Re: Defense, It's still here.
 

If you are intentionally playing defense on a ball and you posses it, even if it is accidental, it should be a penalty. <G29> doesn't specify intent. The only time it shouldn't be a penalty is when it is when it is caused by an opponent as per <G23> (like when a hurdled ball fall into a shooter bot).

I am not talking about any specific match example but just the rule in general. Trackball defense is legal and a good strategy in many cases. However, if the unintended side effects of a team's trackball defense is trackball possession then it is clearly a penalty and that team is responsible.

Re: Defense, It's still here.
 

After watching a fair amount of the regionals, I'm disapointed with the lack of 'traditional' defense found in the past two years. Instead of pushing the opposing alliance, teams are trying to get too cute with ball defense and thus not as effective. I think many teams are under the impression that 'defense is illegal', while its clearly not. Yes, there are some stricter rules (such as no defense on a robot in the act of hurdling--but how is that different from playing defense in the opponents homezone like last year?), but teams can still do many of the strategies and tactics that were super effective the past two years.

For example, why don't more teams push the opposing alliance while they are picking up the ball or moving around the track (not in thier homestrech)? Or, why don't more teams pin the other teams against the wall for 5 seconds (again, not while they are attempting to hurdler)? According to <G41>, "When a ROBOT has received a signal to pass (see Rule <G38>), or when the REFEREE signals that a ROBOT is pinning an opponent in place, the ROBOT shall have 6 seconds to move out of the way and create a “passing lane” to allow the opposing ROBOT through." I don't see why a team couldn't pin a team against the wall for 5 seconds, let them pass and move to the next quadrent, pin them again, and so on.

I know some may feel this is 'against the intent of the rules'. I feel that as long as the rules don't prohibit the action, its a viable strategy. Unless you are part of the game creators, you cannont know the full intent of the rules.

Re: Defense, It's still here.
 

I don't think you can do repeated pinning this year. You didn't quote all of that rule:

It looks to me like if you keep pinning OR refusing to give way you can be yellow carded and ultimately DQ'd. That's a pretty big risk just to slow someone down.

Re: Defense, It's still here.
 

Yes, I see what you mean, but I think what it means by 'repeat infractions' is repeat penalities, NOT repeat pinnings. Thus, you can pin someone for 5 seconds, not get a penalty and repeat. Anyone else agree with me or am I just reading the rules the wrong way?

Re: Defense, It's still here.
 

Ah, now I understand. You pin, then watch the ref counting, and just before they get to "6" you let the pinned robot go. So, you never commit a penalty at all. It could work, but you would need to have really good control to not step over that six second barrier. I think you are right now that I've thought about what you meant.

Re: Defense, It's still here.
 

I think you're reading the rules the wrong way. Specifically look at this phrase: If you move out of the way for just a moment and then repeat the pin, you haven't satisfied the requirement that you "allow the opposing ROBOT through."

Re: Defense, It's still here.
 

The following new Q/A answer has some important insight: http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread...6357#post16357

Re: Defense, It's still here.
 

You may be right. I was thinking of something like pinning the robot right after they hurdler and cross the finish line for five seconds, let them pass, then pin them for five more seconds in the next quadrent.

I'm not sure if this is the same as the example in the Q&A. In that example, the robot is not given the chance to use the passing lane and progress around the track. In my example, however, the pinning robot lets them move foward to the next quadrent or a good portion of the track before the next pin takes place.

Re: Defense, It's still here.
 

whoever said there is no defence this year is stupid there are actually some good defecive teams out there

Re: Defense, It's still here.
 

Please do not insult or attack people in your post. The"whoever said there is no defence this year is stupid " was completely unnecesary. And Good syntax does help convey your message.

Yes, there are good "defective" robots out there, but then, they are no longer so defective.

Re: Defense, It's still here.
 

Did anyone see the defense in the elimination rounds at the NYC regional? The semifinal matches in particular (the ones with team 694). They were amazingly aggressive and were not flagged at all in the first match and not very much in the third match.