Update 11
 

Update #11 is out.

The good news: NO RULE CHANGES! Just two or three pieces of information that may be useful to some teams out there...

Re: Update 11
 

Of course there's no rule changes. We have to wait for ThunderChickens and Wildstang to get to their first competitions. ;)

Re: Update 11
 

:confused:
please enlighten me... :)

do they usually do something so out of the intent of the rules yet legal that the GDC have to change the rules AFTER the ship date?

has this ever happened?

-Leav

Re: Update 11
 

No robots starting on top of other robots, last year. (Wildstang strategy)

Rules have changed post-ship-date. Look up the 2002 rules/updates, and the furor over tape-measure tethers. (not one of the referenced teams)

Re: Update 11
 

The ThunderChickens reference was to whether teams could or could not bring power tools (bandsaws, etc) with them to competitions. That changed back and forth last year.

Re: Update 11
 

They did no such thing. Their reputation is among the best in FIRST.

The Thunderchickens have a trailer in which they have transported machine tools to several FRC events, at which they have allowed other teams to use them. This generous and gracious act got them in trouble during Week 1 last season, due to concerns about venue restrictions and potential liability. Nothing dangerous actually happened, but the incident resulted in a more clearly stated FIRST policy regarding power tools. You can find that policy in the 2008 FRC Manual, Sections 3.9.13 and 3.9.14.

Re: Update 11
 

I beg your pardon, and theirs. That didn't come out quite the way I meant it to.

Re: Update 11
 

Just to be clear, the play that we made last year of having our alliance partners form a stack before the match was completely legal, and specifically identified as such by a Q&A asked during the season (asked by another team). We did not bend the rules in any way, shape, or form by this move.

After this happened, FIRST reversed their decision and said this was no longer legal.

Re: Update 11
 

Cool! did you just wait in the home zone until match ends or did you have a sort of power-rangers style megzord robot with two manipulators?



-Leav

Re: Update 11
 

The stacked robots both immediately E-stopped and Wildstang proceeded to outscore the other alliance by themselves even without the bonus.

http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv...p?matchid=1735

Re: Update 11
 

It was a total jaw dropper when it occurred and made me realize anew how important coaching/strategy/and continuing to play the game is and how it can affect the outcome.

It is one of the defining moments that I still think about from 2007.

The Thunder Chickens mobile machine shop is another one. Excellence on wheels.

Re: Update 11
 

I remember seeing the video of Wildstangs alliance and though zomg that's a pretty cool way to guarantee 30 points. I like how they specified the legality of the '07 controller so now most vet's will have a spare.

Re: Update 11
 

It is amazingly cool to share the field with teams like Wildstang and the Thunderchickens. They were really graceful to us as a rookie team last year and made us feel at home. Actually, the little plastic chicken trophy we were given by the Thunderchickens is our teams favorite piece of memorabilia. (AND it squeaks!:D )

The effort that Wildstang went to in helping to get films made for the Blue Alliance has benefited a LOT of teams.

Make no mistake, these are some of the teams that make up the backbone of FIRST and their creativity on the field and off has benefited a ton of kids. That's what is important.

Re: Update 11
 

I'm a little surprised that they didn't have much follow up to the IR board issues that were mentioned in Team Update #10. There's a link to the master code, but no instructions on how to download it to the actual IR board.

Our IR board did experience the symptoms described in Update 10, but we were able to reflash the firmware after reading the posts on CD about it. But shouldn't these download instructions (with an ICSP cable) be documented on the FIRST website as well?

Re: Update 11
 

Well, to be honest, Team 217 has taken credit for a number of rule additions. Off the top of my head sharing credit for the "no air horns" rule after their "21 air horn salute" and "no food given away as swag" rule made after Peeps in eggs and "chicken feed" were tossed out and ended up all over the arena.

Game rule-wise, in '06 217 was responsible for relaxing "incidental contact" rules after 30 pt penalties got out of hand in Week 1. I'd have to ask their resident historian for a few others I'm forgetting...

Re: Update 11
 

THANK GOD! I don't have to re-read the manual. So...many...hours *twitches*

Re: Update 11
 

its not just the thunderchickens and wildstang that change rules as well,

in 05 team 522 had a wedge in front of their robot.

after that year most robots were restricted from having to much of a incline to form a wedge of the robot, found in rule books nowadays =D lol

Re: Update 11
 

We like to blame 330 and 67 for that one.:rolleyes: Both had wedges on their sides and one end, and used them only for defense. But when both won the Championship... Wedges would have become much more common, leading to lots of robots tipping all over, so wedges were banned altogether and we have the bumper rules.

Re: Update 11
 

I thought that was the no tipping rule. (And the GDC has denied going after any specific teams.)

Re: Update 11
 

actually i believe 522 tipped over several robots and moved any robot in their path in 05 like no ones business, i should know.. my team got pummelled by them lol..

and in nyc they pushed two robots into a stationary tetra no problem... scary..

in atlanta instead of pushing robots onto their wedge during a pushing match, they would just let them drive up it for their own fate... again my team did this lol

Re: Update 11
 

How about the infamous rule reversal of Ought Three, the one I believe was called update "68" where FIRST made decided that truck town thunders method of playing the game would be illegal even tho it wasn't currently against the rules. I just remember saying man that robots going to dominate play when they posted the bot on cd and the very next week remember thinking, that robots not going to be able to play. ( or atleast how it was originally intended )

As far as I know most rule changes spurred on by teams are for the better. And if everyone doesn't like something, there is always IRI where they "Take everything that stunk about the rules last year and fix them" lol Ironically said by Paul Copiolli during opening ceremonies.

Re: Update 11
 

The wedge rule came after a rookie team designed a robot who's only function was to tip other robots over. It took a while for the rule to make it into practice but a much shorter time for the rookie team to realize their mistake and become a great FRC team. Gracious Professionalism is alive and well.

Re: Update 11
 

Here's an oldie:

in 1992, the KHS ScienceKats (old TechnoKats name) fabricated an on-board compressor* to store up high pressure for shooting a projectile to knock off the middle tennis ball (the highest point ball). There was no rule against this, until the event officials saw what this robot could do. They then deemed it unsafe for that year, and subsequently outlawed the making of your own compressor on FIRST robots.

* - This thing was about as big as a pack of cigarettes. It used a solenoid in the kit to drive a piston, I believe. The piston shoved air through a check valve, and into a tank.

AB

Re: Update 11
 

This probably isn't the time or place to get into that matter again, but by my reading of the rules that year, their robot was in violation of them from the start.

Re: Update 11
 

I must have missed this. Can anyone possibly explain?

Re: Update 11
 

In 2003, your robot wasn't supposed to be designed to react against certain parts of the field. Truck Town built a robot that went into the middle of the field and unfolded over some of those elements in such a way that it made it effectively impossible for their opponents to cross the field (a chokehold strategy if ever there was one). Unfortunately, if they had gotten pushed they would react against those elements and become immovable. T3 was confident that they had enough traction that that wouldn't be an issue, but their design was deemed illegal. Here's a pic of the robot in its unfolded mode: picture.

Re: Update 11
 

Wow!
I had no idea Triple T inspired the no field element support rule. I just thought it was always that way.
Considering the "No one pushes Truck Town Thunder!" it would've worked too if it wasn't for those meddling rules!

Re: Update 11
 

It was that way already. This just inspired a large debate about whether or not it was their fault for reacting against the field when being pushed into the center bar, or the opposing team's fault for pushing them into it.