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-   -   How do you get your other ball (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60767)

mcmouse 06-01-2008 14:51

Re: How do you get your other ball
 
1 Attachment(s)
:confused:
I think we reay need clarification on G36 and R16. the hight limit in the oponents home stretch. even the animation seemed to violate both rules as the red bot is obviosely much to hig for being in the blu home stretch.
see animation video at 1min53sec or the attached picture of it.
lets see the Q&A and team update. Team 451 - Jens

jgannon 06-01-2008 15:14

Re: How do you get your other ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Glick (Post 669875)
I did, but I'm pretty sure that the intent of the rule is to keep robots from going demolition derby style and going against traffic.

There's a possibility that your interpretation of the intent is correct, but as it's worded right now, there is no room for interpretation. Reaching from the other side as you describe would garner you a ten point penalty. Maybe this will change next week, but assigning some kind of intent to the rules when none is given only confuses the issue.

flamefixed 06-01-2008 15:19

Re: How do you get your other ball
 
well some near guaranteed changes, or at the least, clarification of the rules should definitely be in the near future...hopefully

Daniel_LaFleur 06-01-2008 15:23

Re: How do you get your other ball
 
I am pretty sure you'll be able to knock the trackball off of the rails from beyond the opponents finish line without crossing it, since it will hang over the line.

The difficulty will be ensuring you are beyond the line before attempting it, being lined up enough, and being able to apply enough force to the Trackball

Tottanka 06-01-2008 15:24

Re: How do you get your other ball
 
you could get the ball while not beeing in the opposing side's home strech zone.
You cross their finish line, go back dropping the ball/grabbing it and there you have it.
This might be intentional by the GDC, not a mistake like many of us hurried to asume.
The mistake though, is in the Game Animation, which means that Lavery is still messing with our heads!

EricH 06-01-2008 16:19

Re: How do you get your other ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tottanka (Post 669913)
you could get the ball while not beeing in the opposing side's home strech zone.
You cross their finish line, go back dropping the ball/grabbing it and there you have it.

Chuck proposed that. You can't recross any lines or even break the planes unless you have gone a full lap. So, you cross the finish line and then hit the ball. You now run the risk of getting a 10-pointer for breaking the plane.

Tottanka 06-01-2008 16:20

Re: How do you get your other ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 669971)
Chuck proposed that. You can't recross any lines or even break the planes unless you have gone a full lap. So, you cross the finish line and then hit the ball. You now run the risk of getting a 10-pointer for breaking the plane.

But it might jube be woeth it in order to get the ball dropped and usable for Hurdling.

Daniel_LaFleur 06-01-2008 16:28

Re: How do you get your other ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 669971)
Chuck proposed that. You can't recross any lines or even break the planes unless you have gone a full lap. So, you cross the finish line and then hit the ball. You now run the risk of getting a 10-pointer for breaking the plane.

Why do you risk getting the penalty?

The finish line is directly under the 2nd bar. As long as whatever you hit the trackball with is vertical and is outside the bar, then you have not broken the plane. The ball will overhang the bar and thus can be hit and knocked off the rails without penalty.

EricH 06-01-2008 16:31

Re: How do you get your other ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur (Post 669985)
Why do you risk getting the penalty?

The finish line is directly under the 2nd bar. As long as whatever you hit the trackball with is vertical and is outside the bar, then you have not broken the plane. The ball will overhang the bar and thus can be hit and knocked off the rails without penalty.

If you are slightly off/your vertical member bends over the line, you broke the plane. If a ref sees you, they can give a penalty. I'm also not sure it's physically possible to do this. (ball and rail dynamics)

Daniel_LaFleur 06-01-2008 16:40

Re: How do you get your other ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 669992)
If you are slightly off/your vertical member bends over the line, you broke the plane. If a ref sees you, they can give a penalty. I'm also not sure it's physically possible to do this. (ball and rail dynamics)

I'm not too concerned about the vertical member being off (this is what spirit levels are for :D ) ... I'd be more concerned with a portion of the robot hanging over the finish line while we extend above the 6' high restriction.

Mark Pendergast 06-01-2008 16:44

Re: How do you get your other ball
 
I have a concern about this situation as well.

The animation did show a robot knocking the ball off the far side, from its OWN side of the field, by reaching over the center line. (I can't believe that this is what they intended :ahh: .)

I hope they change the rule to allow violations of the 6 foot rule in Hybrid mode.

GBIT 06-01-2008 16:46

Re: How do you get your other ball
 
Quote:

given a trackball center at (0,0)
given a trackball contact point with a rail at (16,y) (the rails are 32" apart)
given the trackball is 20" and assuming it remains approximately spherical, then...

x^2 + y^2 = r^2
16^2 + y^2 = 400
y^2 = 400 - 256
y = 12

So the contact point for the rails will be 12" below the center of the ball. This means that between the rails, the bottom of the ball should be 8" below them, and thus 2" below the maximum allowed height of a robot in the opponent zone. However, this is in an ideal world where the rails are infinitely thin and the ball is perfectly sperical. Since the rails are 1.5" wide and the ball will deform some, the ball may be slightly higher than where I computed it to be, and the contact space for a robot will be very, very small.
I know this math has been posted in a few other threads but the math is faulty so ill post my teams

We noticed the the equation above used numbers assuming the ball was on center with the pipes. this is not true seeing that the ball rests on the top of the pipes. We found the hang to be (assuming the the 6.5' overpass is on center with the pipes) it would hang only 1.5 inches below the 6' legal limit. If the 6.5' is at the bottom of the pipes it would hang only .67 inches from the 6' limit. this is assuming the the ball in of 40" diameter.


here is the diagram:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/at...6&d=1199655203

Sir Cadogen 06-01-2008 17:01

Re: How do you get your other ball
 
The animation showed the opposing alliance knocking off the opponents track ball at the end of the match from the other lane. Could you do the same at the beginning of the match to your track ball?

David Brinza 06-01-2008 17:08

Re: How do you get your other ball
 
Suppose you clear the finish line then raise something to contact the part of the ball that overhangs the overpass. If this appendage of the robot contacts the pipe supporting the ball, have you broken the plane? Would this be a violation of <G22> even if the robot base is not moving in a clockwise direction? Lot's of stuff for FIRST Q&A to address on this topic...

GBIT 06-01-2008 19:00

Re: How do you get your other ball
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David Brinza (Post 670035)
Suppose you clear the finish line then raise something to contact the part of the ball that overhangs the overpass. If this appendage of the robot contacts the pipe supporting the ball, have you broken the plane? Would this be a violation of <G22> even if the robot base is not moving in a clockwise direction? Lot's of stuff for FIRST Q&A to address on this topic...

no the Home stretch is ,from what my team told me, the wall to the preceding edge of the black and white checker.


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