How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

I find it that it's a bit to easy but is a bit hard too what about you?

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

In certain ways, it is easy.

Like simply programming a remote control to tell a robot to turn left(or whatever you want it to do).

There are several different ways you could score, which increase or decrease in difficulty level.

There's your rabbit, which is pretty much just a drive base with some protective armor on it.
There's your robot that pushes the ball.
You've got the robot that puts the ball and takes the ball off of the rack, and all of that jazz.

Each of those, depending on skill level, most likely would increase in difficulty.

But the game itself, in my opinion, is quite a bit easier than last year's game.

I like the game, and can't wait to start competing at the Boilermaker Regional!

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

I like the game because it's good for rookies but Last Years game was a bit better more action and won't make your head hurt like this years, looking around the track, around, around and around there is no defense so no action.
IN MY poinion this game would be great if they had the DEFENSE!!!!!

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

I like the game, it is like a (Chinese) buffet, there is something for everyone.

There are many different levels of challanges for scoring;
something for rookies that won't stress them out and something for veterans who want to build flying machines and score big.
:]

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

At first glance, this game seems really easy and rookie-friendly. I don't think it is. Consider this: one lap with just your robot nets 2pts, but one lap hurdling nets 10pts (2pts for the robot, 8pts for hurdling). So, if a robot hurdles only twice in a match, it gets 20pts. To beat that, the boxbot needs to do eleven laps, which is quite a challenge. Good boxbots may be able to contribute some points to an alliance, but even a mediocre hurdler can top them.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

But A rookie team is merely just trying to move their robot and at least this year they get points for moving around the track. Last year if they built a robot that could just drive they would get 0 points unless they had ramps. This Year i don't like but it's good for rookie teams

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

I honestly had no idea that hurdle would be difficult to spell.
I've seen it spelled so many ways, I'm waiting for hurl/hurling.
--
The game is going to be exciting. I want a front row seat and a big box of buttered popcorn.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

Anyone who says it's easy - have you picked up that ball yet?

And yes Jane, one of our mentors was talking about hurling the other day. Must have meant the ice game with big stones, right?

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

I think this is the game FIRST has been wanting for years now. It's a game that anyone can play by just making a drive. That being said, I also think people are underestimating the difficulty of hurdling. I think you'll see a lot of teams in week one spending plenty of time just trying to get the ball over. This game could potentially be one of the best in years depending on the strategies.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

Rookies can "herd" the ball too for 2pt+2pt.
:]

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

I disagree. Last year (and the year before), a rookie team could get a respectable (possibly match winning) number of points by climbing a ramp; a rookie could also build a boxbot and play defence for the whole match, which can be extremely valuable. This year, defence is much harder to play, there are no endgame "if you are at place x" bonuses, and scoring with the ball is a challenge. In my mind, this is the most rookie unfriendly game since 2001.

True, but keeping control of that ball will be a huge challenge for the inexperienced (and many of the experienced teams, too). Even herding, the rookie is still up against quite a challenge, they must get 6 laps to beat a mediocre hurdler. And, if it takes less than a minute, say, 30 seconds, for a hurdler to be able to score again, the boxbot can pretty much forget winning that match. (of course this all assumes the two alliances have equivalent partners)

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

Yeah, hurling is when you get really sick!
;)

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

simply herding the ball is a challenge for most teams, to effectively do it you have to pretty much make a gripper that can grip it well just so you can maneuver with it.:ahh:

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

Last year it was competitive for the rookie teams, they had to just go on ramps haha thats very exciting and defense. Thats not really fun. This year rookies have a chance to compete and be competitive with the other teams, not just help or try to help with a weak squarebox. This year alows them to drive around and when the balls on the ground also pick it up and get more points. They can win without a strong team on their alliance.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

When I first saw this game, I thought it was a cakewalk. The more I stew on it, the less I'm sure.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

I think the basic objectives (driving, and ball herding) will be easier to achieve than similar objectives I've seen in First.

But I think the advanced objective (hurdling) will be harder to pull off consistantly, and quickly than a lot of the other advanced objectives I've seen.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

what a nice normal curve we've got going...
Comparing this year to my past 3 years, IMHO its about par .: its not too easy or too hard. The game does seem too have less dimensions to it then last year... we had a difficult job of picking out unique playing strategies.

I'm thinking most robots will look the same, as was '06.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

A very interesting distribution of those that think it is "too easy," those that think it is "too hard" and a bunch that think it is "just about right."

I have this wonderful mental image of a bunch of people in one corner with Mama Bear, and a bunch in the other corner with Papa Bear, and a bunch in the middle of the room with Baby Bear (who is looking at his little chair that is all broken because a Trackball fell on it)...


-dave



.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

The trackball was hurled. Simple.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

it depends on how your robot is built and what jod it does. if your robot just races around, its gonna be easy, if its a herdler, its gonna be hard.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

Hmm.... that is a better mental image than mine; dung-beetle type robots pushing giant balls of ....... rubber and cloth!
:)

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

A lot of the teams will have something that will poke off the ball off the overhead thing but they proberly won't be able to hurdle it only the more advacne teams will most likely.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

This game is great because it gives everyon a chance but still has a way to be "elite" with a more complex design.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

This game is weird. It's simultaneously the hardest game I've ever seen, AND the easiest. If you move (which, probably 99.9% of all FIRST robots have) you can score points. If you can write a few simple lines of code setting two motors to move forward, and have a reasonably true drivetrain, you can score important autonomous points. This is great! Games have never been so open. If you can stop in three foot target area and raise up a stick, you can score MAJOR autonomous points. This hasn't happened before.

But, lurking on the other side, is hurdling. Seriously. It's hard. Really hard. Once you get your field mockups up, try doing it by hand. It took me a little over 20 seconds as a human. FRC robots can't even touch our dexterity in dealing with large objects. Hurdling is darn near impossible.

I'm willing to bet that worldwide, no more than 20 robots will average 2 hurdles per match.

I think, this year the GDC over-succeeded (either that or they decided to get back at everyone who complains at how easy the games are) This game IS very, very accessable to small teams. It's also great for teams who have a lot of manpower to design, build and test. But I'm not convinced it's so great for the in between team. However, I could quite easily be proven wrong. We'll see if teams are up for the challenge. :cool:

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

Yup, and who says you can't hold 2 opposing/conflicting thoughts (or more) in your head at the same time. Piece of cake!

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

I think it seems relatively easy, although this is my first year on the team, so it's kind of hard for me to tell yet...

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

there is a quote that i like that fits this pretty much, it was said by Albert Einstein.

"I would not give a nickel for simplicity on this side of complexity, but i would give my whole life for simplicity on the other side of complexity."

What this pretty much is saying that this years game itself is simple but the way you play it it complex.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

at kickoff, i thought it was a little too easy, but now, making up the strategy book, it looks more complicated.

also, i think its a bit easier than Rack 'n Roll.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

It is easy enough for new teams.

But to compete and win a regional or Einstein it is a tough game. You will need both an excellent hybrid mode and to hurdle. We plan to do both but it is very hard.

I am glad that any team can score some in the autonomous mode.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

The game itself seems pretty simple and straight forward, BUT the way to accomplish most of the things are very difficult to get done. FIRST was definitely right when they said find a simple side to complexity.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

I think simply scoring point is easier than the past; all teams will be capable of scoring, and a respectable amount of points too (I don't expect any 3-0 matches this year as is often the case in regionals ridden with broken or malfunctioning machines). This is probably the biggest draw for me of this game, it's almost impossible to have an extremely low scoring match.

That said, scoring ALOT of points will be difficult. The average team will probably not be able to break the 20 point mark with their robot alone (2 laps with a hurdler or 5 with a herder are no small tasks), and doing anything beyond driving across the first line in hybrid mode will require some thought by programmers and coordination among the alliance so as not to crash into each other.

The GDC also threw in an interesting twist to the alliance strategy this year; there aren't enough game pieces for all 3 robots to complete the "high" scoring method simultaneously. Thinking through games, I don't know a game in the 2000's that had less of any scoring object than robots on an alliance (maybe an argument for 2001, where there were only 2 mobile goals...). If all the "powerhouse" teams at a Regional decide that hurdling is the way to go, it gives a chance for a rookie or black-horse team that avoids hurdling to really be the deciding factor in the playoffs.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

I will take that bet any time.

This game is very rookie friendly. An all rookie alliance can easily be seen this year as a good one.

i love the game, it has many things to think about when designing your robot. I bet we will see a lot of good bots that break during matches as they werent buff enough.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

My feeling about this year's game is that running laps won't be as easy as everyone thinks. Six robots and four balls in the field area will not leave much room for manuvering. I feel there will be traffic jams galore trying to move around the field let alone a robot carrying/pushing one of those balls.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

Can you say "Talledega wipeout" !

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

An engineering design term just popped into my head that might describe this challenge.

This years game has a lot of "dynamic range". One end of the scale better accommodates rookies. The other end of the scale can really stretch the limits of experienced teams.

I'd give this game about 112 db worth of dynamic range.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

The only thing that will bew hard about this game is not the new hybrid mode but hurdling the 10 pound huge ball without tipping over.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

This year's game poses some new challenges to teams like hurdling those gigantic balls..

On the other hand, it proposes relatively easy solutions to teams like building a carting robot which only makes laps.

The hybrid mode is more encouraging then the previous year autonomous.

All in all, I think as Woodie Flowers wanted - this is the other side of the complexity but it's not about simplicity.

:)

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

I love the game this year. Racing around with 40" 10lbs ball sounds like fun. The robot design is not that difficult. TRX-145 is good at making fast strong robots. Here's to a fun game, hope everyone feels the same.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

I think after a while it's going to be boring going around a track 8 million times, i think if defese could have been played it would have been better

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

Depending on who you ask, you'll find different answers to this question. Some will say the game is the most difficult thing they've ever seen. Others will say it's incredibly simple. This can only mean one thing: the game isn't difficult or easy. It's complex.
Think about it.
To those who have said the game is "simple" or "easy," I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying be cautious. Until the regional competitions, we've only seen the cover of the book.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

The simplest way to score in this game would be to mount a bike tire horizontally on the front right corner of your robot. Your code would be as simple as "GO" and you would bounce around the outside wall.

For some reason my team didn't choose that for the final design.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

I've said this before, while I will admit that hurdling that 10 pound track ball will be difficult, and racing around the field might be exciting, I think FIRST took us backwards as far as actual robotics is concerned. You can read my post here to hear all about how I feel about the lack of autonomous. In short, I don't find hybrid mode challenging at all and I think its just an excuse to make the game more exciting for outside spectators, at the cost of autonomous ingenuity.

Mike C.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

If you think hybrid mode is less challenging than full autonomous, it sounds like you think teams will be teleoperating their robots using TV clickers instead of joysticks. There might be a few teams who try that, but they'll quickly find that interference and limited range are very big factors.

I believe that teams traditionally known for good automodes should do very well this year.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

I actually don't think that will be what teams do. The reason I find hybrid mode less challenging is because instead of the robot having to do some work and find the trackball itself, the robocoach can tell the robot exactly where the trackball is, with no need for external sensors besides the IR sensor. All that is required of the robot is a few consistent preprogrammed dead reckoning paths to each of the trackball positions, and maybe a bit of dead reckoning around the track after that. This is no where near as complicated as the 2005 autonomous mode where robots had to find the tetras on their own out of 8 positions (which, granted, very few teams accomplished, but it was the first year for the CMU cam). And aside from hybrid mode, the lack of an advantage to semi-autonomous control in the teleoperate mode (unlike 2006 where many robots were successful by aiming completely on their own) seems to me to be another step in the opposite direction. If this is the direction FIRST is going, I definitely don't like it.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

I fully agree with you.

Interesting on our team some really like this game and some don't, just like these threads.

Personally I think it is a great game and plays into 1902's strengths. I love doing autonomous and this year is a great autonomous mode with the hybrid. Done right it is very challenging.

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

it equal it easy for the programmer
it will be harder for does who will be driving the the point in my point of view
the hard part is going to be the space. i mean 6 teams(including urself plus 4 40inch balls on the field n u can only have a foward motion. so if u get suck u cant go backward.
the points arnt goin 2 b a big problem just the spacing for a team to get thru

Re: How difficult do you feel this competition is, this year?
 

The field is huge and it wasn't a problem the last few years when driving around yes there is an overpass but thats why there is the bumb and move rule so that slower teams skill can participate but the faster teams can pass. ALso driving shouldn't be that bad either