Trackballs
 

What types and what retailers carry the balls required for this year's game?

Re: Trackballs
 

Are they like the yellow exercise balls that the FVC used last year?

Re: Trackballs
 

anybody have the FRC trackball specs? diameter anybody? weight?

Re: Trackballs
 

They said the diameter was 40 inches. Don't know about the weight.

Re: Trackballs
 

From the way they looked in the video i don't think they are like the exercise balls. they look like a bladder covered in some sort of cloth. they are also 10 pounds when they're inflated.


Any idea where we can get them?

Re: Trackballs
 

the ball is 40 inches in diameter and weighs in at 10 lbs.

Thats a pretty huge ball...

Re: Trackballs
 

Out of the manual:

The game pieces, known as “TRACKBALLS,” are large balls made of an inflatable plastic bladder and an outer fabric covering. When inflated, each TRACKBALL is approximately 40 inches in diameter, and weighs approximately 10 pounds. Two TRACKBALLS of each alliance color, red and blue, are in the arena during the MATCH. One TRACKBALL of each color will be marked with a set of six-inch diameter white dots so that it may be uniquely identified for tracking purposes during the match.

Re: Trackballs
 

One is supposed to be in the KoP, and I bet you can probably order extras at the same place you could order tubes last year.

Re: Trackballs
 

regarding size and weight, does anyone know if they're similar to the large yellow balls used in either the 2003 or 2004 competition?

Re: Trackballs
 

Just a heads up. We get a trackball in the KOP. Has any one found where to get more yet?

Re: Trackballs
 

they are strikingly similar to the 2004 yellow balls... but i think that those were slightly smaller in diameter, but im not certain

Re: Trackballs
 

the ball included in the kit is a 40" excersise/yoga ball with a separate cloth cover.

Re: Trackballs
 

what kind of needle is needed to inflate the ball included in the KoP???

Re: Trackballs
 

As of right now Logo Loc the company that had the Rack N Roll tubes last year has nothing on their site about Track Balls but if I remember right they didn't have anything up last year until the work week had started. Check back in the next week or so and they may... Also things have been put out by IFI in the past although they may not be this year.
http://logoloc.com/first/index.html

Re: Trackballs
 

If at the beggining of the match during the hybrid period, you knock down a ball of the opposing alliance, who recieves the points?

Re: Trackballs
 

this might not be stander balls that you can get in the store. It was a blatter inside and a canvas skin on the outside.

Re: Trackballs
 

They don't fit through standard doorways...

Great move on FIRST/GDC's part... :rolleyes:

Re: Trackballs
 

Anybody know how to inflate the ball?

Re: Trackballs
 

These are a lot bigger than the "2x" balls in 2004. These trackballs are BIG.
6.3 GAME PIECES
The game pieces, known as “TRACKBALLS,” are large balls made of an inflatable plastic bladder
and an outer fabric covering. When inflated, each TRACKBALL is approximately 40 inches in
diameter, and weighs approximately 10 pounds. Two TRACKBALLS of each alliance color, red and
blue, are in the arena during the MATCH. One TRACKBALL of each color will be marked with a set
of six-inch diameter white dots so that it may be uniquely identified for tracking purposes during the
match.

Re: Trackballs
 

The instructions for inflation are at the bottom of Section 10 Kit of Parts of the manual.

Re: Trackballs
 

Weighed ours in at 8lbs.

Re: Trackballs
 

Ya the rules stated that the balls would weigh approximately 10 pounds so it really all just depends on how much you fill the ball obviously.

Re: Trackballs
 

haha!
We had to used a vacuum cleaner to pump it up. Then it didn't fit through the door way, so we had to let some air out and went to a room that has those huge glass doors to the back yard. Barely fit in mini vans.

Its 40 inches dia
and when we weighted it , it was about 7.14 pounds and 3.25 kg (inflated)

The covering is pretty slippery even for picking up with hands!

that's all I can about it for now.

Re: Trackballs
 

Here is a site that will sell 40" gym balls, but its just the blatter, and i have yet to find a site to get the cloth cover.

Re: Trackballs
 

<G08> All TRACKBALL scores are awarded to the ALLIANCE associated with the scored TRACKBALL, independent of the ROBOT that may have caused the scoring action to occur.

Re: Trackballs
 

the cloth cover shouldn't really "pop". you can always sew it back together or patch it up since airtightness isn't an issue

Re: Trackballs
 

the alliance who's ball was knocked off gets the points.

Re: Trackballs
 

I'm guessing that the weight difference between inflated and not is pretty much negligible. :rolleyes:

Re: Trackballs
 

Hey last time i checked...............ok...............ya air is kind of light, good point.

Re: Trackballs
 

according to my calculations, the mass of the air in the ball is about 1.5 pounds (at stp)... which is actually pretty significant.

either way... any progress on where to purchase the balls yet?

Re: Trackballs
 

I know that additional parts are available at IFI's online store... wouldn't the game pieces be available there?

Re: Trackballs
 

Just give it some time. I'm sure FIRST will point out a carrier if IFI doesn't end up carrying it. Just give it some time. You don't really need a ball for another few weeks yet to be honest. At least until you get prototyping.

Re: Trackballs
 

I'll bet that the FIRST LogoLoc store will be carrying it this year, since they were the distribution channel for all of the tubes last year.

Re: Trackballs
 

Are these the same grade PVC as this year's bladders, or are these more like the '04 2X balls?

Re: Trackballs
 

This question has been answered in this thread. Also, READ THE MANUAL. <G08>

Re: Trackballs
 

FYI, a fully inflated ball will bounce 17' when dropped from a third story balcony :ahh:
I just had to throw this in. Good luck to all.

Re: Trackballs
 

our ball weighed 7.0 pounds before AND after inflation. Our scale is pretty accurate to the tenth digit too (its not a bathroom scale fyi)

Re: Trackballs
 

I'm not sure, I couldn't find anywhere that said it, but I'm still looking

Re: Trackballs
 

1.5 pounds? To clarify, are you trying to tell me that you calculated the weight of about 20 cubic feet of air as being 24 ounces?

That's off by several orders of magnitude. That doesn't even pass the 'reasonable' test.

Don

Re: Trackballs
 

Don,

The answer is quite near correct. actually 22.4 cubic feet of air weighs about 28.8 oz if you assume an 80/20 mix of Nitrogen/Oxygen...

You may wish to clarify or rescind your criticism on this point...

Mike

Re: Trackballs
 

Indeed, Mike - what I foolishly ignored (to my own detriment!) is that while the air inside the ball DOES weigh several ounces, I forgot that it's immersed in air of similar density and composition, so the DIFFERENCE in weight (which is what I was thinking about) is a very small number (accounted for only by the pressure increase above the air outside the ball.)

I apologize to Uberbots for typing before thinking, and humbly thank Mike for pointing out the error.

No matter who you think you are, you can still get trapped by your own mind. If it really matters, ask a colleague for a reality check.

Don :o

Re: Trackballs
 

Does anyone have an estimate of the pressure in a properly inflated ball? 1 atm is about 15 psi. So if the balls are inflated to 15 psi, then the extra air would come out to 1.5 pounds. FIRST's inflation standards are size and not pressure based, so if it takes 10 psi or so to inflate some track balls, then the variances could be fairly significant.

Re: Trackballs
 

I found a site that sells balls similar to the trackball, and the 40" balls themselves cost approximately $60 to $110. The covers for the balls cost $45, and the replaceable inner bladder costs $20.50.

Those numbers are just posted by me as reference, and not to be taken for anything other than reference at this point.

I WILL NOT provide a link to my source until the official source of the balls is made public, so you will just have to trust me on this one.

Re: Trackballs
 

At the kickoff, the balls were inflated to the point that the cloth cover was completely taught with no wrinkles on any of the seams. This is also what the manual says.

When we inflated our ball, everyone thought that it would break well before it reached full inflation. However, the ball reached the proper size without any problems. We were even able to press on it a small amount without it breaking. I've seen a lot of pics on CD lately with people that seem to have under inflated balls. To be blunt, don't be shy about inflating those balls!

Re: Trackballs
 

Also, one more thing should be noted about the balls that is worth some interest.

The zipper head should be under a flap of fabric when you inflate your balls and zip up the outer Red or Blue cover. If it is not, then you did not turn your ball's cover inside out, and put it on correctly.

The ball covers were shipped to you in the "inside-out" position.

Just make sure your zipper is hiding under the flap when it is closed, and you should be golden.

Re: Trackballs
 

To those who were around during the 2004 game:

Do the balls from this year behave in a similar way to the 2004 balls?

Re: Trackballs
 

Less bouncy with 2 layers of different materials acting as a damper, more heavy as well because of that fact.

This is going by memory.
No "official" tests were done by myself to conclude this other than some common sense & interactions with both 3 years apart. lol

Re: Trackballs
 

pretty sure that the opposing team would get points for you knocking down ball or nobody

Re: Trackballs
 

40 inches in diameter, Weight is 10 pounds

Re: Trackballs
 

Does anyone have a "disclosable" source for those balls.

Regards
Frank

Re: Trackballs
 

They are similar. The 2004 (and 2001) era balls were 30", and comparable to what we would call the bladder of the trackball.

Elgin, it's been four years since FIRST Frenzy. :yikes:

Re: Trackballs
 

Yup we need one. I sort of, errr, ruptured ours last night while working.

I think it's time to return to slightly smaller field elements- last years rack couldn't be built anywhere due to space restrictions, and these balls are larger than the standard width of an aisleway! (30" according to ADA).

And they cut very easily if you bounce them into a metal table. Sigh.

Re: Trackballs
 

I called FIRST yesterday and they said they'd release information on buying more either today or tomorrow.

Re: Trackballs
 

Does anyone know where we can order more track balls?:rolleyes:

Re: Trackballs
 

Update 3 does ...

Re: Trackballs
 

Does anyone know the PSI of the trackballs?
I see in update 4 that they weigh about 7.3 pounds, but
one of our mentors wanted to know the PSI.

Carolyn Hinckley

Re: Trackballs
 

PSI doesn't matter. Check Q&A and they'll tell you the same thing. It's the size that matters. I suppose if you really want to know the PSI, you could inflate one to the right size using a pump with a gauge on it and check that.

Re: Trackballs
 

Do you know what they are using to tell the size?
How do we know when it is inflated correctly?

Carolyn Hinckley

Re: Trackballs
 

I don't know what they are using. I would suspect some sort of box, but it may also be "does it look right?" You could ask Q&A--I haven't seen that question yet.

Re: Trackballs
 

I do not understand this from Q&A...


Touching the rack while hurtling

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Are there any limitations on touching or hitting the rack while hurtling?



Re: Touching the rack while hurtling

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Restrictions on contact between the Robot and the Overpass are defined in Rule <G34>.

Restrictions on contact between the Robot and The Rack are much more severe, as they would have to involve reverse time travel.

----------------------------------------

What does this mean?

Re: Trackballs
 

You are looking at a reference to the 2007 game's central scoring structure, the Rack (from Rack and Roll). Hence the reverse time travel. The Overpass has been called the rack by mistake.

Re: Trackballs
 

Take a look at page 11 of section 10 of the manual... not perfect by any means, but a pretty decent guide.

Re: Trackballs
 

This actually came from the 2008 Q&A system.

It was the question and answer.

It was posted on 1-15-08 by team 1350.

Re: Trackballs
 

if you check the manual under 6.3 it says that the trackball is 40" diameter and approximately 10 lbs. but update 4 its states that the trackball actually 7.3 lbs. To inflate the ball check the manual because it has an entire section on inflating the trackball to the right spot.

Re: Trackballs
 

I know. Hence the reverse time travel.

Allow me to explain: in 2007, the scoring structure was known as the "Rack". The 2008 scoring structure is the "Overpass". So, when someone asked about scoring on the rack (thinking of the overpass), the GDC responded that the rules for contacting the Overpass could be found in <G34>. But the rules on contacting the Rack (last year) involve reverse time travel (i.e. traveling back in time and contacting the Rack).

Re: Trackballs
 

That would explain why I did not understand what they meant at all.

Thanks.

Re: Trackballs
 

How do we prevent the balls from popping during the actual competition?

Re: Trackballs
 

You design your robot to not endanger them. Among other things, see rule <R05> regarding sharp corners and edges.