Chief Delphi - Camera on robot with monitor on controls.

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Camera on robot with monitor on controls.

I had an idea for driving this years robot with a halo type control system. My question was weather or not having a camera on the robot and a monitor on the user controls was legal.
Thanks, Ian

Re: Camera on robot with monitor on controls.

i dont know the rule number, but as far as i know you can;t have a live feed back to the driver, but in the past teams have mounted a camcorder just to reord their matches.

Re: Camera on robot with monitor on controls.

I think this would be legal if:
-you had a camera powered by the robot, connected to the RC just like any other sensor
-the data was compressed on the RC and sent to the OI over the radio modem

This way, it would be no different from any other sensor that outputs data to the operator interface.

The main problem is that it is pretty much impossible to send high-fidelity real-time video over the modem connection between robot and operator interface because of the lack of bandwidth. Compression would be difficult on the RC because you wouldn't have much computing power. You could have a coprocessor to compress and have the RC send the compressed data back over the modem, but you're still going to end up with a terrible image at the driver's end. Take a video and compress it to 64kbps with a modern codec like xvid or h.264. That's the kind of quality you'd be getting if you want real-time feedback.

Re: Camera on robot with monitor on controls.

If you want a Halo type system, petition FIRST to allow camera feedback, because it isn't legal to have a camera send images back.

From Section 8: The Robot:

Quote:

<R64> The radio modems provided in the 2008 Kit Of Parts are the only permitted method for communicating to and from the ROBOT during the MATCH (except as noted below in Rule <R65> and Rule <R84>). Radio modems from previous FIRST competitions must not be used. The radio modem must be connected directly to the Robot Controller using one of the
DB-9 cables provided in the 2008 Kit Of Parts. No other form of wireless communications shall be used to communicate to, from or within the ROBOT (e.g. no Bluetooth devices are permitted on the ROBOT).

<R65> is Robocoach signaling devices; <R84> deals with signal filters onboard the robot.

Quote:

<R85> Any decorations that involve broadcasting a signal to/from the ROBOT, such as remote cameras, must be cleared with FIRST Engineering prior to the event and tested for communications interference at the venue. Such devices, if reviewed and approved, are excluded from Rule <R64>. Note that 900 MHz camera systems will not be approved, and
are not permitted at any time.

So you must clear it first.

Quote:

<R102> Teams are permitted to connect a portable computing device (Laptop computer, PDAs, etc.) to the RS-232 output of the dashboard port of the Operator Interface for the purpose of displaying feedback from the ROBOT while participating in competition MATCHES. Please note that AC power will not be available at the playing field so these devices will have to run on internal batteries.

So you can get feedback, but according to <R64>, it must come through the radio modem. Camera broadcasts must be a decoration (specifically a non-functional decoration), and I would say that if it goes to your OI for driver feedback, it is not a non-functional decoration, it is a sensor and must fit within cost restraints and be programmed as a sensor.

Re: Camera on robot with monitor on controls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 676977)

If you want a Halo type system, petition FIRST to allow camera feedback, because it isn't legal to have a camera send images back.

...

So you can get feedback, but according to <R64>, it must come through the radio modem. Camera broadcasts must be a decoration (specifically a non-functional decoration), and I would say that if it goes to your OI for driver feedback, it is not a non-functional decoration, it is a sensor and must fit within cost restraints and be programmed as a sensor.

Actually, that would not appear to be correct. There is no generic rule against cameras. There is also no requirement that camera
broadcast only be from decorations. The constraints cited prevent communication pathways parallel to those provided by the IFI-provided radio modems. Please read Bongle's post prior to yours. He has the right idea. It would appear to be entirely within the rules to have a camera on board the robot and pass the images back to the Operator Interface for display where they could then be accessed through the dashboard port and displayed on an attached laptop computer - IF you can find a way to stuff the images through the provided data link.

-dave

Re: Camera on robot with monitor on controls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlavery (Post 677135)

And if you manage to do that and get a reasonable frame rate, I think Dave might just want to have you go work for him. If not I can think of many other places that would want to hire you.