Laptop?
 

I am thinking about getting a laptop. I saw a nice one that is an HP. I heard from a friend though that HP are not very good. He once had one and it broke repeatedly. I believe that the link below should direct you to the ad that came out in my town. I am thinking about getting one of them at the top of page 17. Please respond in a timely manner. Afterall, the ad is only good through the 26th of January. Thanks in advance.

http://circuitcity.shoplocal.com/cir...uitCity-080120

Re: Laptop?
 

I understand you are a CAD guy. I think you would definitely need a video card if you want to CAD on it.

I would definitely recommend a dell vostro, I have one and it has worked beautifully so far. There are some really good deals for them.

just my 2 cents, Vivek

Re: Laptop?
 

You'll need to be more specific, since there are several HP Laptops in that flyer.

I didn't have very good luck with my HP laptops. One of them I damaged the PCMCIA slot after about a year(probably my fault), and the other had some type of power supply issue, after 2.5 years, where it drew so much current that is melted the end of the power cord that connected to the computer. I solved the problem on that one by removing the battery(other batteries did the same thing), and soldering the poser wire directly to the motherboard.

I've had very good luck with Gateway PCs. Me and my brother both have Gateway Convertable tablets, and we have a refurbished Gateway desktop. They have all been good.

EDIT
I don't know what you're doing, but I've found that RAM is more of a limitation than the graphics hardware. Don't get me wrong, a good graphics card is important, but even with 2gb I find myself running out of ram long before I stress my middle of the line, for a laptop graphics hardware(ATI Mobility Radeon x1400 w/64mb deticated).

/EDIT

Re: Laptop?
 

vivek, You are right. I definitely want a CAD capable laptop. Also, I pulled up the Dell Vostro through google and it came up with several. Could you send me a link to which one in particular you would suggest?

Re: Laptop?
 

also, with dell, you can choose xp or vista, hp is all vista as I understand?

-vivek

EDIT: http://www.dell.com/content/products...=04&l=en&s=bsd

Re: Laptop?
 

I got Vista with mine.
It's like getting moldy fruitcake for Christmas.

Re: Laptop?
 

yes, if you really like how it looks, there is an instructable on instructables.com about how to make xp look like vista.

-vivek

Re: Laptop?
 

I have an Dell Inspiron 6400 (now replaced by the Vostro series) that can run CAD quite nicely.
Specs:
2.0Ghz Core 2
2 gigs DDR2-667
7200 rpm HDD
Nvidia Geforce go 7300

For me, it was a choice between either a Dell or an HP because they were the most reasonably priced laptops with discreet graphics. From my experience now, I would definitely recommend getting a Dell.

Re: Laptop?
 

Ok, here's the deal with HP and Vista. HP is awful, breaks down repeatedly, and customer support is lacking at best. Vista is THE largest waste of disk space ever invented, only making HP's crappy hardware into an IED. It crashes often, has more security holes than an antivirus program written by a 10yr old, and provides so few features that can be debated as trivial. Most people who own Vista have been known to "upgrade" to XP, taking second place to pulling their skin off. To avoid either one at any possible cost would be the Understatement Of The Year.

Dude, you're getting a Dell!

BTW, I agree that RAM is more limiting than the graphics, though it is still a major factor.

Re: Laptop?
 

Yeah, I "upgraded" from Vista Ultimate to XP a couple of days after getting it...

Re: Laptop?
 

I haven't had any problems with my HP.
I'm quite happy with it in fact.
My wife who runs a classroom full of Dells will tell you how much she "loves" Dells.

Re: Laptop?
 

We just bought 2 Dell Vostros 1500 for CAD.

Intel Core 2 Duo T7500, 2.2GGz 800Mhz FSB, L2 Cache
2 GB Ram
256 NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT
XP PRO

Runs both Inventor and Solid Works great.

Re: Laptop?
 

There are rare cases where somebody is satisfied with an HP, which is fine. I was just stating what I've seen from most everyone I know (and don't know).

I'm the [extended] family's techie, and for some dumb reason, they only buy HP's. Maybe it's because my aunt works at Sam's Club and everyone shops at Wal-Mart, which I'm also against. Anyway, the ones they buy are always high maintenance.

Re: Laptop?
 

As for quality, get a toshiba. As for price, get an HP. I have had a toshiba for two years and never had any problems (except for windows problems). My friend on the other hand has an HP that he bought at the same time and has had nothing but trouble with it. He was lucky because when he bought it, he got the three year service plan with it which has come in really usfull in the past 5 times that it has been in the shop. Everytime his computer is finally given back to him, it stops working within a matter of weeks. I personally don't think that HP is actually fixing it either other than taking his computer, putting it on a shelf for a month, and then sending it back. It is really inconvienient as it always takes a month plus to be fixed and then it just breaks down again.

Re: Laptop?
 

My advice would be to not buy a dell, dell is the company for people who don't know much about computers =\. I'd look at computer sites too, like newegg or something, they usually have some nice deals. If you can customize your own to what you need, you can definitely save some money if you know you won't need a lot of hard drive space or something like that.

Also think how badly you actually need a laptop, the longer you wait, the more prices go down and specs go up. The sale stuff like "OH NOES BUY QUICK ITS CHEAP BUT NOT FOR LONG" is just a trap, especially with something that evolves as much as technology. I personally would really like to get a new laptop now, but I know I'm going to need it for college and I don't exactly "need" (although it would be usefull =\ ) it now, so I'm waiting till after graduation to get a new one.

Not to be paranoid or hijack the thread, but wal-mart has been known to cut prices by selling lesser/cheaper/inferior/"wal-mart" versions of certain products. They normally have the same or a similar serial number, but if you ask the company producing it, they will tell you that something was changed so that wal-mart could sell it cheaper. /tinfoil hat (although seriously you can google some articles on it or call some of their suppliers =P)

Re: Laptop?
 

I disagree with that statement. I like to think that I know a decent amount about computers; I am industry certified in networking and work as a PHP programmer/web developer. I happen to find Dells to be very acceptable. Someone who really knows what they are doing know exactly what he/she needs and gets it at the best price, and I have yet to see a laptop that beats the Dell Vostros for bang to the buck. Newegg and other component sites (yes, I know Newegg sells whole computers too) are sometimes great for building desktops, but they aren't the be-all and end-all.

In my experience the best way to get the ideal laptop is to buy one of the middle-of-the-road or business models with a good processor and graphics card (if you buy the stuff targeted at gamers and high-end non-business users [like Alienware] you often end up paying for the case, not what's in it); then, you perform a large RAM upgrade, and possibly hard drive upgrade (to a 7200rpm drive, if applicable) from components purchased from one of the component places. Laptop manufacturers seem to love to overprice the ram for some reason...

EDIT: HPs annoy the heck out of me, but they are nowhere near as bad as Compaq... I would not purchase a Compaq even at a 50% off sale. I have had no experience with Toshiba. I have heard good things about Lenovos from people I know who own them, and Apples some of the nicest laptops I have used (overpriced though...).

Re: Laptop?
 

hmm...

I just bought a dell vostro 1500 for CAD and in general use.


Intel Core 2 Duo 1.66GGz 800Mhz FSB, L2 Cache
2 GB Ram
128NVIDIA GeForce 8400
xp home

Runs Inventor. Which is more than I can say about the other two computers that my family owns :D.

It works like a charm and was a steal at 800 dollars. :D

-vivek

p.s. Would definitely recommend!

Re: Laptop?
 

i have a Toshiba Tecra and it has been pretty solid, but if you want to game, make sure you have name brand graphics card. I bought Dawn of war and found that my laptop didn't have the name graphics and wouldn't run it even though it was "good enough"

Re: Laptop?
 

I would disagree with the Dell and HP bashing.

We have a 4 year old HP Desktop, and have owned 5 Dell PC's (2 laptop, 3 desktop) over the last 9 years or so.

We have 3-5 HP laptops between team members, and all of them are mostly happy with them (I'd say the only ones that arent are because of Vista)

Who of the mainstream brands does anyone think is better than Dell? (Apple not withstanding). Every brand has it's pros and cons. For the most part, none of these companies are making their own laptops anyways. Theyre all coming from third party companies, and then being rebranded by the mainstream brands.

I know a good deal about computers, and I've had nothing but good experiences with Dell. Yes, they occasionally sell lemons, but anyone doing such a volume of business is bound to. They have, in my experience, exceptional customer service. We received one machine that was DOA. Within 48 hours, we had a brand new machine on our doorstep. We had a problem with the graphics card of one machine, and had a tech and a brand new, upgraded card at our house the next day. Any problems have been taken care of swiftly and professionally.

I hate when people make blanket statements like "So and so company is terrible. Never buy from them". If this was the case, they wouldn't still be in business. For every person who has had a bad experience with Dell or HP, another has had a fantastic experience. However, if only the bad experiences are voiced, there is no perspective. If you do your research (beyond asking a bunch of probably biased people on CD [myself included]), you should be able to make a good, informed decision.

Re: Laptop?
 

I have become very fond of Dell mainly because of their customer service. When something breaks, they will fix it fast depending on your service plan. If you get a vostros, you can possibly get it through Dell Business which offers even better customer service. The reason why customer service is a big deal to me is because we are all in robotics and something is bound to happen if we carry it around too much. I cannot say the same for HP because I have not had too much experience with them.

Re: Laptop?
 

My dad's first laptop had a motherboard die within a couple months of purchase. Dell was happy to repair it...we just had to send the computer back and they replaced it. It was back within a week or two.

Our other Dell, a desktop, recently started being too slow. Memory problem, as far as we can tell. And there's an extra memory slot...

Re: Laptop?
 

As far as I have read, there have been many positive comments on a Vostro and no negative comments. Anyone have a bad experience with one of these?

Re: Laptop?
 

Get a MacBook Pro and install Windows XP on a separate partition on it... there I said it... now lets move on.

Re: Laptop?
 

actually, the vostro seems to be a very popular model. Our mentor has one and the only thing he was unhappy about was that the battery stuck out a little. I got an extended life one on mine and it only sticks out an inch or so. Worth it, I think.

-vivek

p.s. I would strongly recommend going to that link I gave earlier and customizing your own and seeing how the prices compare to other models and deals out there.

Re: Laptop?
 

It's Dell's first machine that they built without the "extra bonus software". I believe that the preinstalled software, especially antivirus srews with the machine. Do you thing that Norton could sell antivirus if it was not preinstalled on machines? ;) Would you buy it to put on a machine?

Re: Laptop?
 

Well judging from other responses maybe I've been just unlucky =\. I know I'm never choosing dell again, had nothing but trouble from mine ><, but again maybe I was just unlucky.


They do add to your choices though, doesn't mean thats your only source =D.

Re: Laptop?
 

I've had a Dell Latitude D610 laptop for about 3 years now. I've had to make 2 service calls - one to replace a broken keyboard (spilled water on it - oops!) and one to replace the power switch (the button broke, and I couldn't turn it on without docking first). Both times I was very satisfied with the speed and efficiency of support. The broken keyboard was fixed with a self-install kit, sent 2nd day air at no charge to me. The power switch had to be fixed by mailing the whole laptop. They sent a DHL truck to pick it up the next day, and I had the laptop back and repaired within a week, all under warranty.

So, yeah, Dells can occasionally have some problems, but the customer service is usually pretty responsive. Get the extra warranty, though - it's nice to be covered for all the little pieces and parts that may break down, and getting free express shipping is a nice benefit.

Re: Laptop?
 

I've had my Dell laptop for over 2 years now (getting close to 3). I've had a few problems with it, but I would buy from Dell again, because they have fixed it every time. Here is what has broken.

After one month, I noticed my CD/DVD-RW drive was making grinding noises when a CD was in. I called Dell, and a new one was here within 2 days.

My LCD screen started to develop some bad spots, like dust stuck between the LCD and backlight. Sent it off to Dell, came back in 2 weeks, but the new screen's backlight was DOA, so I sent it off again, came back within a week.

My IEE1394 port broke while inserting the cable for my camcorder. Dell sent a technician to replace the motherboard. The technician did not fully reseat the CPU and I had trouble turning the machine on. I called Dell, told them I was comfortable in reseating it myself, they led me through the steps, and I'm here today with a good laptop.

My most recent problem was a key broke off of my keyboard, Dell sent me a new keyboard within 2 days and also sent me some new rubber feet as mine were beginning to wear down.

I also UPGRADED to Vista last year when it came out... I'm pretty happy. I had Windows XP MCE before, and it was slow, even after a fresh install. Vista actually ended up being faster and I've had very few incompatibility problems. The only piece of software that I have that did not work was Solidworks 2007. AutoCad 2006 said that there were compatibility problems, but it runs fine. All the games I have work fine... I have Aero, Vista is very responsive, I'm happy. I was part of the beta tester programs for Vista, so I knew what I was buying before I purchased it.

Here are my system specs for anybody curious to how good of a laptop I have for Vista Home Premium:

Dell Inspiron E1505
Windows Vista Home Premium
Core Duo (Not Core 2 Duo) 1.66Ghz
1GB RAM
Mobility Radeon X1300 (64 Dedicated, 254 shared... weird... I know...)
80GB 5400RPM hard drive
CD/DVD-RW
Glossy Screen (one of my favorite options I had on my laptop :D)

I'd buy Dell again, but when I go to college, I plan on getting a 15" MacBook Pro and installing Vista on a second partition using BootCamp.

Re: Laptop?
 

On the discrete vs integrated video processor-

So long as the video chipset can handle openGL, you'll probably never see a bottle neck related to video. For a laptop the most noticeable slow areas will be harddrive speed (saving large assemblies, accessing content center stuff etc.) and running out of RAM. You really start to notice things taking forever to update in assemblies, parts to open and the like.

In fact its kind of a compounding problem. The typically lower amount of RAM in laptops encourages Inventor to rely on the page file more. The slower hard drives give even worse page file performance then a desktop. If it's a choice between a discrete video processor or more RAM I wouldn't hesitate to go for more or faster RAM. Same goes for a faster hard drive.

Inventor at least can not yet utilize multicore processors. While it's just about impossible to get a single core chip these days, just keep in mind that the second core isn't getting you much in CAD.

The reality is that any laptop bought today is going to be perfectly adequate for FIRST level design. I wouldn't want to make a living working on a laptop exclusively, but it can be done.

-Andy A.

Re: Laptop?
 

DON'T BUY HP. EVER.
my brother got an HP laptop last month and it is screwed over completely. the stupid monitor refuses to respond to the machine sometimes and the system just dies randomly sometimes. it's infuriating!

buy a sony vaio. i have two and they haven't failed me yet, even though they run on vista.
and they're pretty too! lol

Re: Laptop?
 

The Skinny on buying a laptop (For all you non techies...)

I am an it administrator for one of the sponsoring school districts so I do have some (alot) of experience with this sort of stuff, so here's my opinion...

Step 1 (The Brand)
HP - If you are going to buy an HP get it from Hp's website under business or a reputable commercial sales (CDW, Gov-Connection, PC-Connect) company. If a school or some other form of Governmental entity will be purchasing the machine check with CDW-G for the best pricing and selection. Also consider the fact that there may be a bid price for computers that is negotiated by your state government, in PA this is Peppm or CoStars.

Lenovo - My Work Machine... Lenovo (IBM Commercial) are good reliable machines, look for them at the same places and with the same precautions as above.

Dell- Stay away, "Dude your getting a dell", really means "Dude your buying more problems". The pre-loaded software applications that come on MOST dells will cause the machines to be slow and in-effective for all intensive purposes. However, I have heard a couple of good things about the DELL Vostros. I am just always weary of purchasing a dell...

Compaq- Go for the more adept HP

Gateway - Stay away to many countless reasons.

Sony- My Personal machine... I love the way the sony's are laid out, the way the keyboard is set-up, and the overall look and power that comes with the VAIO. They are pricey, and you are paying alot for the looks and the name, but my machine just looks hot...

Panasonic Toughbok - Unless you plan on being shot at or running into a burning building SAVE YOUR MONEY!!! These machine are way to expensive, If you looking for a respectible alternative take a look at the Lenovos. They have an active protection system on the hard drives, magnesium re-inforced cases, and very strong hinges. Overall a good alternative to a Toughbook...

Step 2 (The SPECS)

This really depends what you are doing but here is my suggested minimum if you would like to continue using your machine for a couple of years (Like most of US)

Processor: Minimum - Intel Dual Core System
RAM: Minimum of 1 GB is required if you would like to run VISTA, 3 GB suggested. If your like me and don't like the look or feel, or even the back end of Vista, try finding a machine loaded with XP. These machines are hard to come by but if you check the sites in Step 1 you should be able to find at least a couple of models that have XP pre-installed (Mainly HP and Lenovo). Windows XP minimum: 512MB Suggested: 2GB

The extras:
The extras are specific to what you are doing on the machine. Some options will reduce battery life, and some options could increase battery life, It's all a real give and take. I would suggest buying a 9-cell battery if you happen to be the team programmer. Wouldn't it be nice to walk away from the pits, untethered while you try to fix that code hiccup?

DVD-RW: Pretty much a necessity in this day and age, and almost standard.
Wireless: This is also a necessity, and almost standard. 802.11b/g is nice but if you can pick up a machine that is 802.11a/b/g/n. Again this is rare to come buy, and may add to your cost, but will allow you to connect to just about any network out there.
Bluetooth: I really don't use this and therefore have no opinion.
Serial Port: This is rather important for FIRST, however finding a laptop now a days is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack, or a 1/4 20 nut driver in our pit. There are a couple of decent USB to Serial Port adapters, we got ours from Radio Shack, and it seems to work alright for our programmer.
PCMCIA or Express Card: these are like a PCI slot for your laptop, allowing you to add anything from serial ports to celphone modems to your laptop. I know that many people do not use these but if you can find a laptop with an expresscard/54 slot it will be helpfull (Again, given your planning on using this machine for a few years)...

That's it for now, If you have any questions please do not hesitate to ask, that's what we're all about!!!

Continued...
Apples are good machines until something goes wrong. These machines do run decent application (proprietary) iWork, iLife, etc... The biggest problems with macs is that they are not compatible with the majority of software. Understanding that you can run windows using boot camp, I still feel that a Mac purchase for 'OUR' use is marginal at best. I'm not downing Macs, they are good for video and digital imaging, GUI usage for end users, and simplicity, I just have fundamental Issues with the MAC OS, and have been told by high level engineers that if you have a problem the first thing you should do is wipe the O.S. This seems illogical to me, and what MAC is basically telling you that they don't know why it dosn't do what it is supposed to. Also beware that you may need to find printer drivers, we have had issues in large deployments where the printer driver does not work properly. Again not downing all you mac users, but giving a educated opinion on their applicable uses, and shortfalls...

Re: Laptop?
 

Yes you are, because really, I've hooked up random printers and had them just work, while on my PC I can't find any drivers.

Or it could be a bigger problem: like you're full of it. When I can take my Powerbook into any setting and have it work, while PCs flounder, and see all my friends Macs (the correct way to write it out, btw) just work, yeah, I have a hard time believing you, especially after saying Dell is loaded with bloatware, but man THAT SONY IS JUST GREAT. Too bad google says otherwise.

Am I one of those jerky Mac users, probably, but when I have to read stuff that's written like it's 1998 still, then I tend to get reasonably ticked off. OS9 was buried (quite literally) and dead, go use OSX and do actual work.

Re: Laptop?
 

Thank you for eloquently speaking the words from out of my mouth. Just with more zing.