Chief Delphi - COTS question

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Hi,

I'm having a debate with a fellow FIRSTer now about the COTS rules.

If I make a part now identical to a COTS part (For example, I made one of AndyMark's hubs) in every way; Is it legal next season?

He says it is, as it is identical in every way.

I say it isn't, cause regardless of being physically identical, it was custom made and not made/sold by the COTS vendor.

so, is it?

Re: COTS question

If a tree falls in the woods, and nobody hears it, does it make a sound?

It's not COTS, but rather a fabricated item and therefore presumably illegal next year. But if it really is identical, nobody will be able to tell; so it's essentially cheating in a largely inconsequential way.

Re: COTS question

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall (Post 709527)

Tristan is right (and, therefore, so is Adam). At least for this year, the following rule/definition applies:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Section 8.2

COTS – A “Commercial, Off-The-Shelf” COMPONENT or MECHANISM, in it’s unaltered, unmodified
state. A COTS item must be a standard (i.e. not custom order) part commonly available from the VENDOR, available from a non-team source, and available to all teams for purchase.
 Example 1: a team orders two robot grippers from RoboHands Corp. and receives both items. They put one in their store room and plan to use it later. Into the other, they drill “lightening holes” to reduce weight. The first gripper is still classified as a COTS item, but the second gripper is now a “custom part” as it has been modified.
 Example 2: a team obtains openly available blueprints of a drive component commonly available from Wheels-R-Us Inc. and has local machine shop “We-Make-It, Inc.” manufacture a copy of the part for them. The produced part is NOT a COTS item, because it is not commonly carried as part of the standard stock of We-Make-It, Inc.
 Example 3: a team obtains openly available design drawings from a professional publication during the pre-season, and uses them to fabricate a gearbox for their ROBOT during the build period following kick-off. The design drawings would be considered a COTS item, and may be used as “raw material” to fabricate the gearbox. The finished gearbox itself would be a FABRICATED ITEM, and not a COTS item.

Especially note Example 2, which is the precise situation that Adam described.

Re: COTS question

If it truly is identical, seems to me that you could just list the COTS item and its original vendor in the BOM as an alternate FISRT-legal supplier. And as Tristan said, if it was identical, who would notice or care?

Personally, I disagree with the interpretation of the example of section 8.2 example 2 EricH provided. AndyMark would still be a legal supplier of the hub and not just the plans. Therefore, any team could acquire the part without the lead time needed for it to be manufactured.

I am obviously not the GDC, but I would give the self made identical part at least one passing grade on the "would another team consider this an unfair advantage?" test. :)

Of course, perhaps a better question would be why would you want to make your own hub when a perfectly good COTS one is available from everyone's favorite supplier? If it is to make it ever so slightly different, the whole question is out! Especially, the identical part better weigh exactly the same or that's just downright cheating. :p