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-   General Forum (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   2008 Game- Overdrive (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60666)

skimoose 06-01-2008 09:48
Re: 2008 Game- Overdrive
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoX (Post 669248)
I am confused about rule <G36> which states that "HOME STRETCH Height Restriction – ROBOTS in the HOME STRETCH of the opposing
ALLIANCE can not be more than 6 feet tall. A PENALTY will be assigned for each
infraction." This would make it impossible to get your trackball from the overpass (which is 6.5 feet tall!) which runs over the other teams HOME STRETCH, can you please tell me what I am missing here?
This is most likely a game rule error which will be corrected in the game forum soon. Since the game starts with a ball from each alliance on each side of the field a robot MUST be able to reach over 6' to get their own ball off the bridge. Also, the game animation clearly showed that descoring a ball from the bridge was a legal move. Again, robots will need the reach to descore.

I'm sure you'll see a correction in update #1.

If you listened to Woody's game introduction and you think this game is one dimensional, stiffling of creativity, or lacking strategy or defense, you're on the wrong side of fulfillment. Go back and reread the rules and really think about it.

Not to get off topic, but going back to Woody's speech. Did anyone else catch at least a dozen references to myth busting? Could it be that Adam and Jamie (and Tory, Grant & Kari) might grace us with an appearance in Atlanta?!?!? :cool:

Jonathan Norris 06-01-2008 10:36
Re: 2008 Game- Overdrive
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diriye (Post 669629)
You don't get points for putting it over your opponents' overpass, only your own. So, there shouldn't be a need to be over 6ft tall in their homestretch.
One of your alliance's balls will start on the opponents overpass... that could come in handy during the game :p. So yes there is a need to go over 6'.

Hadi379 06-01-2008 10:49
Re: 2008 Game- Overdrive
 
What if the purpose of the 6' height limit in the opposing teams area is intentional? Maybe we aren't supposed to be able to knock down our 2nd track ball for use in the game unless the opposing team knocks it down for us. One strategy could be for one alliance to use one trackball to move around the field, while the the opposing alliance trackball stays where it started. At the end of the match, you knock off the opposing teams trackball from your alliances side, therefore not allowing them to score points by having a track ball on the rails. Does this make sens?

Palbot 06-01-2008 11:20
Re: 2008 Game- Overdrive
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongle (Post 668386)
I just thought of this:
Teams that have the capability to do a lot of driver training (read: can build a practice bot) will probably have a bigger advantage this year. Since it's all about speed and control, teams whose drivers have spent many hours on a robot will have an edge.

Think about it this way: Go try to play a challenging driving game like Forza, GT4, or Live For Speed for an hour, and note your times after an hour. Then continue to play it for 20 hours, and see how much better and versatile you've become. That's the kind of training difference you'd probably see in real life as well. A driver that is very familiar with how his/her robot behaves will have a big advantage going into a race like this.
Remember driving in front of the player stations will be much easier than seeing your robot on the opposite side of the field and trying to avoid those five other robots moving fast. Remember "Speed Kills" Slow but steady may win the race!!!!!

SSMike 06-01-2008 11:36
Re: 2008 Game- Overdrive
 
Is it possible to find the test(s) that the refs will be taking to qualify as a referee? This would be to see what they would call most frequently.

kE7JLM 06-01-2008 12:25
Re: 2008 Game- Overdrive
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Molten (Post 668182)
Could someone post a link to the manual?


Here it is -
http://www.usfirst.org/community/frc...nt.aspx?id=452

Bongle 06-01-2008 12:58
Re: 2008 Game- Overdrive
 
The complaining about a lack of room for innovation doesn't make any sense. A FRC robot from past years probably tops out at 25mph. An electric RC car tops out at 55+mph. Let's call the electric RC car an ideal for a battery-powered teleoperated vehicle. So teams that choose to re-use an old drivetrain will be left with something that can't even do 50% of the ideal.

A 6WD system inherited from past years will be somewhat competitive, but a team that innovates to cut weight and increase handling and speed will probably be able to double the speed of a team just re-using a past drive base.

Quote:
First, they take autonomous mode away and make it "Hybrid" mode, adding essentially limited driver controls to what used to be the programmer's time to shine. Aside from the remote controller, there is no practical use for sensors on the robot, besides standard pot's and such for any manipulators. Any effective autonomous task (ie. race around Track, knock down Trackball) could be easily accomplished with dead reckoning and finding out what position the ball is at via the 4 button remote (I like to call the RoboCoach the "mini-driver"). Although the autonomous mode might be more exciting, it definitely isn't challenging.
I don't have access to the IR board, but my impression was that it was one-directional, so you would only really be able to talk to your robot when it was pointing at you. In order to complete a full lap, the robot would not be pointing at you for a good half of it.

Petey 06-01-2008 13:54
Re: 2008 Game- Overdrive
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hadi379 (Post 669683)
What if the purpose of the 6' height limit in the opposing teams area is intentional? Maybe we aren't supposed to be able to knock down our 2nd track ball for use in the game unless the opposing team knocks it down for us. One strategy could be for one alliance to use one trackball to move around the field, while the the opposing alliance trackball stays where it started. At the end of the match, you knock off the opposing teams trackball from your alliances side, therefore not allowing them to score points by having a track ball on the rails. Does this make sens?
By jove I think he's got it.

artdutra04 06-01-2008 14:18
Re: 2008 Game- Overdrive
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex114 (Post 669491)
Also, contrary to what others have posted about this game reducing the "Drive train arms race" with its lack of defense, I believe it just furthers it. I see no room for innovation in the drivetrain, I don't even see why a 2 speed would be needed. All you need is a high speed, and the more motors in that drivetrain, the better as far as this game is concerned. I remeber seeing drivetrains like 1114's, Simbotics, back in 2004, which had a swivel drive where each individual swivel module was capable of being pnuematically retracted 6 inches upward in order to climb the steps on the field. For the fourth year now, we have an essentially completely flat surface, where teams can just use the kitbot, or even further perfect their 6 wheel design (ie. the "West Coast Drive"), or just rehash any number of other drivetrains used the past 3 years. Just like in the programming aspect of this game, I see no advantage to innovation in the drive systems this year.
The team you are referring to from the 2004 season was Wildstang (111); here's a video of their robot:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...19&postcount=1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drwurm (Post 669497)
A whole summer project of a 4 speed transmission base. It was supposed to be a super edition west coast drive. USE-LESS.
No, it was not.

Every team takes a risk when they prototype ideas over the summer, with the expectation that it may not be possible to use that idea during the next build season. While testing an idea that could make it's way onto a future robot is a clear benefit of summer prototyping, the other clear benefit is the knowledge learned along the way.

Also, what's to say that the opportunity to use that transmission in future robots will not present itself next (2009) FRC season? By prototyping a 4-speed transmission over the summer, you've just added yet another mechanism to your team's arsenal of knowledge for the future.

ccsingle07 06-01-2008 14:27
Re: 2008 Game- Overdrive
 
This years game is just ok :rolleyes: , i has hoping for a more competitive game. The racing is very cool :D , but the balls seem more of an after thought.:]

royal_robotix 06-01-2008 14:37
Re: 2008 Game- Overdrive
 
this game seems a lot more simplistic than last year but its a great game. im really excited for actual gameplay.

Transporter1717 06-01-2008 14:44
Re: 2008 Game- Overdrive
 
i too think that the game is just an ok idea. The balls seem to be an afterthought but it will be exciting to see what teams create to score points with the balls. Something like this would be a good idea if it could somehow be modified to throw trackballs and not beer.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/445498..._refrigerator/

BBnum3 06-01-2008 14:45
Re: 2008 Game- Overdrive
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by artdutra04 (Post 669836)
The team you are referring to from the 2004 season was Wildstang (111); here's a video of their robot:
Actually 1114's robot did what he was talking about. There's a picture of it here.

GBIT 06-01-2008 16:33
Re: 2008 Game- Overdrive
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongle (Post 668300)
My first edition of this post was probably in error.

Edit:A math proof that the ball should dangle far enough below the rails to be bump-able

given a trackball center at (0,0)
given a trackball contact point with a rail at (16,y) (the rails are 32" apart)
given the trackball is 20" and assuming it remains approximately spherical, then...

x^2 + y^2 = r^2
16^2 + y^2 = 400
y^2 = 400 - 256
y = 12

So the contact point for the rails will be 12" below the center of the ball. This means that between the rails, the bottom of the ball should be 8" below them, and thus 2" below the maximum allowed height of a robot in the opponent zone. However, this is in an ideal world where the rails are infinitely thin and the ball is perfectly sperical. Since the rails are 1.5" wide and the ball will deform some, the ball may be slightly higher than where I computed it to be, and the contact space for a robot will be very, very small.
Umm. Hope not too many people used this number because our team found it to be wrong. We noticed the the equation above used numbers assuming the ball was on center with the pipes. this is not true seeing that the ball rests on the top of the pipes. We found the hang to be (assuming the the 6.5' overpass is on center with the pipes) it would hang only 1.5 inches below the 6' legal limit. If the 6.5' is at the bottom of the pipes it would hang only .67 inches from the 6' limit. this is assuming the the ball in of 40" diameter.

the attachment shows this:

Arefin Bari 06-01-2008 16:56
Re: 2008 Game- Overdrive
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keenanmolner (Post 668279)

WHERE ARE THE CIM'S!!!:confused: :eek:
ARE THEY SERIOUS IN NOT GIVING US CIM'S
Can you use ones from last year or can you only use the motors that they give us this year?:ahh:
Calm down.

... before posting here on the forum and go crazy over what's not in the KOP, please please please go through your KOP. You have till Wednesday to tell FIRST what you are missing from the KOP.

Look, also keep in mind that not everyone is going to be happy with the game from this year. Even if you don't like the game, you don't have a choice, you are going to build a robot for "OVERDRIVE." Take it as a challenge, follow the rules and produce a simple/effective machine.


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