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-   -   Backup Battery (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60717)

seg9585 05-01-2008 20:21
Re: Backup Battery
 
Just because you can't use the CMUcam doesn't mean you can't use your own modified visual system. Either way, telling the bot which to knock off would be based on the human player's signals to the bot. "Hybrid" mode they now call it.

Tomasz Bania 05-01-2008 20:25
Re: Backup Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by seg9585 (Post 669029)
Just because you can't use the CMUcam doesn't mean you can't use your own modified visual system. Either way, telling the bot which to knock off would be based on the human player's signals to the bot. "Hybrid" mode they now call it.
Although if you have good programmers you can program the robot to automatically navigate to the ball instead of useing more buttons.

cardinalman86 05-01-2008 20:33
Re: Backup Battery
 
the dots just seperate the balls from the views of the refs, as referred to above.

seg9585 05-01-2008 20:40
Re: Backup Battery
 
Quote:
Although if you have good programmers you can program the robot to automatically navigate to the ball instead of useing more buttons.

I was responding to your post questioning the usefulness of the circular or noncircular marks on the balls for autonomous purposes if both teams have each logo and the balls are placed randomly. Autonomous programmers would use the ball's color before considering the markings on the ball, although the human players could indicate the correct logo to look for if they wanted to.

Tomasz Bania 05-01-2008 20:43
Re: Backup Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cardinalman86 (Post 669068)
the dots just seperate the balls from the views of the refs, as referred to above.
I would understand if both balls one color were dotted and of the other not, but it's one dotted and one not dotted for each color. Only would benefit if 2 red or blue balls went over at the same time, but even than not that important.

seg9585 05-01-2008 20:53
Re: Backup Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomasz Bania (Post 669089)
I would understand if both balls one color were dotted and of the other not, but it's one dotted and one not dotted for each color. Only would benefit if 2 red or blue balls went over at the same time, but even than not that important.
The symbols are probably so the refs know which balls have been pushed all the way around the track to score extra points

Tomasz Bania 05-01-2008 21:58
Re: Backup Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by seg9585 (Post 669106)
The symbols are probably so the refs know which balls have been pushed all the way around the track to score extra points
Thanks, that never came to mind, just thinking about putting the ball up.

RyanCahoon 06-01-2008 01:09
Re: Backup Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanN (Post 668945)
I do NOT think you can use the camera this year as of rule R36.

<R36> COTS ITEMS from ROBOTS entered in previous FIRST competitions or COTS
MECHANISMS that are no longer commercially available may be used under the following
conditions:
• The item must be unmodified, and still in its original condition as delivered from the
VENDOR
• The item must not be a part custom made for the FIRST competition and provided in the
Kit Of Parts for a previous FIRST Robotics Competition (e.g. 2006 FRC transmissions,
custom-made motor couplers, custom sensor strips, 2006 IFI CMUcam II modules, etc.
are not permitted)
• The item must satisfy ALL of the rules associated with materials/parts use for the 2008
FIRST Robotics Competition)

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I would love to use the camera this year for autonomous.
The CMUCam actually doesn't fall under this category, as it's not manufactured specifically for FIRST. It actually comes from the fine folks at Carnegie Mellon University (hence the name), you can see the website here.

The one downside is I think the servo mount for the camera is custom made, so you'd have to machine one yourself, or else find a servo gimble from another vender.

--Ryan

fimmel 06-01-2008 01:38
Re: Backup Battery
 
the reason it says 2006 CMU2 cameras are not allowed is because they updated the camera fro 2006 to 2007 and the 2006 cameras are no longer in production. making them not COTS items.

...forest

keen101 06-01-2008 04:22
Re: Backup Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BQuennell (Post 668988)
Also on the backup battery, I'm curious to if we can use a backup battery charging circuit from last year. It doesnt list any design in the manual and rule R49 lists
When mounted on the ROBOT, the backup battery may be charged from the 12VDC primary battery by using the custom charging circuit available from Innovation First Inc. or any similar charging circuit (note: IFI will provide the design for this circuit on the IFI website, however teams must obtain the parts for this circuit and assemble it themselves). The use of this circuit is strongly encouraged.

With that does that mean teams can design their own circuit as well?
It is my understanding that a backup battery charging circuit is recommended. I also take it that you can design your own. The one from IFI is not supported, and is there as a guideline/sample. You basically are taking your own risks.

I was seriously thinking about building a charging circuit for it last year. But, it turned out for some reason we didn't need it. I guess out of luck I actually got them to charge well. :)

Andy A. 06-01-2008 04:36
Re: Backup Battery
 
The backup battery serves to power the RC during 'brown outs' and as positive voltage on the middle pin of PWM outputs. Effectively this means that it powers servos and saves you from your robot shutting down and resetting under heavy loads and low batteries. In the past we would have loved to have this kind of backup..

The charging circuit published by IFI in the past isn't all that great. Unless your robot is using a great number of servos or sensors powered by a PWM output it probably isn't nessecary to include the backup charging circuit. Simply charging the battery off the robot every few matches is perfectly adequate.

It is however required to include the backup battery on the robot and connected to the RC. The included battery pack is fine, but it is acceptable to replace it with any 7.2v battery pack (these are common in R/C cars, and you can get very high capacity packs if you so desire).

-Andy A.

PhilBot 06-01-2008 10:07
Re: Backup Battery
 
1 Attachment(s)
Team 1629 designed and built an on-board charger circuit for 2007. It was based on the "Improved" charger design that was released late in the build season (the one that showed the extra battery terminal that was required).

The schematic and PCB were designed with the free software from ExpressPCB.com.

The board is larger than it needs to be (2.5x3.8) but this is their economic "Mini-pcb" size. By keeping to this size you can get 3 pcb's made in 3 days for less than $60. Build one for real, one for a spare and give one away :)

I've attached a zip to this message. It includes a pdf of the schematic and PCB as well as the actual ExpressPCB files. So you can go to ExpressPCB.com, download the software, open the PCB design file and then "Order Online".

It was great not having to remember to remove the battery to keep it charged.

This circuit also has pads for including a blocking diode so that the backup battery cannot back-power the RC. This was not included in the "official" schematic" so if you want to play by the letter of the law, just insert a wire in place of D3.

Also note that R1 and R4 dissipate power (get hot), so make sure you use at least 2W resistors.

Phil.

Tomasz Bania 06-01-2008 14:12
Re: Backup Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanCahoon (Post 669459)
The CMUCam actually doesn't fall under this category, as it's not manufactured specifically for FIRST. It actually comes from the fine folks at Carnegie Mellon University (hence the name), you can see the website here.

The one downside is I think the servo mount for the camera is custom made, so you'd have to machine one yourself, or else find a servo gimble from another vender.

--Ryan
That is true, but it was a kit of parts-supplied compnent both years.

The item must not be a part custom made for the FIRST competition and provided in the
Kit Of Parts for a previous FIRST Robotics Competition (e.g. 2006 FRC transmissions,
custom-made motor couplers, custom sensor strips, 2006 IFI CMUcam II modules, etc.
are not permitted)

Nate Laverdure 06-01-2008 14:14
Re: Backup Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomasz Bania (Post 669830)
That is true, but it was a kit of parts-supplied compnent both years.

The item must not be a part custom made for the FIRST competition and provided in the
Kit Of Parts for a previous FIRST Robotics Competition (e.g. 2006 FRC transmissions,
custom-made motor couplers, custom sensor strips, 2006 IFI CMUcam II modules, etc.
are not permitted)
To be prohibited, the item must be custom-made for FIRST AND be provided in the kit. The CMU cameras only meet one of the two parameters.

Tomasz Bania 06-01-2008 14:17
Re: Backup Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure (Post 669833)
To be prohibited, the item must be custom-made for FIRST AND be provided in the kit. The CMU cameras only meet one of the two parameters.
That definition could be interpreted very loosely, but I do understand what you mean (although it doesn't apply to the 2006 module)


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