Chief Delphi - Shooters vs Arms

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- - Shooters vs Arms (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63474)

SgtMillhouse648

12-02-2008 16:40

Re: Shooters vs Arms

I personally feel that a combination of both a shooter and arm are vital to this year's game. Shooters are fast at some things, and absolutely horrible at others etc. placing on top of overpass. Arms are the same way. They both have their pros and cons, and to work to the best of their abilities, must work together to score the maximum number of points. We have an arm this year, but have come up with a way to score more points than the average arm....wait and see.......

Kellen Hill

12-02-2008 19:08

Re: Shooters vs Arms

Being able to set the ball up on the overpass gives you 12 points while doing another hurdle and crossing the line gets you 10. Where is the major advantage in 2 more points?

s_forbes

12-02-2008 20:23

Re: Shooters vs Arms

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill (Post 697623)

Being able to set the ball up on the overpass gives you 12 points while doing another hurdle and crossing the line gets you 10. Where is the major advantage in 2 more points?

Well, four more points, because you could also drive under after you place the ball. (or push the ball under, drive under, and put it up for 6 more points!)

But I think the real advantage to the placing the ball at the end is that you can do it on either overpass (correct me if I'm wrong...). So if you are stuck on the wrong side of the field and need a quick 12 points to win the match, placing the ball up is the way to go.

Sam N.

13-02-2008 00:11

Re: Shooters vs Arms

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill (Post 697458)

Well,

1. Shooters can have mechanisms to knock the ball down. I know my team does and,

2. A hurdle at the end of the game rather than setting it back on the overpass is just as good, you just miss out on a couple points.

I think effective shooters will dominate this years game.

I disagree,

My team has built a shooter but I think that well-built lifters will provide major competition.

A well-built, fast, and coordinated lifter will be just as powerful as a shooter in my opinion. Some teams have already proved this with their videos they have released.

Sam N.

Uberbots

13-02-2008 00:48

Re: Shooters vs Arms

Quote:

Originally Posted by hill (Post 697458)

I think effective shooters will dominate this years game.

I wouldnt be so quick to state that if i were you (=
in the end, the only major advantage that a shooter has over a lifter is that they dont need to stop in order to score. However, like lifters, they also have a range of scoring positions. For example, for a lifter to score, it will typically need to be right in front of the overpass before releasing the ball so that it can go over. With a shooter, if it is too close the ball will hit the underside of the overpass, and if it is too far away it might not go over altogether.

Tim Arnold

13-02-2008 06:04

Re: Shooters vs Arms

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggoldman (Post 693939)

Shooters

Cons:
Cannot Place on Overpass at end
Can be "Blocked" easily
Cannot (on their own) knock down balls off overpass.

Don't be so sure. As others have said, there is no reason that a properly built thrower can't also place on the overpass and knock down balls... and what if the release point is at 5 ft?

Another bot would have an awfully hard time getting in the way to start with, and then the 10lbs + momentum of the ball would be impacting the blocking robot 6ft in the air or so. I smell tipsy robots.

jacob07

13-02-2008 10:01

Re: Shooters vs Arms

Quote:

Originally Posted by s_forbes (Post 693949)

Who says a shooter robot can't take a ball down and put it back?

If teams were thinking ahead like they should be they should be able to knock the ball down, it wouldn't be that hard to make something to do that....would it?

Also if you were a shooter, wouldn't you have tested the tar outta of it? shouldn't you be able to get yourself in range of the overpass to be able to shoot it and land on the overpass, all it takes is testing and figuring out how far back you would have to be.

Just my two pennies

Jake

=Martin=Taylor=

13-02-2008 11:13

Re: Shooters vs Arms

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swampdude (Post 697396)

It's always true how you execute your design is the deciding factor as to how successful it will be. However 118 showed how easy it is to make a great launcher. We contemplated copying that when we saw it. It would have been easy to do (the launcher anyway). I'll bet a number of teams did. Why not?
However, all things being equal, this simply is the most efficient solution, mainly because of the clothesline factor. When executed properly you can't score faster with a mechanism that goes above the overpass for a period of time during the score. So how you get the ball off the ground becomes important, but no reason a shooter can't use the same mechanism an arm can.
Yes there will be plenty of arms scoring faster than shooters, but that will be because of execution or techniques. But if done right I can't see how even the best arm (anything that goes above the overpass) could score faster than the best shooter.

Exactly.

One thing I've noticed is that many of the successful "arms" are VERY adept at picking up the balls quickly (rollers: 121, 179, 1902...)
Yet they are slightly slower when it comes to hurdling.

The catapults on the other hand, excel at hurdling, but struggle to pick up the ball.

I believe that in the end the two designs will hurdle equally fast. Catapults will hurdle faster, and arms will pick-up faster. (provided of course that both designs are properly executed)

This is all the result of engineering trade offs...

jacob07

13-02-2008 11:21

Re: Shooters vs Arms

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hachiban VIII (Post 698022)

couldn't you theoretically combine both methods, have a arm lift the ball to the launcher?

MrForbes

13-02-2008 11:26

Re: Shooters vs Arms

We have an "arm" that picks up the ball just fine and loads it on the launcher.

It turned out that it is much easier than we thought it would be.

Kellen Hill

13-02-2008 11:31

Re: Shooters vs Arms

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam N. (Post 697858)

I disagree,

My team has built a shooter but I think that well-built lifters will provide major competition.

Sam N.

I agree with you, and think that they will provide lots of competition. It is just my opinion that I think "effective" shooters will dominate the game.

jacob07

13-02-2008 11:31

Re: Shooters vs Arms

Quote:

Originally Posted by squirrel (Post 698031)

We have an "arm" that picks up the ball just fine and loads it on the launcher.

It turned out that it is much easier than we thought it would be.

IMO those kinds of robots are going to be the winners in the end

hipsterjr

13-02-2008 11:52

Re: Shooters vs Arms

Our shooter has a fork on the front ( similar to 1726) and we can get the ball on the run. I have actually found it easier than it was to pick up ringer with our arm last year. Many less capable arms will requier more aiming to pick the ball up just right. I think where the shooters will gain the advantage is precision. Shooters can be a little (for lack of a better word) sloppier can still score. I would even dare to say easier to build and upkeep.

Spartan151

14-02-2008 09:32

Re: Shooters vs Arms

I'll tell you from firsthand experience that even though arms are a good idea, shooters are going to make the points. Our problem that we've had since week 3 (When we started on the arm) is that....well, the arm motors can't lift the combined weight of the arm, the claw, and the ball. So, we tried a lighter arm. Still couldn't lift the combined weight. Given the fact that our team doesn't have much to work with, we changed strategy.

Shooters have their advantages, and so do arms. They both have their cons. Just depends on what you want to do, really.

Joe Matt

14-02-2008 09:53

Re: Shooters vs Arms

Shooters all the way. Yes arms can get the balls on top if need be, but frankly people, the balls can easily be knocked off the overpass almost as easily as they were put up there. It's similar to 2003, it was too easy to remove the big points.

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