NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

Did anybody else just catch that yellow card issued in NJ QF2-1? 186 rammed the Blue Station Wall and disconnected a Blue Alliance Control Board. So the match was stopped and all. Then the refs issued yellow cards to the entire red alliance. I don't see anything in at all in the Tournament Rules about carding an entire alliance. Carding a team for a robot or team member, yes. DQing an entire alliance for a red card or DQ on a single elim alliance team, yes. Carding an entire alliance for the actions of one robot on the alliance, completely unsupported. I have to think they confused the DQing an entire alliance and decided that meant they should card the whole alliance, but someone should really really call NJ and see if they can de-card the other two improperly carded alliance members.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

I may be confusing rules between years here but what gives the refs the power to disqualify a team (303 earlier in the competitiin) or give a team a yellow card in the first place for ramming into a wall in teleoperated mode? Correct me if I Am wrong but if a robot bashes the wall and makes your control box fall I have no sympathy for your team for not strapping it in with the provided Velcro in the drivers station! It is a sucky situation for you if your control box drops but its your own fault IMHO.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

They quoted "aggressive autonomous driving". T05 says a team can be yellow carded for egregious robot or team member behavior. So I imagine it's up to the refs whether that is or not, and I'm not arguing the call on a yellow card. I just don't think they're supposed to card an entire alliance for one team's actions.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

I'm with you on this one Elgin. I also saw that team 303 was DQ'd in an earlier qualifying match. It's the first time I can ever remember seeing a team DQ'd for hitting into an alliance station wall in hybrid (autonomous) mode. Or for hitting into a wall in the first place.

Teams should have their control system secured in some form or another.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

I think it is extremely unfortunate that the alliance was penalized for the ramming in hybrid mode.

I agree with earlier statements that no where in the rules does it say that an entire alliance (or even a single team) should be penalized for ramming against the wall.

I know that we have always secured our controls and I recommend that all teams do their best to keep their controls secure during competition!

Good Luck! :)

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

While i'm not going to comment on the yellow card issue, I find the timeout call interesting during that match. After the teams controls fell to the ground and the match was called to an early end, a team called for their timeout for robot repairs. While reading <T19> it would seem that you wouldn't be able to call a timeout here because in logic it is still the same match.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

I agree that the entire alliance shouldn't have been penalized. Maybe there was a mix-up with <G24>.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

This has been around for awhile. During 2005 at the Philadelphia Regional our alliance partner received a red card during the finals. As a result our entire alliance was DQed and our alliance was given a loss instead of penalty points. The rules for the Playoffs have always applied alliance wide vs. Team wide. I must I saw shocked when it happened to us 3 years ago, and I was pretty pissed.

Sadly I don't have sympathy when the entire alliance got carded, at least they got to keep playing. I think its a silly rule, but its been around for awhile..

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

Their autonomous hit the players station after already being warned the first time their robot did it. They ignored the warning, so the second infraction was a yellow card.

Regarding giving the entire alliance a yellow, it seems to be an interpretation of Rule <T11>. This should be addressed next week.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

As a member of 836, a member of the 816 Alliance, I understand why 816 got the yellow card, and I understand that if they had another infraction the entire alliance would have been DQ'd - but I think the call to give us (836) and 708 a yellow card was incorrect. My reading of the rules show this to be a misinterpretation of <T05> - <T11>. At no point does it say the yellow card goes to an alliance, only mentions a "Team."

Best regards,

Steve

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

The entire Elim Alliance being DQ'd for a red card is very clearly spelled out in T11. Similarly in reply to Dan, T11 doesn't mention a thing about yellow cards or any cards applying to an entire alliance. Just that a red card DQ's the whole alliance, because just DQing one team wouldn't make sense. I agree that this rule is from whence the confusion sprang, but I don't think there's any reasonable way of reading it like this.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

They called for the timeout not for robot repairs but for control system repairs. I feel that one bad apple spoils the bunch once again yea it's the teams responsibilty to secure their property properly but it's also the teams responsibility to test their robot 100% in the alotted time they have with the robot between build, practicing on chocks and tether in the pits, or on the practice field or even on practice day... theres more then enough time to sit and analyze the code and have it removed completely to have it corrected. I share no sympathy for a team that chooses not to utilize that time properly and agree w/ whatever the punishment is handed down. You have an opportunity and given a fair chance by some of the fairest people around to correct any mistakes... Theres used to be and still is a time where robots are not allowed on the field if the officials feel that the robot can endanger the equipment and or other property and more importantly the safety of all those who need to be within close quarters of the field.

:( It hurts to see a team to see a team penalized but its their fault and must accept the punishment even if it was just an accident. On thursday the head ref and or others probably took notes of all the possible threats and I'm sure he and others took such action b/c the threats still exsisted on game day. Teams were warned in 2 - 3 different drivers meetings and were warned leaving the field on practice day about all this. And if they weren't then she should've asked the questions at the meetings. There's no excuse whats so ever except laziness.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

Yeah. It was our fault and we know that. We changed our autonomous and we didnt know it was going to do that.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

Yea but see thats why we have a practice field and if you can't get on it then you can just chock it and count the sec's that go by and adjust from there. Ok it's an honest mistake but it was correctable before this should've even happened. Thankfully enough the teams that play in FIRST are cool headed people and just get upset at the mis-fortune and don't try and retalliate back.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

Lol we did that and it was a mistake from our programmer/possible IR interference. We personally as the alliance did not get bothered by the yellow card.