NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

I posted earlier about the Nintendo DS Scouting system in November, when Rack'N'Roll was still the FRC game. Now that Overdrive is here, I need to start making a program to fit the new scenario! What better way to do this than to ask those who might use it?

If you aren't familiar with the NDS Scouting system, read the earlier thread regarding the process and equipment necessary to run the system.
Here's a run down for those of you too tired of mulling through CD:

Basically, the NDS system is an intuitive scouting solution to the traditional 'pencil and paper' method. The platform is, obviously, the Nintendo DS, mainly because the touch screen provides plenty of benefits to make it worthwhile. It's actually quite simple; a superkey goes in the slot-1, and a supercard goes in the slot-2. The program is run from an SD card in the supercard, and data can be written/saved/changed/deleted if necessary.

Here's where I need help: I am not really a scouting person (haven't really sat in the stands because I'm usually in the pits or on the field). If experienced scouters could voice their opinions/suggestions/preferences for a scouting program on a DS, what would they be? The previous program had 2 screens: one for entering the match #, team #, and color, and one for the # of tubes, # of bonus points, etc. I feel if there was more input from the beginning, I could make a more efficient scouting program that more teams could effectively utilize.

So, scouters, what would you suggest I put in the program?

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

One thing I suggest as looking into the game a bit

the speed of the robot or gearbox used

if you go under the overpass or over

what kind of hybrid mode you use (dead reckoning, IR sensor, knock the ball down, just drive under)

gripper type(meaning grabbing mechanism/lifting vs. launching mechanism)

end game srategy

that's all i think of for now if you have any questions on scouting let me know i have 4 years of scouting experience so feel free to email me at sebas2mil@myacc.net or aim at sebas2mil

or pm me

sebastian

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

I agree. It'd be a lot of help to be able to input information on the robots individually instead of only plugging in the scores for each match.

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

That's true, it would be nice to have a full description of each robot (this could be done with pit scouting), but think about it, does it matter how the robot is built, or how the robot performs?

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

Well, it would be helpful to have the capabilities of the robots "written" down. Maybe the team with one of the best records has a "box on wheels", but has just been lucky with the alliances they were partnered into. They could have high scores recorded, but they are incapable of scoring many points of their own.

Yes, it is how the robot performs, but we would need to record how the robot performs individually, not just their alliance.

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

A robot that gets lucky and has a high seed because they were in good alliances, will get a very low rating using performance based scouting (which is what 1726 is working on). The idea is to have one person scouting each of the 6 robots in a match, recording the points that robot makes, and this information about each robot for each match is put into a spreadsheet. We can sort this many ways, such as by laps made, balls herded for points, balls hurdled for points, hybrid mode score, etc. So, there really is no way for a poor performing robot to look good in our scouting report.

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

Thanks for clarifying that. I thought it would just record alliance scores.

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

I would love to be able to scout on my ds

The thing that would be a problem in my opinion would getting 6 NDS's out in the stands I would prefer a program for pit scouting more than match scouting

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

that's an option. If I have time, I'll definitely look into it (DS are much more organized than pencil and paper!!)

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

For teams planning on implementing this, I'll let you know right now that I am making progress. I've attached an screen shot as proof.

The basic idea is that you start with the match info and move along through hybrid mode and tele-operated mode. Then you can add comments before saving. If, at any time, you forgot something or need to change it, you can simply go back and change it (left bar is a menu). You can also return to the main menu at any time.

The top screen will eventually be used to tell the time and current robot points.

Suggestions and comments appreciated.

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

In this game, you may overlook some good robots counting like this. As I see it, since there are two trackballs, having three hurdlers on an alliance has little benefit. The ideal alliance how I see it would be two hurdlers and a good pusher willing to help out the hurdlers by brining the ball to them. Such a robot would score very few points on its own, but would still be an important part of the alliance.

This would be very complex, but perhaps another thing to look at could be if the average scores of the other robots on an alliance consistently increase when placed with a specific robot?

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

Good point Daniel...on the system we developed (but never got a chance to use because we were several months late) for Rack-N-Roll, there is a place to record "defensive maneuvers". That could be useful for Overdrive also!

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

The one thing I have experienced in the past with pit scouting is the ability for the teams to stretch the truth a bit about their robot's capabilities


Sebas

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

well they can exaggerate sometimes but I don't think anyone ever allout lies about something. Even with a few liars pit scouting isn't useless

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

well I didn't say lie

but that is one reason why I like individual robot match scouting because it gives an accurate statistic of their robot's abilities

although pit scouting is good to find out the speed of a robot in ft/s and also capabilities to be able to compare later

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

any update on this?

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

Heh, sorry, I just noticed this thread had some more posts...

Update: I guess, looking back at the last post in this thread I made, I've come along a bit. The hybrid mode and teleop mode are all wired up and done with. To get a working version I need to add the comments, the save, and then make the Excel spreadsheet. Unfortunately, for the last 2 weeks I've been busy with the team website/english project/programming/building/etc. So I haven't had any time work on it recently... Don't worry though, I'll have it finished by the end of build season! (in fact, maybe I can find some time today to work on it...)

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

Can you make this software scalable so we can use it with only 1 or 2 DS's ? Not all teams have access to several cards and DS's.

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

Well... the idea with this is that every DS goes to 1 robot on the field... it will work with however many DS's you have, but then you need to remember the numbers and stuff for every robot.

Also, a slight update. I am now 80% done! And by 80% I mean the DS end of the scouting software is now done. The rest of it is an excel macro that may take several days to figure out (hopefully not... but we'll see) that sorts the data and actually makes it useful.

Check attachment for screen shots of the program. Questions & comments appreciated.

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

very nice, any plan for pit scouting

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

It's a possibility... Unfortunately, I got tied up with other things and didn't get much time to work on this. However, in the 1 week between ship date and the first regional, I may be able to make a simple pit scouting program that you can use to check off different aspects of the robots. That all depends on if I can regain all the sleep I've lost on time ;)

Another slight update: I'm kinda sorta remembering how to make the macro in Excel, so it shouldn't be but another day or two before the whole project is finished.

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

This would be awesome if you could get it to work. Maybe next year it can be some sort of co-team effort?

Sam

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

Yea... Unfortunately I didn't get enough time this year to make it easily available to teams. I have the scouting software and will post is pretty soon, but I doubt anyone but our team will use it this year.

That being said, hopefully next year several teams can benefit from this system! I'll have all year to mess with it and make enhancements, so don't think for a second that it's dead ;)

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

I'm really interested in this now. Personally, I own a DS and would like to put it to good use.

I downloaded an emulator and took a look at the 07 program and the 08 program you have so far.

It looks really good but here's my dilemma: My team has already made a scouting sheet. We document the match-by-match performance of each robot very well. When it comes to alliance selection though, its difficult for us to slog through the mountain of papers and messy handwriting right before its time to select our teammates.

If we had one DS on our team, our head scout could select maybe 20 of the top robots we're looking at and summarize their performance, strategy, and general information. The information would be transferred from the paper, to the DS. Information could be quickly scrolled through by our coach who is picking alliances on the field.

Ultimately, my point is this: Match-by-match robot documentation on the DS requires six of them. I wish the DS was used more as a tool to streamline summary information about top robots. Maybe something like this:

TEAM#: 1351 (dial)
NAME: (dial) (color chooser to highlight?) Mitty Robotics

Grade: A / B / C / D / F

Seed: (dial)
Wins/Losses: (dial)
Average Points: (dial)

Hybrid Strategy (circle all that apply): Rabbit / De-Cap / Herder / Hurdler
Tele-Op Strategy (circle all that apply): Rabbit / De-Cap / Herder / Hurdler

Place on Overpass? Y / N

Hurdle Mechanism: (keyboard input)
Herder Mechanism: (keyboard input)

This is just an idea. I'm not a programmer so I wouldn't have the best ideas on how one would go about doing this. I might run this by one of our guys to see what they think (and to see if they can do it in two weeks)

I will, however, also introduce your program to my team when it's finished :) to see if we can do something similar for next year.

thanks for your work
Sam

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

Hmm.. Interesting! I've heard from several people that making a program that lists the best robots would be useful. I'm not too deep into programming with C++, but if I work at it, I may be able to make a program like this.

I was thinking along the lines of a program where you insert the data in a formatted way into a text file which you place on the root of the SD card. When you open the program, you can sort the data by team # and select certain teams that you could then view the data of. It would also be nice to be able to sort the teams depending on certain criteria, such as best hurdler, best lap runner, etc. Only thing is, this can already be done in Excel.

So it would be nice if this thread was put to use and people explained how they would use the DS and what benefits they would get from using it. I've heard of pit scouting, alliance selection, etc., and it would be nice if people expanded on their suggestions. I'm also trying to think of a way to scout several robots at once, reducing the number of DSs required for scouting (because I know some teams don't happen to have 6 DSs lying around!), and if anyone has an idea on how to do this, it would be greatly appreciated!

If there's anything you can do to help, that would be great! I was planning on making an API so teams could simply create their own programs. This API would have screen and data handling capabilities, including (hopefully) text input, buttons, checkboxes, etc. You would simply include a library and work from there.

So, we'll see where this goes. I'm sure by next year we can have something that is flexible and modular and suits many teams' needs!

Re: NDS Overdrive Scouting System
 

Well, there's no need to give up for this year yet. We still have 4 weeks of regionals left plus the championship!

Can't wait to see what you come up with!