will be all set