Chief Delphi - Dual Robots

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Happy new year and, more importantly, new FIRST comp season!

My team and I have been pouring over the game for the past 48 hours or so and have reached a point where we need to ask some more experienced FIRSTers.

We have a plan to build 1 robot that can do most of the stuff on the game except hurdling. Only problem is the size and weight would make it one of the slower machines on the field.

To solve this problem, we are planning in a part that can be removed entirely from the robot and would serve as essentially a mini bot, smaller, faster, and more agile than most on the field. All modifications/ removals would happen in the pit, with nothing being left on the field.

The question is whether or not we are allowed to do this? Leave a significant portion of our bot behind in the pit for a chance to score more laps than any others out there.

Any thoughts/ opinions would be greatly helpful.

Chris McKenzie
2186

P.S. This would only be done in a match when we figure the largest number of points from both sides will be scored in laps etc...

No, you are not allowed to intentional detach or remove objects from your robot in any way during the competition. This includes a secondary robot.

Not during the competition play, in the pits between matches.

No, once your robot passes inspection it must remain the same for evey match. if any major changes to the robot are made it must then be sized and inspected yet again.

I took our ramp off last year in the pits before the elimination so that we could see better to hang ringers and we had a ramp bot on our alliance. I think that as long as it was on when it was inspected that it can be taken off, just not detached on the field.

If I understand you correctly, you're talking about making a mini-robot, and then an entire shell around it that can do other parts of the game, and would act as an attachment. As long as

a) all configurations combined meet the 120lb weight limit
b) the sub-robot passes as a full FRC robot, and all the attachments are only attachments
b) you choose which configuration you use before the match, and can never switch between them in the match

As was mentioned, you would need to be re-inspected if you were to do this and the modular parts do count towards your 120lbs limit. Could be wrong but I'm pretty sure tahts what the rule is

That's my understanding: It's legal, but ALL of the parts of all configurations need to weight under 120 pounds. Read <R12> for a good example.

We did not have to reinspect because the ramp was on during the first inspection and meet all guidelines and they said that we only removed an attachment and did not add anything that was not on during inspection.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcreech5 (Post 671683)

No, you are not allowed to intentional detach or remove objects from your robot in any way during the competition. This includes a secondary robot.

Where in the rules does it say this?

If you make a base or "chassis" that has your drive train and everything that makes it legal on it, and you have a arm that is easy to detach in the pits, then you can take it off and run the base. Since your really can't push other robots around this year, the loss of the extra arm weight won't hurt you as much, which is what you are really after.

The plan is to have it all as one bot, then remove as needed before matches, all work being done in the pits. We also removed somethings last year and were told that we did not need it reinspected, I would assume it would fly this year also.

We would have it all weigh in as one bot though, with all the parts being on the starter bot being inspected.

Chris McKenzie
2186

Quote:

<R09> Each registered FIRST Robotics Competition team can enter ONE (1) ROBOT into the 2008 FIRST Robotics Competition. That ROBOT shall fully comply with all rules specified in the 2008 FIRST Robotics Competition manual.

<R12> When determining weight, the basic ROBOT structure and all elements of all additional mechanisms that might be used in different configurations of the ROBOT shall be weighed together. Included in the weight limit are the robot control system, back-up 7.2V battery,
decorations, and all other attached parts.
Example: A team has decided to design their ROBOT such that, before any given MATCH, they may change the configuration of the ROBOT based on perceived strengths or weaknesses of an opponent. The team accomplished this by constructing a basic drive train platform plus two versions of a GAME PIECE manipulator, each manipulator being a quick attach / detach device such that either one or the other (but not both) may be part of the ROBOT at the beginning of a MATCH. Their ROBOT platform weighs 107 lb, version A of the manipulator weighs 6 lb, and version B weighs 8 lb. Although only one version will be on the ROBOT during a MATCH, both
manipulators (and all components of the manipulators that would be used during the MATCH) must be on the scale along with the ROBOT platform during weigh in. This would result in a rejection of the ROBOT because its total weight comes to 121 lb.

<R113> If a team makes a modification to the ROBOT after it has passed inspection, that must have the ROBOT re-inspected. If an observation is made that another team’s may be in violation of the robot rules, please approach FIRST officials to review the question. This is an area where “Gracious Professionalism” is very important.

<R114> At the time of inspection, the ROBOT must be presented with all MECHANISMS (including all COMPONENTS of each MECHANISM) and configurations that will be used on the ROBOT during the entire competition event. It is acceptable, however, for a ROBOT to play MATCHES with a subset of the MECHANISMS that were present during inspection. Only MECHANISMS that were present during the inspection may be added, removed or reconfigured between MATCHES. If subsets of MECHANISMS are changed between MATCHES, the reconfigured ROBOT must still meet all inspection criteria.

As long as you started with one bot that passed inspection and removed mechanisms before matches, I don't see why it wouldn't work.

Quote:

<G44> Detaching MECHANISMS - ROBOTS may not intentionally detach parts or leave multiple mechanisms on the TRACK. Violations will result in a PENALTY per incident. If an intentionally detached component or mechanism significantly impedes access to the TRACK or an ALLIANCE ROBOT, the offending ROBOT will be disqualified from the MATCH.

If you guys do end up doing this, I have got to see it. Any chance of a tour at VCU?

Detaching significant parts of a robot is legal as long as any/all parts used weighed under 120lbs. This year I could easily see removing your hurdler and ball recovery mechanisms to get fast and agile. Especially if your two alliance partners were the best hurdlers at the regional. Last year I saw many robots that had damaged manipulators that ran without the manipulators while they were being repaired.

To have a smaller and larger robot could be difficult, no impossible, to have both meet all the standards, i.e. bumpers, flag holder, RC, battery. I have seen watercraft that attach to a smaller PWC to make small boat that can carry six to eight people. If you had a self contained small robot and then built a larger fully functional, all the bells and whistles robot around it that could be removed, could be very interesting. As long as both together weighed 120lbs or less.

Post a video and GOOD LUCK!

We had a similar idea last year. We made a ramp that didn't move but inside it was a small bot that could be taken out and used to play defense. As far as we knew it was all legal.

We are going to VCU, so if you are there, check us out.

After futher dicussions it has been pretty well set that it will essentially be an elec. board on wheels.

Now we are trying to figure out the bumpers. How to get it past the wheelie bar...

Chris McKenzie
2186