Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

IM me or something and i can tell ya. lol.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

ONLY A FEW MORE HOURS!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cool:

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

This regional has started off pretty well. Robot works great, and set our personal best scores in lap total and balls knocked off in a match. We had some minor failures that we had a plan on how to replace the parts. Just wait for Saturday for our foam fingers and buttons!

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

They sure are. It's amazing - two weeks ago they were at Detroit. That means between then and now, they had one 10 hour fix it window to construct, etc etc.

I'm always amazed at how much they can do in a short time.

Their drive train at Detroit was excellent. High speed and crabbing well. Add in an efficient shooter and they'll be a force.

FYI, they didn't completely rebuild. They took their ball-picker upper and put that down low to flip the ball onto their launcher, which is an all new kicker hooked to a winch system and fired with what looks like surgical tubing. I couldn't get too close a look because they spent the entire day working on it. Should be interesting how far they can get.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Frog Force 503 is also rebuilding. They created 35 pounds of new fabricated parts, and then decided which 25 pounds of parts they brought on site (and presumably are rebuilding the other 10 pounds). They got to the field for their last scheduled practice match.

469 has yet to be seen on the field. And yes, it does involve a bunch of surgical tubing.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Is anybody archiving the webcast? I'm out of town and would love to see the matches... But SOAP or TBA don't seem to have them...

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

We'll have all our matches up including at least one we played you guys in. I wouldn't worry about it though, there were at least 6 teams recording today.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

The rebuilding robots are impressing.
469 is amazing with their shooter.
503 is getting better every match.

So fun to be here.
Cant wait until elims.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

who seems to be the most promising rookie team you guys have seen there so far? i mean all of them seem to be doing pretty good, but which one looks to be the most promising?

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Wow, what an outstanding day of qualifiers, congrats to all the teams who competed today. With such a high number of quality teams, lady luck has begun to pick her favs. So many upsets and so many triumphs. By the time we got back from the lunch break, I don't think a single team was undefeated and only 6 have just one loss. Thunderchickens are 4-2 but still in the top eight. The Martian Teams are on the ropes and both are in the 20's in the ranking. The top 4 teams are all below the number 100 (proving the skill of these outstanding veterans). I think that our MC put it best (as he has a real nack for) this regional is "The Perfect Storm". Good Luck to all the teams tomorrow, this promises to lead to an elimination tournament for the record books.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

There's not just a single team that stands out from the rest of the rookies, not like 2337 did in their events the last 2 weeks. There are a couple of solid teams, some which may end up being picked for an alliance. Just no one that stands out from the pack. I'm not being harsh here, just realistic.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

hmmm what about the top 5 teams?

But seriously, GLR has been great so far. Can't wait to see how the eliminations end up today.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

1. 66 217 910
2. 47 494 1023
3. 27 469 1646
4. 1718 70 451
5. 33 107 201
6. 65 68 245
7. 67 326 503
8. 291 862 573

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Congrads teams 67, 326, and 503 for winning the regional, I can't wait to see you all in Atlanta!

Also 33 and 107 were great alliance partners, we couldn't be more thankful to have you on our alliance.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Congrats 67, 326 and 503 on your victory. Great clean fun playing against you. Great job!

Thank you so much to teams 66 and 217 for picking us. We made quite an alliance! Too bad about the power problem at the end there, but we know everyone did all they could and we really enjoyed playing with you. It was a blast! Now, go win in Atlanta!

Foley Freeze -Team 910

2008 Great Lakes Finalists
2008 Western Michigan Semifinalists
2008 Judges Award Winners

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Congrats teams 67, 326, and 503! You guys were awesome!
And to everyone else...wow. You all did an outstanding job! This being my first large regional, I was amazed at all of the talent and spirit that I saw over the past 3 days!

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I would also like to thank team 217 for all of the positive comments to our drivers, and very challenging matches.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

On behalf of the teams at GLR, I want to wish the Chileans and Chupa Cabra a safe trip home.

VIVA LA CORAZON DE CHILENO!

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

The video feed was pretty wonky during finals. Did 217 have a system problem in the final match? I really couldn't tell for sure. In fact, on my feed the audio was done for the match while the drive teams were still shaking hands on the video. (No insult meant to the folks who provided the video -- I'm grateful for it. Four years ago, all we had was the NASA TV show of the final Championship match, which they cut before it was over. Four years from now we'll look back on how funny it was that the sound and picture weren't synch'd back in '08).

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

They did have problems in both finals matches, but I am not sure what their problem was. If anyone knows it would be helpful.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I heard someone say it was loose wires.

On behalf of team 1646 I would like to thank 27 and 469 for picking us. We had a good run and we hope to see you guys in Atlanta. Boiler up.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Really? One of my team members was talking with someone (I don't know who, though...) and he reported that the battery (???) died in the RC, or something along those lines, and he also said that that was why their hybrid was faulty (again, ?? I didn't see most of the matches-I was packing...).

Just reporting what I heard; I don't know enough about controls/electronics to make enough sense of it.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

They were reading 0 volts in the matches they didnt move, so it coulda been a wire or something else.

Congrats to the winners.
Thanks for being our picks 68 and 245.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I heard that also, but I wasn't sure how accurate that was. If no team 217 members tell us sooner, my dad will ask a mentor from their team who he works with at Fanuc Robotics

Also does anyone know how accurate the division predictions are on TBA before I freak out that 1024 is in my division in Atlanta and 111 in the other prediction (they both were amazing at boilermaker), here is the link to their predictions : http://www.thebluealliance.net/champ.../divisions.php

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I have to second that congratulations to HOT, Frog Force, and 326... the final was pretty exciting (and of course disappointing) but how could that have been predicted? Oh well... 2nd best is not at all bad.

Again, to 910, I know I talked with a couple of your members about the companion cube, but just to let you know, that made my day. Too cool.

And to 217, a major thanks for being amazing alliance partners.

:cool:

That said, my vacation from work and college ends 3pm tomorrow... *sigh* back to reality once again. It was fun, and I wish good luck down at nationals for everyone!

-Joe

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Lol yeah they were having power issues at the video feed panel. I guess a team plugged in their soldering iron and a trouble light into the same power strip during eliminations and everything died, including the computer running the webcast.

Thank you for picking us. We were proud to be your alliance partners.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

There were three seperate issues with our robot. The issue with the Hybrid was something we have been trying to resolve all weekend. It is very involved and cant be reproduce in the pits. The problem only occurs during match play and occurs on occasion. Of course during the elims it occured over %50 of the time. We do not have an explaination for the problem at this time. The first match of the finals the hybrid issues presented. During tele mode the robot made it to the first overpass and then was dead in the water. A bad battery connection was blamed. During the third match we position the robot in lane 2 for Hybrid. The robot did not move in either Hybrid or tele. That issue was a loose main cable going to the terminal block. We could do nothing to get it back. Even after our alliance parters nudged us a few times. (which was a brilliant move BTW, Thank you). I hope this answers your questions. The GLR was a great time. Lots of great teams and great alliances. I thought for certain the 27, 469, 1646 alliance was going all the way. The event took a very interesting turn when they were defeated. In the end the best alliance won. Congratulations teams 67, 326 and 503. Good luck in Atlanta.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Once again congrats to 67, 503 and 326. It was great playing against you guys I only wish that despite the outcome of our last match we had been upright and able to play, but hey what can you do?:P

Onto some praise from this regional (sorry if I didn't mention your team but there were so many great teams that I'd be up all night and I'm sure we are all tired:D )

201- Outstanding driving I was blown away by your incredibly intelligent play, defensively, and offensively. Honestly some of, if not the best, driving I've seen yet.

65- It was great to meet you guys, and on the field there were some hard-fought matches. You guys and your alliance never let us stop, pushing us to our full potential. It was a great experience.

469- You guys were a great alliance partner and any team who manages to re-design/rebuild their entire offense in one day then come back the next day and be so competitive gets a big thumbs up from me. You also nearly made up for our lack of "participation" in that last match with some awesome driving.

67- Congratulations on your win today guys. Every year you guys manage to produce an incredibly solid bot and this year is obviously no different. You were great opponents and I have to say the entire wall of 67, 503, and 326 members behind our alliance's driver's station was pretty intimidating, but at the same time it jusst made everything that much more exciting

217- I don't know what I can say that hasn't been said a million times over already but I'm constantly impressed with your spirit, robot, and attitude, whether it's in the stands or on the field

1646- Once again you guys were an amazing alliance partner. Some of the best driving I've seen all year, never once did I feel you were in our way (but you definitely irritated our opponents:D ) and our whole alliance seemed to have a great flow to it. It was a blast talking to you guys on the field and I hope to see you guys again sometime down the road, wherever it may be. BOILER UP!

33- Last but certainly not least is the Killer Bees. First of all, congrats to Jim Zondag on his well-deserved Woodie Flowers Award (do the Zondag:P ). I was absolutely floored by your hybrid mode, which I would place as one of, of not the best there (there was some close competition from the Martians if I remember correctly edit: as well as 326 and I'm sure there were other I've forgotten sorry). You were a great competitor and partner, and I expect nothing but success in the future from this team.

This is just a sample of the great teams that attended the Great Lake Regional this weekend. Good work to everybody out there who attended this amazing event.


-Oh yeah how about a round of applause for Dave Verbugge and his amazing speech and MC'ing work.:cool:

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

It seams that many teams were having problems with hybrid mode, if you needed help with your program (reproduce, debugging) you could have asked us and we would have gladly helped. Us programmers were just sitting around with nothing to do:D .

I was hoping you would win the regional as soon as you swept us. It would be so cool to see you win three regionals. But I too was surprised that the 27 469 1646 didn't make it past the semis, they were solid.

Did you see the last match where 326 got 5 lines and 2 balls down in hybrid, that was the best 15 seconds of the regional. I still can't believe as a whole they got 60 points during that hybrid, that's more than some matches in total earned.

Thanks! I will be sure to pass this on to our drivers, they will be excited to see this.

I personally thought you were going to be the champs, with your amazing ball hurdler that was probably the best I have ever seen, and 469's amazing gripper/launcher.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Unfortunately, our team did much less than optimal this year, probably because we made the mistake of deciding not to hurdle very early on. Our arm ended up becoming nearly useless (even after several major modifications) and the hybrid mode was a bit rushed. At least there's next year, right?

Good job to everyone. :D

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

It couldn't get much better than the Great Lakes Regional. First of all, thank you so much to 217 and 66 for selecting us as their alliance partner. You guys were some of the very best alliance partners we've ever had, and it was an honor to be able to drive with you guys. The energy and enthusiasm you guys showed was incredible, and we absolutely could not have asked for better alliance partners. The wiring problems were a shame, but it was far from a disappointing performance this weekend. Good luck to both of you in Atlanta, we only wish we could join you.

Congratulations to teams 67, 503, and 326 on the win. It was a blast playing against you guys, and you were great opponents. You're defeat of 27's alliance was also very impressive, I really thought they had a victory in the bag, but you guys managed to pull off a win against a very tough alliance.

I was very impressed that 469 managed to pretty much rebuild their entire robot for this competition, and you guys were even more amazing then before.

I must echo my comments from the Detroit Regional about 27. You guys always impress me with you professionalism, and your robot is one beautiful piece of engineering art.

Thank you to our pit partners, 894, for lending us some tools in the morning to uncrate, and thank you to 1023, Bedford Express, for the awesome match boards that you gave the teams. That was a really nice gift for you guys to give.

There are many more teams that need thanking, but if I listed them all I could write a book. This was our last official competition of the season, and my last regional as a student. No Atlanta for us, so thank you for making this one of the best competitions of the year.

Good luck to everyone in Atlanta, and we'll see you in the off-season.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

WOW, where to start. First, thank you to all the teams, you guys all made this an outstanding regional and I really can't overstate that. Team 573 was honored to be picked by our good friends The CIA and compete with them and Team Lighting (we fought valiently and our team really loved working with you guys) I think I speak on behalf of everyone when I say that just getting into the elimination tournament at this regional is an huge honor because the competition is just so incredible. Congradulations to the finalist team of The ThunderChicken, The Flyers and Foley Freeze. You guys were an outstanding alliance impressed everybody. Now I'd like to individually congradulate the winning alliance teams. First of Team 67 (HOT!), you guys shocked everybody and utterly shook the very core of the eliminations and prooved to be the biggest x-factor of the competition. Your team built an incredible robot and prooved that it was truly a force to be reckoned with. Next Team 326 (Xtreme Eagles), we got to know you guys really well at the Pittsburgh Regional and from the moment I saw that launcher on friday I knew you guys were gunning for the top (along with the other side of the field!). Your robot performed great and I feel just as thrilled as you guys must be for your first GLR victory, I hope you continue to do what you do and keep going strong as a team. Last, and certainly not least, our good friends on Team 503 (Frog Force), We have a pretty outstanding history together and the victory we shared last year was one of the proudest of our teams history. I think you know that we really love what you do, after all you did get our favorite team award (did you like the design). Overall our team never ceases to be amazed at how great a job you do not only as a competitor but a first team, along with 67, I'd that your team best encompasses (based on what I see, hear and experience) the spirit of a true first team. Our team looks to continue to learn from you and stay good friends with you (also, congradulations on the EI award). Finally, congrats to team 68 for winning the chairmans award, we hope that you team continues to grow in the spirit of FIRST and act as model for other first teams to follow.

Now on a side note I'd like to talk about Team 2576 (Chillean Hearts). Over the last three days our team has gotten to know and become good friends with this amazing team, we have been inspired by them and we strived to inspire them througout the competition by helping them in any way possible and offering them our encouragement. We have become more than friends with you, we have become family and we will never let that die. There is something unbelievable special and inspiring about your team, it might be your first year and you might still be learning but you get what this competition is about, what its really about. You understand that this is about becoming not just competitors, but learners and inspirers and people who strive to go the distance to become something great. I look forward to seeing your team return next year, hopefully as a mentor, and I hope you continue to grow and mature in the competition. You guys are more than just a team to us, you are what makes this program so awe-inspiring and life changing. We've had an amazing three days with you and we look forward to seeing you again.

Once again amazing regional guys, good luck to all the teams heading Atlanta, we look forward to seeing you there.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

To our friends across the lane in the pits, 910 Foley Freeze: THE CAKE IS A LIE!!!! :D

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Do I spot someone who shops from shirt woot?

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I'd just like to send out a huge thanks to teams 27 and 469 for giving us the opportunity to play in the elimination matches at GLR. We were honored to play alongside two of the best teams in Michigan. I couldn't have dreamed of better partners to be with, and in the end, the cards just weren't in our favor. However, we still had a great time at our first GLR trip and see why it's one of the best regionals hands down. Good luck to you all, we'll see you in Atlanta.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

This year was the first time we have been back to GLR since 2003 where we lost in the finals to, guess who ... 67. This is really getting old:) Seriously though, GLR is my favorite regional as I have been the game announcer since 2004. I want to say thank-you to Dave Noff for finding a great replacement for me this weekend on short notice. The announcer did an excellent job.

Congratulations to the winning alliance, especially 326 who received their first regional win ever! I hope you are going to the Championships. The 60 points in hybrid in Finals 3 was awe inspiring.

On behalf of team 217, I apologize to our alliance partners during the finals for our hardware issues ... they kind of just snuck up on us as we have not seen the intermittent connection issue all season long. A disappointing loss, but some of the best fun our drive team has had.

Team 66 - Thanks for picking us and thanks for being a great strategic partner. Your positional defense was excellent and we worked very well together.

Team 910 - I can't believe you guys were left available to us in the second round. You have a great team and your strategic play was also very amazing. The ball hand-off was one of the most memorable plays we had this year. It wa a fun set of elimination matches.

Team 201 - You opened our eyes to how clean, strong defense can be a major factor in this game and we will be watching the videos of our matches against you many times over in preparation for the Championship.

Team 68 - Congratulations on Chariman's Award. You definitely desserve it.

Team 67 and 503 - This seriously has to stop. We have to stop being on the opposite side of the glass ... 2005 on Einstien (67 & 503), 2006 on Einstein (503), and now 2008 GLR Finals (67 & 503) ... enough is enough.


To the GLR planning committe and all the volunteers: Thank-you for putting on such a wonderful event. Hopefully the schedule works out next year so team 217 can attend.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I didn't get a chance to see the alliance selection, It would appear that a lot of strategy was displayed at Great Lakes. Could some one explain what slections were made, and did most of the top 8 decline an invitation. If so, bloody awesome!!!! That was probably one of the better regionals of the year. Thanks in advance.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I believe 27, 33 and 67 (not necessarily in that order) declined invitations by 66. All were graciously done.

It certainly served to make the elims interesting and hard to predict. I heard predictions from different people of at least 5 of the alliances advancing to the finals.

Re: Coming to GLR
 

i am so glad we partnered up with you guys for elimination. Not only did we create a great alliance but we got foam fingers. Thanks:D

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

From Jeff Waegelin and my predictions (plus lame excuses why they didn't pan out):
1. 66 217 910 beats 8. 291 862 573
2. 47 494 1023 barely beats 7. 67 326 503*penalties
3. 27 469 1646 beats 6. 65 68 245
5. 33 107 201 beats 4. 1718 70 451

5. 33 107 201 barely beats 1. 66 217 910*tech difficulties
3. 27 469 1646 barely beats winner of 2 vs. 7*penalties

Winner of 1 vs. 5 beats Winner of 2 vs 3*tech difficulties

I still insist that if Alliance 7 hadn't screwed everything up, then the predictions would've held

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Great Lakes was a blast! Thanks to 291 for selecting us to play in the Eliminations, and 573 its always a blast playing with you guys. We gave it a good shot, and I've never been so excited about a tie.:D ORANGE ALLIANCE!!

I loved the 910 to 217 hand off, It was a great strategy!

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Cool Breeze,
At Ypsilanti Great Lakes Regional - three teams declined the opportunity to be the #1 seeds partner. Each CHOSE to control their own destiny (as they have the right to do so by finishing in the top 8 spots). Each did decline as gracefully as possible under the conditions.

The drama played out like a well scripted play.

Knowing that once a team declines, they cannot be selected by any other team after that - AND, guessing(?) ahead of time that each might decline them, they did the smart thing in forcing the issue and making the 3 teams decline. If any one of them had said yes, they would have had a fantastic partner - so , they had nothing to lose and a whole lot to gain.

Strategically this eliminated any opportunity from the top 8 teams to pair up and become a "super" alliance.

I am not a supporter of the serpentine draft, but even more so - I am not a supporter of the top 8 picking from among themselves. It's just a quirky opinion I have about eliminating uncomfortable and potentially embarassing situations, like forcing a public decline.

I will say that I was disappointed in the people in the crowd that choose to boo the 3 teams that did decline the #1 seeded team.

I do not believe any of the choices were a surprise to them and it is somewhat disappointing that the folks whom were booing, didn't really understand what was going on "behind the scenes".

Next time perhaps, someone could instruct the crowd to "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain".

Great strategy 66 and 217 - brilliant move.


Added note -
I think you might see something like this play out in Atlanta also, so it should be interesting to see what transpires.

Mike Aubry

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

We had some instability too. Lost a few matches to wires coming loose.
In our final match in Cleveland 1126 lost its battery in the first part of the
match. Try tethering up and throwing in a very very short printf ( otherwise
the overhead may mess up your algorithm) and chase your robot around with
a programming cable. You never know what a variable is doing until its under load.
I am sure we will see you guys across the glass or on our side in Nationals.
No one likes losing on a broken bot. Better to die in battle. You'll figure it
out and good luck at Nationals.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

On behalf of Team 1718, let me start by saying congrats to 68 for the Regional Chairman's Award; Jim Zondag for the Woodie Flowers Award; and 67, 326, and 503 on the Regional Championship (5 lines, 2 balls, and 60 pts in a 15 sec hybrid period - color me impressed!).

A big thank you to team 70 and 451. You guys were great alliance partners - if we had it to do over again, we wouldn't change our picks. Unfortunately, in the end we just didn't have quite enough. All three very close matches that could have gone either way.

Good luck to all going to the Championships - we'll be watching, but unfortunately we won't be there. Hopefully we'll be seeing some of you in off-season events.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

[quote=GaryVoshol;726857]I believe 27, 33 and 67 (not necessarily in that order) declined invitations by 66. All were graciously done.

As you know 33,27,67 did decline us (as predicted) if any of these teams were to join together they would have been a POWER HOUSE! so with the help of so friends we did a little spying work and put the plan into action. I think most of you can figure the plan out from the way we pick those teams.:cool: :cool: :D

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Paul,
Thanks. We were tweaking out launcher and control system, and beefing up our arms right up to the playoffs. We knew we'd be ready to go when/if we were chosen. When we played together in the playoffs and were able to hurdle 3 and 4 times per match plus get the 3 or 4 lines in hybrid, I think that was a real significant boost from a third alliance partner, and as you called it a "rope-a-dope"! Plus, when they played D on you, it left us free to shoot and hurdle balls to you which was such a blast. My wife said that "hand-to-hand" ball transfer was really neat to watch. We opened up our arms and it looked like, "Here! We've got a present for you!" and then you reached in and took it and we sped off to get another. What a riot!

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

You guys and 503 were definatley the sleepers of the competition.
both of you guys were definatley on our list :P

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I am no fan of the top 8 picking amongst themselves as well, I feel if they weren't allowed to pick those teams THAT would be a great equalizer as well. But I guess we have to play the cards we are dealt and if we find ourselves matched against a super alliance, then we try and find a winning strategy.

Congratulations to the winning alliance and to all the teams involved. There are many teams around the country who are happy to just have a robot score one hurdle in a match. I know this may not be the goal and is not the goal of many very good teams, but take joy in victories which may not be so obvious to you right now.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

First off, WOW what an incredible regional. Other than 2007 IRI, I think this was the most powerful competition I have been too:

217 - Ingenious design for the grabber, something I would have never thought of. The drive team is incredible; coordinating grabbing the ball, bringing it back under one overpass, then flinging it at exactly the right time to score was just awe inspiring. Plus, looking across the field seeing Paul over there thinking up strategies is very scary. Congrats on the silver, you guys already have 2 gold, we get to have this one :)

27 - I watched you guys at Detroit and since then I was really looking forward to competing with you at GLR. Your robot is a scoring machine, and the drive team operated it perfectly. We were very scared when you guys picked up 469.

33 - You guys were in the top three of our list the entire weekend. Objectively, I had you guy ranked over my own team going into alliance selections.

469, 494, 47, 70, 1718, and 107...all incredible teams and robots. I really enjoyed watching all of you, especially watching the 469 learning curve with their new shooter.

66 - Hopefully, there are no hard feelings, from us declining your invitation to join your alliance. We felt very lucky to be inside the top 8, and given the serpentine draft and the strength of the field, we wanted to be able to control our own destiny. Prior to alliance selections, there was an incredible amount of discussion going on between the top teams...217 talking with 66....66, 47, and 107 discussing scenarios with us...just an awesome amount of brainpower trying to predict what was about to happen.

68 – Congratulations on your Chairman’s award. Hopefully, you can join us in the Hall of Fame, you guys deserve it.

Congratulations to 326 for there first regional win. I moved you guys up my list when I saw that booming launcher and that incredible hybrid mode. You guys really proved to be heroes in our matches, picking up the ball and shooting it over when we were unable to do it. Plus 5 lines and 2 balls, WOW, I didn’t even know you were capable of that… Thank you for being a great partner.

503 – We win together again :) , What can I say? Pitting next to you, I closely watched the transformation of your robot from and arm into a shooter. Watching your drivers adjust to the change throughout, I knew you guys would be competition ready by Saturday afternoon. Thank you!!

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

As you know 33,27,67 did decline us (as predicted) if any of these teams were to join together they would have been a POWER HOUSE! so with the help of so friends we did a little spying work and put the plan into action. I think most of you can figure the plan out from the way we pick those teams.:cool: :cool: :D[/quote]

*sigh* There went any real chance to keep things ~a mystery, yet again, Mike did explain it pretty thoroughly, and I must confess, after knowing the plan and everything, I loved the crowd reaction to the whole thing. Though I don't recall booing, I do easily recall the very pronounced "OOOOOHHHHHHH!!!!!" along with the gasps and sounds of utter shock.

That said, thank you Mike for explaining it, and though yes, us attempting to pick amongst the top 8 initially would be against your position on the matter, a little 'research' may make that an amazingly powerful tool to prevent others from attempting the exact same thing. Due to mid build-season issues, 66 did not have a great bot this year, but they still play hard and keep playing what strategically is best.

And again, a HUGE thanks to 217 for engineering the feat. We would not have gotten to finals if it were not for the plan. Either that, or finals would have been predicted at selections, which would have made for a rather dull and especially uninteresting elimination (like a row of dominoes falling, 24 of them to be exact, with three that don't fall). Instead, all the matches were extremely exciting and rather enjoyable.

Congratulations to everybody, who competed pretty darn well.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

All you can say is WHAT A BLAST !!!!!!!! The Great Lakes Regional is so competitive it makes you step it up a notch and gets your team ready for championships .The finals could easily be the Currie or Newton division playoffs,as Dave said THE PERFECT STORM! THANK YOU to team 66 The Flyers and 217 The Thunderchickens for picking us and seeing we were a diamond in the rough. We have had a great alliance with team 66 through the years and always enjoy teaming up with them. Not many teams can build a robot in two weeks .and in there first regional (the toughest one)finish first in qualfying.then go all the way to the finals,awsome team!!!! Speaking of awsome teams The Thunderchickens are the team to beat. It was such a pleasure working with this team for a change instead of on the other side of the field .Watching Paul masterminding our stragity was something to watch and be a part of . The drive team in a league of there owne,and the (HAND OFF)was really cool to watch !!!!!!!!!!.This team will have something to say on Einstien(knock on wood)barring any electrical problems like the finals!!! THANK YOU again to great alliance partners we almost had it ,but enough for the would of, could of,should ofs, GOOD LUCK IN ATLANTA!!!!!!!! Congratulations to the champs 67,326,503 great job!!!!! To the Hot team ,why is it always HOT VS. FREEZE? Your a tough team and even a tougher alliance. You know its going to be a tough match when after hybrid mode your behind 60 to 24!!!!!!!!Great job guys!! Good luck to all teams from GLR in Atlanta .do our area proud. Sadly we will not be joining you as we had to win to go. Maybe we will see you at IRI or one of the off season events.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Does anyone have any videos of the 33 107 201 alliance from the quater and semi finals? I wanted to show some of my non-robotics friends some of our matches.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Thanks to Michigan 17th District Senator Randy Richardville who has attended GLR the past 2 years to support teams in his district!

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Thank you to the HOT team (67) for selecting us on the winning alliance and for everything else that you have done with and for us throughout the years. Without your start, we would not even have a team. This has been one of the greatest partnerships within FIRST.

I want to commend the Soaring Eagles (326) on their brilliant play and congratulate them on their first medals. You truly are a class act and we look forward to seeing you in Atlanta.

I also want to say that the Thunder Chickens (217) created an awesome machine this year. I am sorry about the breakdown at the end and wish that you would have been able to compete in that final round. It would have made our victory (or loss) that much more satisfying. I am, however, tired of competing against you, year after year (2005 Einstein/2006 Einstein/2008 GLR Finals), and would like to one day be on an alliance with you. You are one of my favorite teams.

Finally, I want to thank the MechWarriors (573) for the awesome favorite team award. Our victory together last year at GLR has helped to forge a great relationship between our teams. One that I hope will last for years to come. Keep up the good work. We love you guys.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Trust me, sitting on the feild with my compainion from 217 we were extremly glad that 910 wasnt picked. so like you said your team was a diamond in the ruff and i would also like to give a great big thanks to team 217. you guys were great to team up with and i dont think we would have got as far as we did without you or team 910. thanks and we hope that you are in our division in Atl.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Sir you know as well as i do that most the people in the stands started to catch on when the second team name was said. or atleast everyone knew what happend by the begining of finals.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Thank You. More than just competitively, you guys encompass what we are aiming to be as a team. A group that proudly represents what FIRST is all about on all fronts and embodies the spirit of what this program is truly about. So we hope you appreciated the award (tell us if we should stick with that design) and we hope that you guys continue to do what you do and represent what FIRST is all about.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Mr. Aubry, I must protest.
These behind-the-scenes arrangements, in ANY national sport or even in the Olympics, would be considered Game-fixing, and all of you would have gone the way of the Black Sox and Pete Rose. It also denied almost any chance teams outside the top 16 had to make it into the final rounds.
So, with respect, shame on you all. This should be reported to FIRST.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Respectfully shaming? How does that work?

This is a valid strategy and has been a part of FIRST for quite some time now. It's a great move too. If anything, it prevents 'super alliances' from forming and makes the elimination rounds more competitive. Just because it was discussed before hand between the teams doesn't matter because it's a valid strategy.

This is FIRST. This isn't baseball or the Olympics. Reporting this to FIRST would be a stupid move as it's not even a bad thing, it's not even uncommon actually. This occurs every year and is really a non-issue.

Really, I think this happening made GLR even better. The eliminations were the most exciting I've seen all year.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Dear MishraArtificer,
First of all I resent being made out to be the bad guy in this. I was simply telling CoolBreeze what occurred.
Secondly, Ryan is correct in what he stated in his post after yours.

And, the reality is that every team has the exact same chance of being in the final rounds.
The first step is to play well enough and have some luck on your side to get in the top 8 spots.
After that it boils down to whom those teams believe will make the best alliance partners - period.

I don't know if this will help you understand that nothing that transpired is 1) against any rules written or unwritten in FIRST and 2) nothing that transpired was even remotely ungracious or unfair to any other team that participated.

I've been doing FIRST for 12 years now, I've witnessed alot of alliance selections over those years - and I've never witnessed a single time that could be considered the way you described it.

I am also going to ask that others DO NOT pile on and flame MishraArtificer.
That is not necessary and we don't need this thread hijacked - the Great Lakes Regional event was awesome and hopefully we'll continue to post positive comments about it.

Mike Aubry

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Unfortunatly you have this in reverse. by doing this we are eleminating a so called super alliance and giving more teams outside the top 16 a chance to get into the finals. this is not a bad move on anyones behalf. think of it this way. we are not the best robot out there so this can be put into 2 different perspectives. we as the #1 seeded team we wanted a good seeded team to join us and by declining
1. we lost a good team
2. we have also ensured that no one else can pick that team
3. we force there hand to pick outside the top 8 as there own captain.

so we as the #1 seeded team have just fallen into a win-win situation.

Put on the other hand we were a divete team who conspired to make sure that the finals were rigged. which most of the teams have notified that this is not what happend. so we are not the "Black sox" at all. we are just a team that had a good stratigy that FAILED in the end if you didnt know because we lost.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Are you insinuating skulduggery? Certainly there was intelligence gathering, but not any payoffs for sweetheart deals.

66 took a calculated risk. If their first pick had said yes, the whole strategy would have folded. (Although as pointed out, they would have had an excellent first choice partner; they just wouldn't have had the benefit of spreading out the rest of the seeds.) A part of 66's strategy would also have to be to know who NOT to pick, and I'm sure they considered that carefully. You will notice they had 3 declines - not all 7 - before they went outside the top 8 for a choice.

Each team that declined also took a risk - the first one most of all. If they said no, and then 66 picked a team that said yes, the other teams would still be free to pick amongst themselves.

66 may have even inquired whether any of these teams would consider an alliance pairing. There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, it gives those other teams a bit of intelligence of their own. They now have a concrete decision to make, evaluating the risks, making backup plans.

In short, a brilliant bit of strategy on everyone's part.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Yet you forget, this is the Superbowl of Smarts. While these sports you refer to use strategy, FIRST encourages the smartest minds out there to use their minds to the max. This means using strategy to the most that the rules allow. I am sure that 66 would have been thrilled to have been teamed with any of their selected teams. However the other teams fought hard for where they seeded, they deserved the right to their spot. Top 8 deserve where they are, and they have won their right to pick whom they please and to decline if they so desire.

Gracious professionalism has been, since I entered 6 years ago at least, acting in a way that would make your grandmother proud. I know that my grandmother would not be proud unless I competed to the best of my ability. She would also be proud if I helped out others. To my interpretation, GP is competing like crazy while helping like crazy. In the same regard, there is nothing anti-GP about being competitive (though if it reaches an overly competitive level, it reaches anti-GP). Selecting teams who may turn you down is not anti-GP. Turning down another team in preference of your own best strategy is also not anti-GP. I have often said that it is not what you do, it's how you do it. There are some things that no matter how you do them are wrong. This action, if tactically done, is not bad.

Now onto the regional comments.

I was incredibly impressed with what I saw at GLR. I was in pit admin for Friday and Saturday and got to bounce out to the field from time to time. The level of competition was out of this world. The preparedness of the teams was great. But what I was most impressed with was something that I have been frustrated with for a couple of years. This weekend, I can only recall 1 instance of someone being absolutely rude. Most of the people that I saw were not only polite, but overly so. In past years, I have heard/seen a bit of disrespect and overall inappropriate behavior at this competition. People being overly competitive, people just not... getting the whole GP thing. This year, I did not see that.

This was most prevalent with the overwhelming support for the rookies, particularly the Chilean team. People, particularly veterans, even some who haven't been traditionally well known for being the go to teams for help, were really going out of their way to be a huge help. I was more than thrilled.

Thank you teams at GLR, this weekend really was a huge reassurance that FIRST is turning back to the direction I like to see it in. Thank you to all of the teams who came and talked to us in pit admin and shared your stories. I loved hearing from members from teams 1941 & 2576.

Para el equipo de Chile, muchas gracias para la oportunidad a practicar hablando espanol. !Los miembros del equipo 2576 iba asi social con toda la gente al concurso, iban como los estudiantes estadounidenses! !!!Buena suerte a todo en el futuro, fue un placer para encontrar todos de ustedes!!!

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I knew this was going to happen the minute they got 1st seed.
This was a strategic move.
The only flaw in it that i seen was when they picked HOT.
Because, HOT in my mind had a 50% chance of saying yes.
66 messed up many peoples 1st picks when they did it
But i am very aware that defensive picking is allowed.
So i salute them for doing this.
(However, if HOT had said yes, then 47,217 woulda been insane :P )

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

66 came to us prior to alliance selection and asked us if we would accept their invitation. We informed them that would have to decline their offer, because we felt it was a better option to pick our own alliance.

So, they really weren't taking any risk...other than if we did something other than what we told them.

In my opinion, there is no way we would have been as dominate for the #1 alliance as 217 was, they were incredible.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Beth, Team 573 was working with the Chileans the entire weekend both in and outside the competition and we learned some much about the true meaning of this program through them. We could have used another translator though.;)

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I personally think that is what put the icing on the cake for this year's GLR. Typically we could call this regional international since it has previously attracted teams from Canada.

But Chile??? I couldn't be happier, that was so amazing, and their spirit was so natural, I just enjoyed it. Now GLR is truly international. wOOt!!!

To the Chile Team: Thanks for coming to the Great Lakes Regional. You guys were great!!!

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Hey fun regional everybody...That hybrid period in finals match 3 was sick...

I also have 2 questions I hope someone will be able to answer

1) Is there a website or anyone that has vids of the GLR matches?

2) I was also wondering if some teams could share their scouting method (not how they scout, but what they look for). The reason I'm asking is because my team (894) finished with a 6-2 record and on the ranks ended up at 12. Unfortunately though, we didn't get selected into the quarterfinals. I'm not complaining (I'll admit I was frustrated), but I just want to know why so we can improve it and make our robot better. (There were some teams that got selected and I was very surprised because I thought that there were a few other robots that had better qualities.) But like I said, just want to know what some of the teams looked for....Thanks and hope to see you all at nationals.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

In the past we have been very open with teams about whether we would accept an alliance with them or not. Our intent was to save them from having to publicly select us, only to have us decline. We're fine if they want to pick us openly anyway, as it has been pointed out, it's a good move strategically (we're also fine with them not publicly picking us too :D). What I hadn't considered is that a team would ask us this question with no intention of actually pairing up with us, but merely looking to block us from being picked by another team. This practice I feel would be deceitfull and clearly not in the spirit of FIRST. I want to be clear here, the practice that would be deceitful would be telling us we are your top pick just to see if you can block us from being picked by another team.

Back to what actually happened. A mentor from team 66 approached us about being their top pick. They had some concerns about 217's electrical problems (apparently rightfully so). If this was all a ruse to find out whether we would decline a pick or not (with no intention of picking us) I would be extremely disapointed, regardless of the eventual outcome.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Well after seven years we got lucky. It finally started to sink in yesterday.

Just want to say thanks to the HOT team. You guys and gals are an incredible team and have inspired us for years. Every year your robot is an absolute master piece. I would be worried about scratching it. Your team never gives up and really represents what First is about. Glad we got to go to the finals with you again.

503 hope we get to play with u more often then against. You guys just keep turning out great robots year after year. What really impresses me is how you guy work so well with other teams and results show.

There was an incredible amount of team work and good clean fun that made it all come together.

217, what an incredible robot. To bad luck wasn't there for your team, you guys are still assume. Coming into the finals I was hoping you'd get 3 in a row. I don't know if we could have pulled it out against you guy’s full force. We have drawn up and build some crazy designs over the years and most of them worked marginally, but I think your design takes the all time cake. What a great robot. I am sure it will be copied in some future year’s game and am sure it won't work for the copy cats. Paul I think you and your team could turn a box Scooby snacks into a functioning robot.

Everyone take a break and see you at Nationals. Peace.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

There are around 325 pictures in our Picasa album from the trip, if you want to check them out follow the link: http://picasaweb.google.com/rdognaux/2008GLR

The pictures obviously have a Purdue FIRST Programs focus but there are other robots from the event in the album as well.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

This is also true for Team RUSH. 66 did come over and ask us before, but we said we would not except. I agree that they weren't taking any risk but it was a pre-planned plan (if that makes any sense).

To 66: You are right though when you say a super-alliance may have been formed but with 217 and 910 along with yourselves you guys were just as good of an alliance as any of us. I think the action taken was not necessary, but it's part of the rules and you can play them to your advantage. So I respect your decision and it was a smart play on your guys part.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Hey im with team 66. man this is my first year in FRC but I was in FLL for 3 years. We missed 3 weeks of the build season because of layoffs. We were expecting to just go out there and compete. but we made it to finals :confused: . wowowow. Hey great job Chief Delphi u guys were #1 for the longest time. I hope to see you all in atlanta. If you want to talk to me im the mascot for 66 :). Or you may see me in the pits. My name is dustin if any1 wishes to talk.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I was talking to Dave Verbrugge today and he shared some data with me that I want to share with you.

First, I would like to once again thank Dave for a great job as MC. It is always a pleasure to watch him work.

As an engineer, Dave likes to look at data from many different ways to see if there might be another result predicted. So Dave took the number of points that each team earned during the elimination matches and sorted them highest to lowest. Here is what he found:

Number of Points Alliance Match
126 7 Final 1-3
124 7 Qtr 3-2
114 1 Qtr 1-1
114 3 Qtr 4-1
110 3 Qtr 4-2
108 7 Final 1-1
104 1 Final 1-2
96 7 Semi 2-2
94 2 Qtr 3-1
94 7 Semi 2-1

That is just the top ten scores. As you can see, this shows that the best scores were saved to the end...very few semi-final scores here. It only got better. The way these team were performing, I would have liked to see some of them go at each other one on one.

Another thing that he pointed out to me...for the 7th alliance to be successful, they had to overcome the 2nd alliance, then the 3rd alliance, then the 1st alliance.

I would also like to thank the Chilean Hearts for attending GLR. I have been communicating with them for about three months. What a great team. If you have not yet gone to their website, I invite you to do so. You will see a photo of Woodie with his hair down...something not often seen. You will also see why they chose GLR for thier very first competition. They told me that they came here because they heard it was the very best. Well, they came to a great one. And thanks to all the teams and individuals that took the time to make them feel special. They are friends in my heart.

As a member of the Great Lakes Regional Planning Committee, it was great to stand on the floor during the Saturday award ceremony and see the enthusiam of the croud for each and every group there. Thanks for making this a great event.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Ok you say it was not nessesary. so tell me this if we did not do this would you have picked team 33 or team 67 or team 217 if we hadn't? it was a simple plan that has been used in the past and it is like you said "part of the rules". it was all plan and it was nothing personal to any of the teams. like i said it was just a plan that work up untill finals.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with what you said. It was just a good, affective plan

It just that you were going to team up with thunder chickens... no doubt about it. But even if there was a so called "super-alliance", you and thunder chickens (and whoever your partner may have been), would still have been a competitive alliance. If I was in your position I would have probably done the same thing...I am just saying that with out your "plan", you would have still been an effect and formidable alliance. You guys were ranked #1 for a reason.

I do not want to disagree or argue...i am just saying that your alliance still would have had a chance to win.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Well i am glad that you understand what we were going for. And just to get this out there, most people already no this, just because we were ranked #1 does not mean by any standerds that we were the best. I am not going to try and fool my-self or anyone else. i know for a fact that we got lucky and got into the top 8. All we have going for us at this time is a good Defense and a ok lap runner. but if we would have just gone and picked 217 we might have had a chance but we did not want to take that risk.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I did not want to go down this road in this thread, but since it already has travelled there I feel it is imperative that I respond to any and all hints that what transpired was against FIRST rules, against the spirit of the rules, or just plain underhanded.

I will first say this: the strategy that was implemented was 100% initiated by me. No one else on 217 or 66 were in on it. I brought it up to 66 right after we found out we might be selected by them. If you do not agree with the strategy that is laid out in this post, that is fine but blame no one but me. Also, this post is brutally honest, so I hope no one gets hard feelings, but it may happen.

One important note: prior to any discussion between team 66 and team 217, team 66 approached the Hot team as 66 wanted to pick Hot first. This is a fact and team 66 was sincere when they approached team 67.

I asked team 66 if they were going to pick us (all indications were that this was a fact) and they stated that they approached team 67 first and 67 told 66 they would probably say no. As a result, team 217 was their first choice. Team 217 really wanted to be selected by the #2 team, 47, but knew that telling 66 we would say no to them was just a lie since we were out of the top 8.

I considered this a dilemma as I did not think the alliance would go very far in the eliminations as I predicted we needed two good hurdlers to win. 66 was not a hurdler. I decided we needed to use the blocking strategy. This strategy is perfectly legitimate and, given the ridiculous serpentine draft (don't get me started), basically the only way a team seeded at number 1 can defend against super alliances. I knew that 27 and 33 would say no to 66, not because I asked them, but because that is what team 217 would have done in their position. Granted, team 66 was not comfortable with this as they thought 27 or 33 would say yes. I knew this was simply not the case.

Now for team 67. I have to admit that I thought the chances of 67 saying yes were 50/50, but in either case both 217 and 66 were to benefit from the blocking strategy. I will say this, I strongly urged 66 to ask 67 anyway because I basically did not trust that 67 would say no to a 47 or 27 or 33 if 66 just trusted 67. **See the historical side note at the bottom of this post** for the reason.

I firmly believe that if it was not for this blocking strategy, our alliance would not have made it to the finals. If any member of any of the teams are angry or displeased about the turn of events, please PM me and we can discuss it. However, I have no regrets for what transpired and I believe it is a perfectly legitimate strategy well within the rules and guidelines given to us.

-Paul

**Historical Side Note**
At the 2003 MidWest Regional, we were the number 2 seed and wanted to pair with Baxter (team 16). We asked them ahead of time if they would accept and their response was, "no, because we want to select our own alliance." Given that, we decided to just select our number 2 pick at the time (111, if you can believe they were our second choice). During alliance selections, they accpeted an offer from the number 3 alliance and eventually defeated our alliance in the semi-finals. This little FIRST lesson will always be with team 217 and we will continue to use the blocking strategy as long as it is within the FIRST rules to do so.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I believe what Chaos Marine is saying doesn't really tell the whole story. After talking with them I believe they approached teams in the pit starting with the top team from their scouting data. Each of those teams were seeded and each told them privately that they would rather lead their own alliance. They made it down their list to 217 who would gladly accept their alliance. So now they have a list of teams who have said they will decline their alliance proposal. I believe it was a this time they chose to stick with their original list and be declined on the field, which because of the rules, it was clearly in their best interest.

I believe the confusion has arisen due to the fact that most other teams had 217 at the top of their list. No conspiracy theory, just a bit of a misunderstanding IMHO.

66 feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: After reading Paul's post, I guess my info was a little off, turns out it's a combination of the two. It's a tactic that's certainly within the rules, but I'm willing to bet this aspect of the rule is an unintentional side effect.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

1) Is there a website or anyone that has vids of the GLR matches?

2) I was also wondering if some teams could share their scouting method (not how they scout, but what they look for). The reason I'm asking is because my team (894) finished with a 6-2 record and on the ranks ended up at 12. Unfortunately though, we didn't get selected into the quarterfinals. I'm not complaining (I'll admit I was frustrated), but I just want to know why so we can improve it and make our robot better. (There were some teams that got selected and I was very surprised because I thought that there were a few other robots that had better qualities.) But like I said, just want to know what some of the teams looked for....Thanks and hope to see you all at nationals.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Well sometimes you look for the robots that have been progressive been getting better as the weekend has gone on.. like us (326) and 503 were doing (Nicely selected by the number 7 seeded HOT (67) team). Then you might look to a team that has expirence in the elimations rounds and can come up with good defense (like we did) or can just paly smart and advoid tons of peneltys.

Advice also would to have a group of people in the stands lookng a robots and seeing if they are getting better or if its just luck that they are that high in the standings..

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

You're correct on that. Just to clear up my points a bit, with a reference to my past post on the issue:

I think there was a bit of overexaggeration on the part of my friend there... there was no spying at all. It is as it is stated above by Paul and everybody else before this. We asked, both within the pits and on the field 67 and etc. whether or not they would join so we could keep a super alliance from forming. Contrary to how Mike explained it, there was no guesswork after asking around a bit.

My apologies for any confusion or misunderstanding due to my bad recollection of the entire event. :confused:
I'm just glad we have kept this decently under control... I knew someone would pop the question as to the level of GP in this and I am glad we have been able to handle it well. Optimally this would not have been brought up, but it never goes that way due to Moore's Law and other principles (Whatever can go wrong, will.... Reactions lean towards a greater state of entropy... etc etc)/

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Every year this sort of "blocking" strategy occurs and every year people get upset about it. No matter what anyone thinks, the #1 seed has the right to select whomever they want, even if they have no interest in pairing up with them. As the #1 seed, they've earned the right to try and block other alliances from forming. 1114 fell victim to this strategy on the Curie field last year. Many people came up to us talking about how 1732 "screwed" us and 330 over. My response to them was very simple, "we screwed ourselves by not seeding #1".

The serpentine draft already penalizes the #1 seed enough, there's no need to jump on them for executing a savvy strategy.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Totally agree, I see it as strategy.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Joe,
In response to your comment "Contrary to how Mike explained it, there was no guesswork after asking around a bit."
I think I explained it very accurately and I even left wiggle room with a (?) after the word "guessing".
I appreciate that you are confirming that you had already asked and recieved a response from each team involved (27, 33, and 67) so the "guesswork" was eliminated.
I also had discussions with all 3 teams (in addition to 217) in order to determine if they would accept an offer from us in the #2 spot. Not knowing which way your team would go, we needed multiple alternative plans ready. It was very important for us to also have confidence in our 3rd thru 7th choices - not knowing how many teams you would chance forcing a decline from.
2 of the 3 said that they would accept if offered, 1 respectfully declined.
My motivation in asking them the question was solely to eliminate an embarrassing situation - as I stated earlier, I don't like putting teams in that situation under any circumstances.
Unfortunately for us, by these teams saying no to your team, they were also saying no to us.
I totally understand the rationale used and don't find it objectionable at all.
The number of really good teams were abundent at Great Lakes, and we chose 494 without any regrets at all.
We had a great time playing with them - even though things didn't quite work out so well for us.
Against the eventual champions, we won the first match pretty handily, but had some bad luck in the 2nd and 3rd matches. That also shows how deep of a field of robots attended the regional - all 8 of the alliances were very, very, competitive - without any being totally dominating.

Mike

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I'm glad this issue over the alliance selections has been clarified. I don't believe there was any foul play last Saturday; it was an excellent strategy. I'm grateful that there were no "super-alliances" this year. It was probably the best and most competitive regional I've seen as a student in FIRST.

Now, I'd like to thank and congratulate a few teams.

33- First of all, congrats to Jim for winning the regional Woodie Flowers Award. I was surprised that you hadn't won it earlier, and I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest to see you win the national Woodie Flowers award. Anyway, thank you very much for picking us. We had fun being your alliance partner, and if it weren't for some technical problems, I really think we could have challenged the #1 alliance for a spot in the finals. This is the second time in three years that we have had the privilege of being your alliance partner. You guys are an awesome team and I wish the best of luck to you in Atlanta!

107- Thank you for being an awesome alliance partner. You and 33 were great in the quarterfinals, hurdling like crazy while we played defense. It was unfortunate to lose the way we did, but it was a great time all the same. I hope to see you soon in Atlanta.

67, 503, 326- Congrats to the winners of one of the toughest regionals in all of FIRST. Your hybrid mode impressed me and your teamwork was flawless. For 67 and 503, this is another victory in a long list of accomplishments. For 326, I applaud your AWESOME robot. Your hurdler impressed me all weekend! Good luck to all three of you at the Championship!

27- Your robot is perhaps the most innovative machine I've seen all year. Your hurdler was incredible and I was as surprised as anyone when you lost in the semifinals. You will be a force to be reckoned with Atlanta; I just hope we don't have to come up against you like we did two years ago.

217- One of my favorite teams to watch all weekend. Your robot is incredibly simple, and yet so effective. Your drive team is incredible too. It was unfortunate that you were unable to win your third straight regional, but don't lose too much sleep over it; you'll come out strong in Atlanta. Also, I want to thank you for your respect and humility toward our drive team. I wish you nothing but the best in Atlanta!:D

Phew! Two weeks off, then the real competition begins. Hope to see you all there!:cool:

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I wouldn't be suprised if every alliance that made it to einstein had at least one GLR team, thats how impressed I was with the robots at this competition. With a few tweaks to the autonomous (I'll give you a hint, we plan on rocking a ghettoblaster.) our team would love to be one of them but we shall see.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

You couldn't have put my thoughts into one statement better Jacob. I just couldn't muster up the time to put them all down.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I would also like to congratulate team 245 on the best website award. As a website designer I understand how complicated it is to write something like that and wish that I could. I am also amazed that it was all done by an 8th grader (not that age matters though), he must have tons of experience to be able to write something like that. You guys were also an amazing team who should made it higher than the QF's and we only wished here at Rochester that we could have versed you in the finals (any of them). Good luck next year (or at any events sooner)! :D

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I am sorry if i mislead anyone in my previous post but all this was, was a blocking strategy that was told to us by Paul(Thank you very much Paul you had a awesome plan and i thank you for coming to us) he knew we would pick them and he told us what to do. I tried to Leave Paul out of this so this would not happen but unfortunatly it still did. It was a great strategic plan that is not against the rules by any means. He helped us get all the way to the finals with 910 and we appreciate him and his team. So let there be no more confusion he told us, we accepted, and then Finals went on with great competition. that is what happend now lets leave it at that. We had a great time with our alliance teams and i hear you all did the same with your teams. Congrats to the winning teams because you won in the end and i salute you for it. see you all in Atl. and good luck.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Thanks, Jane! The Great Lakes Regional was an incredible experience for Team 1732 - students, mentors, and parents alike. As we expected, just being in the same place with all of those teams with so much experience and history was truly inspiring for all of us. It may sound strange, but you could just feel the respect everywhere. We feel lucky just to have been a part of the Perfect Storm.

Since getting back to Wisconsin, I haven't yet connected with our team parents who were on their fact-finding mission about team organization, policies, sustainability, etc, but I would like to thank everyone who took the time to share their passion for FIRST and their teams with Yen and Karan. So to Beth Sweet and Mark Johnson (who came looking for us!), and to team 573, 469, 280, 1701 (a fellow Jesuit team!) and everyone else who I am missing -thank you for sharing your wisdom, your successes, and your challenges. I do know that Karan and Yen were overwhelmed by the kindness and openness of everyone they spoke with and took away a much better understanding of the true meaning of FIRST.

Hopefully, we can take turn the ideas you shared into a plan for Team 1732's future. Thanks again, everyone!

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

In my opinion, if you're going to try to block a team, it is not ethical to give that team the impression you want to play with them to learn for certain if they'll decline your pick or not.

I guess we'll have to chalk this one up to a lesson learned. In the future anyone asking if we'll accept an alliance pick with them will be better scrutinized to learn the intent of their question.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

That pretty much sums it up, now can we all stop talking about 66/217's alliance selection methods? It seams that we all know what they did and at this point are just repeating what has already been said.

On a side note does anyone know if they have the match videos up yet?

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

I agree. would anyone happen to know where i could watch Dave's epic speech he gave on friday morning at? that was a great opening and i would love ot see it again.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

So I just talked to Dave Verbrugge trying to get a copy of "The Perfect Storm" and he said that he did not ever actually write it down, just had it in his head. As such, I was wondering if any team got it on video. He is also interested in seeing how it came out v. how it sounded in his head!

Thanks in advance!

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

He just came up with that in his head:eek:, that's amazing! I thought he came up with that in advance when I heard that. He must have an amazing memory to remember all of that.

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Dave is a walking FIRST data base. He has an amazing memory, which makes him so awesome. I always look forward to seeing what he will come up with next.:)

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

He said that he had jotted some notes on a napkin. What can I say? There's a reason HOT nominated him for WFA years ago...

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

What he told us in our post regional meeting was that the idea came to him on his way home from the West Michigan Regional. He spent Monday thinking about how he would do it. He jotted down notes for each regional that the GLR team had attended. Gathered information about team names, locations, etc.. , then mapped a general path of the 'perfect storm'.

He passed around his notes for us to see, but he does not have a final version of the speech. :yikes: From looking at the notes, I am still not sure how he did it.

Dave, you are AMAZING.

Other than the facts that he had no idea what I was talking about and that he doesn't really check out CD that often, with his unlimited knowledge of all the teams in FIRST, I really had a strong suspicion that Dave Verbrugge was "Looking Forward". But, he told me it was not true ;)

Re: Great Lakes Regional 08
 

Thank you. I was disappointed that we weren't able to play with you guys. There's always next year, maybe we'll even be on the same alliance. :yikes: