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-   -   How do you get your other ball (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60767)

Jeff 801 05-01-2008 21:31
How do you get your other ball
 
the first ball is on your side and you can reach it but then the other ball you can not have your arm extended because the rack where the ball is sitting in the opponents home zone <G36> so how do you get that ball

daftpunk79 05-01-2008 21:34
Re: How do you get your other ball
 
i think that may only refer to at the end of the game...im pretty sure you can knock it down anytime during the game

pakratt1991 05-01-2008 21:50
Re: How do you get your other ball
 
I had the same though and posted this in a different thread, the robot in the game animation does it, are we not allowed to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pakratt1991 (Post 669112)
I says that you can not extend past a height of six feet in your opponents Home Stretch, so how are you supposed to get your color ball of their overpass?

Rule <G36>
HOME STRETCH Height Restriction – ROBOTS in the HOME STRETCH of the opposing ALLIANCE can not be more than 6 feet tall. A PENALTY will be assigned for each infraction.

also
Rule <G22>
Direction Of Traffic – ROBOTS must proceed around the TRACK in a counter-clockwise direction. Once a ROBOT has CROSSED a LANE MARKER or FINISH LINE, it shall not break the plane of the line by moving in the clockwise direction. A PENALTY will be assigned for each infraction.


So are you supposed to go passed your opponents finish line, turn around, and hit your ball off the overpass with out crossing the plane of the Finish Line? The robot in the animation extends past the 6 foot height limit to reach the ball.

Kellen Hill 05-01-2008 22:19
Re: How do you get your other ball
 
I am predicting a rule change in this area.

A few other ways the ball could get down are:

1. Use your other ball to make contact and knock it down,
2. The other team will want to get it down so your team doesn't get the 12 point bonus at the end of the match for having your ball still up there.

These are ways to get it down but I really think that they will change something.

Jeff 801 05-01-2008 22:46
Re: How do you get your other ball
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daftpunk79 (Post 669157)
i think that may only refer to at the end of the game...im pretty sure you can knock it down anytime during the game
you can but you wil get a 10 point deduction

cicib99 05-01-2008 23:28
Re: How do you get your other ball
 
yeah i think theres going to be several rule changes.

a lot of ideas r contradicting...

Taylor 05-01-2008 23:31
Re: How do you get your other ball
 
What if this isn't a mistake on the GDC's part? What if <G36> is intentionally worded? This could yield some very interesting game strategies.
1)Leaving the trackball up there could yield the alliance a 12-point endgame bonus.
2)The opposing alliance could accidentally knock down the trackball either by attempting a hurdle or by attempting to dislodge their own trackball
3)The opposing alliance could dislodge the ball during teleoperated period, giving zero removal points but secure in the notion that it would take seven trackball-laps to outscore the 12 point endgame bonus
4)Assuming the opposing alliance is going to be launching hurdle attempts with a ten-pound trackball, it may be in a team's best interest not to have an extended (and most likely unprotected) appendage near the overpass

Otaku 06-01-2008 05:56
Re: How do you get your other ball
 
Well it says that a robot shall not be taller than 6', It never says that the robot can not be above the 6ft plane. Lets say the ground were higher, or... it was on a ramp-bot. Then the bot on top could be under 72" tall (NOT under 72" from the ground) and still have some room to play with. Now that's an interesting strategy, I think. That's also probably a strategy that nobody'll take (enough with ramps already) and would still get you penalized (for being a smarta -- yeah).

Especially since one of the dictionary definitions of height is "The distance from the bottom to the top of an object."

Also, knocking off opponent's ball = they lose 12 points. Doing it in their home stretch, you lose 10. If the scores are even, that's a decent strategy. It'd win a match, that's for sure.

neoshaakti 06-01-2008 06:54
Re: How do you get your other ball
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otaku (Post 669596)
Well it says that a robot shall not be taller than 6', It never says that the robot can not be above the 6ft plane. Lets say the ground were higher, or... it was on a ramp-bot. Then the bot on top could be under 72" tall (NOT under 72" from the ground) and still have some room to play with. Now that's an interesting strategy, I think. That's also probably a strategy that nobody'll take (enough with ramps already) and would still get you penalized (for being a smarta -- yeah).

Especially since one of the dictionary definitions of height is "The distance from the bottom to the top of an object."

Also, knocking off opponent's ball = they lose 12 points. Doing it in their home stretch, you lose 10. If the scores are even, that's a decent strategy. It'd win a match, that's for sure.
woahhh that is a very sophisticated strategy you got there ;)
that would enable your team to also score on both overpasses during the endgame (unless you just score on your own side of the overpass...)

Otaku 06-01-2008 07:02
Re: How do you get your other ball
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoshaakti (Post 669607)
woahhh that is a very sophisticated strategy you got there ;)
that would enable your team to also score on both overpasses during the endgame (unless you just score on your own side of the overpass...)
KOP + Regional Registration: $5000.
New Trackballs 'casue you popped the one in the KOP: $12.
Thinking out strategies like a FIRSTer: Priceless.

There's some things money CAN buy. For everything else, there's FIRST.

Paul Copioli 06-01-2008 08:04
Re: How do you get your other ball
 
How about the flag? The flag must be placed so it is 75 inches from the ground. Last time I checked, that is taller than 6'. So that means your robot could never do a lap ...

I expect some clarifications on this rule. I will ask a question as soon as the Q & A is up.

Taylor 06-01-2008 08:07
Re: How do you get your other ball
 
Unfortunately, the wedge rule is back and very clear in <R19>: "Neither offensive nor defensive wedges are allowed"

ALIBI 06-01-2008 08:14
Re: How do you get your other ball
 
The arena is divided into four distinct areas, movement between areas is counterclockwise (G42). Once you are in an area, you should be able to move in any direction you want, just leave a passing lane. You could go back and knock the trackball down from the other side since you can not be over six feet tall while in opposing alliances home stretch (G36).

Boiler nailed it, if the trackball stays up for the entire match, it becomes 12 points.

I would like to see a definition of "in" regarding rule G36. Do the boundaries of the home stretch extend to the ceiling? Meaning that if any part of your robot passes over the home stretch without touching the floor, would it be considered a violation? G22 talks about breaking the plane being a violation, rule G36 does not.

GaryVoshol 06-01-2008 08:19
Re: How do you get your other ball
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Copioli (Post 669617)
How about the flag? The flag must be placed so it is 75 inches from the ground. Last time I checked, that is taller than 6'. So that means your robot could never do a lap ...
The flag has never been considered a part of the robot. Even so, I doubt it would have enough strength to move the ball off the overpass.

Quote:
I expect some clarifications on this rule. I will ask a question as soon as the Q & A is up.
Unless I beat you to it.

Shelbo 06-01-2008 11:42
Re: How do you get your other ball
 
My thought:
The overpass is 78". The ball in the track of the overpass sits down approximately 8". This means you have to reach 70" to touch the ball. You are permitted to be 72". Those two inches need to be really important.

I welcome any input...


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