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-   -   Start/Stop as one IR function? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62907)

citrusapocalyps 30-01-2008 21:37
Start/Stop as one IR function?
 
What do you think? Would Start/Stop count as one function in Hybrid mode or two?

Branden Ghena 30-01-2008 21:42
Re: Start/Stop as one IR function?
 
I'm pretty sure with the way they word it, they want each button to only control one function, as in separate buttons for stop and go. But if you can pull it off, you might be able to have stopping as part of your turn function, i.e. turn and stop. So to stop the robot you turn one way and then turn the other. Or make the button drive for one second and then stop.

Stvn 30-01-2008 21:42
Re: Start/Stop as one IR function?
 
I think it's two. From Team Update #3:
Quote:
The actions that the Robot takes in response to the messages received should be
repeatable and predictable. In practical terms, this means that when the
RoboCoach presses Button #3, Action #3 always occurs. Robot responses that are
time-dependent or message sequence dependent are not allowed.

Jon Stratis 31-01-2008 10:15
Re: Start/Stop as one IR function?
 
Unfortunately, you can't use that as one state. As answered by the GDC in the Q&A:

Quote:
Please refer to Team Update #3. With the guidance of the referenced "does it do the same thing every time?" litmus test, using a Signaling Device button to toggle Robot actions would not fit within the intent of Hybrid Mode. Nor would using the Signaling Device to step through a multi-step routine.

The messages sent by the Signaling Device can initiate more complex actions or routines that are completely pre-programmed on the Robot. The Signaling Device can also be used to transmit field state information instead of a specific command or action.
http://forums.usfirst.org/showthread.php?t=8008

Steve W 31-01-2008 10:33
Re: Start/Stop as one IR function?
 
From the Q&A responses I believe that it can be done. With the use of sensors you can activate a command that says, if x value is "a" then stop and if x value is "b" go.

This is only my interpretation and I am not a programmer or official answer giver.

efoote868 31-01-2008 12:28
Re: Start/Stop as one IR function?
 
I think this might be a rule they cannot police, kind of like the re-use of code from year to year, or just fix during your fix it windows, or even like the maximum ball shooter speed in 2006.

Just use GP in determining your decision, and if you think its allowed, then go for it, otherwise don't. But have an alternative in mind if they specifically tell you "no."

Andy L 31-01-2008 12:36
Re: Start/Stop as one IR function?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by efoote868 (Post 689468)
I think this might be a rule they cannot police, kind of like the re-use of code from year to year, or just fix during your fix it windows, or even like the maximum ball shooter speed in 2006.

Just use GP in determining your decision, and if you think its allowed, then go for it, otherwise don't. But have an alternative in mind if they specifically tell you "no."
they should ask you during inspection to test robocoach functions. I read this somewhere in the Q&A

GaryVoshol 31-01-2008 13:03
Re: Start/Stop as one IR function?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy L (Post 689471)
they should ask you during inspection to test robocoach functions. I read this somewhere in the Q&A
After searching the Q&A for "inspect", "inspects", "inspector", "inspectors", "inspection" and "inspections" I can find no such requirement. Do you have a better reference than "I read this somewhere"?

Andy L 31-01-2008 22:34
Re: Start/Stop as one IR function?
 
I'm not sure where I saw it but I am 100% sure I read somewhere that if asked you would have to show the inspector or a ref or a judge your hybrid controls and which button does what

a few rules about this subject:

<R65> Emphasis mine
Quote:
communicate no more than four messages, states or conditions to the ROBOT (please refer to Rule <R69> and Rule <G01> for additional information) during any single
MATCH.
no more than 4 states I would say that having a button that changes states would count as two of your four messages

<R65> Emphasis mine
Quote:
be able to switch between no more than four states or conditions (i.e. send no more than four messages)
pretty much the same thing just said again later in the rule


Team update #3 Emphasis mine
Quote:
For example, consider a programmed sequence of actions such as “start driving forward,” “stop in place,” “turn left,” “raise arm,” “open gripper,” “close gripper,” etc. Each time Button #8 is pressed, the Robot advances one step through the sequence of actions. This would not be allowed.
Start and Stop would be steps and advancing steps is not allowed

Also keep in mind (can't find the quote in the rules for some reason) you must have a 3x5 notecard with all functions of your robocoach remote written on it.

I hope I helped

GaryVoshol 31-01-2008 23:05
Re: Start/Stop as one IR function?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy L (Post 689908)
I'm not sure where I saw it but I am 100% sure I read somewhere that if asked you would have to show the inspector or a ref or a judge your hybrid controls and which button does what
Do you mean this rule?
Quote:
<G49> ROBOCOACH Signaling – If the ROBOCOACH will be providing signals to the ROBOT,
then prior to the start of each MATCH the ROBOCOACH must place a Signaling Card in the
ROBOCOACH STATION. The Signaling Card shall be a 3-inch by 5-inch card listing the
one to four actions that can be commanded by the ROBOCOACH.
All you're doing is telling what you might do. You don't have to demonstrate it.

Andy L 01-02-2008 00:50
Re: Start/Stop as one IR function?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryVoshol (Post 689937)
Do you mean this rule?
All you're doing is telling what you might do. You don't have to demonstrate it.
I'm not sure where I read it but I specifically remember reading you will have to show your hybrid functions if asked. But it could have been somewhere in Team Update #3 maybe I was thinking of because I talked about if we were to go up to someone like an inspector and keep pressing the button it would always do the same thing. Sorry for the misunderstanding. My main point is that Start/Stop button IS illegal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Update #3
The litmus test would be “does sending the same message from the Signaling
Device result in the same action on the Robot every time the message is sent?” If the answer is “no” then it is probably not allowed.

Browzilla 01-02-2008 01:10
Re: Start/Stop as one IR function?
 
I'm not sure about the legality of this, but what if my function were say, x=x+1. And then in the autonomous code was looped

if x is even, stop
else go

That way the button always preforms the same function, adding one, but you can achieve the desired result.

Yes? No?

EricH 01-02-2008 01:13
Re: Start/Stop as one IR function?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Browzilla (Post 690017)
I'm not sure about the legality of this, but what if my function were say, x=x+1. And then in the autonomous code was looped

if x is even, stop
else go

That way the button always preforms the same function, adding one, but you can achieve the desired result.

Yes? No?
I don't think that would pass. You're toggling states.

popo308 01-02-2008 01:15
Re: Start/Stop as one IR function?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 690018)
I don't think that would pass. You're toggling states.
I would have to agree.... technically to task's are being achieved by one button

Browzilla 01-02-2008 01:46
Re: Start/Stop as one IR function?
 
I suppose that's what I get for trying to think this late.

Yeah, I suppose you're right.


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