Re: Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs
 

As has been stated many times: build the robot to be robust. That includes a flag holder.

As for will the laps be counted IF the counter is removed by accident, The only way to know the exact laps would be to count manually as they did the balls in the lower goals a few years ago. Then again there was arguments that the people counting miss counted and made mistakes. I guess there is no perfect solution just a best one.

Re: Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs
 

i am somewhat worried about this

Re: Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs
 

Firstly, I wanna say that it's not the holder I was worried about more than the flag.

Second, I assume that counting laps should be easier, considering you can't get more than one lap per second, nevermind 10 at a time like with the Aim High challenge.

Re: Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs
 

This is probably what refs will wish for teams to have. Being able to tell a team's alliance by any fast glance will help them 30 times over in the case something needs to be called.

There should be a petition that calls for teams to design interchangeable colored bumpers for the sake of our refs since this is their toughest game too.

Re: Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs
 

Does anyone know if it's possible to mount the flag holder at a 45 degree angle. The mount would stay within the allowed dimensions but the flag would stick out the back. This is the only way our team can see mounting the flag without hitting it every launch we make.
Or, are you allowed to put the flag on a spring mount that will bounce out of the way on impact and return to it's rest position?
Thoughts?

Re: Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs
 

Mounting at an angle doesn't sound legit. The question is what "permanently" is supposed to mean. The picture next to <R17> refers to it as a "hard mount", but that text doesn't actually appear in the rule. 1114 had a flag holder that was able to move last year, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it would pass muster this year.

Re: Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs
 

With all the trouble that teams have been having keeping their trackballs intact, rules limiting protrusions that could become puncture or impalement hazards, rules requiring radii on corners etc. I just find it ironic that the field personel will be giving us all a spear (Flag) at the begining of a match that must be mounted permanently in an approximatley vertical position. I would like to see the GDC better define "approximately vertical". The +/- five inches from the required 51" height of the top of the flag holder could give you quite a bit of back and forth motion if say the flag holder was secured via a spring from the bottom, much like a bicycle flag, and maintained a height of 56" when vertical. It seems that mounting it with a spring would also make it much less of a puncture hazard for the trackball. I have not done the math, but at the maximum height the flag may also contract the over pass. I am not sure if that would affect the scoring mechanisms ability to read your lap indicator if the indicator was moving around a lot.

Re: Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs
 

the design height of the flag of 75" plus the 5" tolerance adds up to 80" which is the design height of the bottom of the overpass.

I think....

Re: Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs
 

The flags themselves better be made out of titanium or they'll bend/snap when a trackball hit them. Personally I'd rather design the flag pole into the robot such that the flag itself helps shield our robot from a potential trackball impact, but I think most people would agree that the intent is non-GP. So I guess we're just stuck with a roll-cage that goes all the way up to 45-56" ...

Re: Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs
 

1075 isn't much liking the flag this year... the holder is trivial... Did anyone ever find out from the GDC if a spring loaded flag is acceptable?

Re: Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs
 

On our robot (Phoenix) we have the flag mounted on a 12" pivot. 500ms before we fire, the flag moves out of the way. After firing it moves back to its pre-launch position to keep it from being broken by passing robots. In our videos you can see the flag in the launch position. Our programmers didn't have the pivot programmed in yet.
It works great.

Re: Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs
 

This was answered by the GDC last week.

http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=8285

Re: Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs
 

that Q&A response doesnt really say you cant use a 'spring-loaded' mount, such that when not being impacted by a ball, the holder is vertical.

EDIT: found one that says they want it approximately vertical the entire time... much as it seems silly to me, because to have it rigidly mounted in a vertical position will result in launched trackballs being able to hit it. This may result in the launching/breaking of flags. A spring loaded mount would surely be safer.

Re: Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs
 

I think the above statement is looking for a grey area of the rule where the Q&A Answer says "can not be".

I believe the rule is very clear, "Must Be" and "in any playing configuration" are very clear terms in our teams view of the rules, hence our decision to mount the flag holder the way we did.

Re: Flag, Flag Holder vs Trackballs
 

So far, I have yet to see a flag/flagholder broken by the trackball.