Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

Firstly, I wasn't there so this may be off. However, I respectfully think this statement is insulting to the teams. When in competition with people screaming at you telling you the robot needs to get to competition, and not having the ability to go to the practice field, how does counting the seconds let them know if they have gone too far. If they were at home testing code I would agree, but this is during the stress of competition, and it's bound to happen. It's a part of FIRST , not something that should never happen. Not all mechanical elements of robots work, why should all the software? Don't blame the programmers. =(

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

I personally believe that with the amount of potential interference etc such a call should not have been made. As noted in earlier matches the lap counters are IR emitters and it often becomes uncontrollable. With the number of variables involved in coding it is unreasonable to expect a program to work perfectly after having been warned once.

On a side note why not have lips on the player stations. This would stop OIs from falling far more effectively than velcro and would enforce the size limits as prescribed in the rules.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

If the robot is on chocks, you can watch the motions of the drive train and count down 15 secs. Mark a part of the actual tread / wheel and count the rpms and if it appears that the drive train is too fast and has gone no where but in that direction then adjust the program accordingly to try and slow down the robot OR put a turn command in that way it'll at least nail the side barrier and not the player station b/c to be honest there's not much holding that player station in place to start with but it's little bit of weight, some support from around the field and velcro. Why do you think it moves so much when ever it gets hit? I personally think better re-inforcement of the player stations will solve some problems of the decks being flung to the floor after being nailed by a robot doing 30mph. Look at the team who lost their entire OI b/c the Comp Port ripped right out of the OI after the wall took a hard hit from one robot.

I forget which team and what local event I saw this at but it worked... The practice field was unavailable for w/e reason so they chocked it, had a person with a stopwatch, had another person watch the drive train movements and guess how fast it was moving and adjusted accordingly... In the end they managed to get the robot where they needed it program wise w/ using only wood, a basic watch and good eyes. I'm not trying to say that stuff won't happen but if it does there are multiple ways to do correct it before you get to the Queuing box and even still you can try and tether before we get a hold of you to get on the field like some try and do. Sorry if I insulted the programmers out there :(. Just trying to say that there's more then one way to fix something w/o having the right tool for the right job available for you to use.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

I thought about that yesterday exactly. Don't be surprised if a control deck specification comes out in the '09 game. Right now the specs say it must fit the current level deck. I think it's time that deck had like a 1/2" lip on it and lock down bars to keep the controls from jumping up. Velcro will wear out too easily if every team used it.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

Also on of the things we thought was that you had one warning before a yellow card. Our programmer made a small adjustment to give the robobees time to clear and we had no idea that the entire system of timers messed up so thats what put us into the wall. It was strange because our auto had worked flawlessly throughout the competion

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

thats odd then, I don't think I remember talking w/ the FTA personell about how well the timers were performing. They couldn't have been that bad since they still were using them this entire event. I mean they had a manual counter as well to make sure that all was ok. Hmmm... Well if the Counters could be whats causing some issues then maybe they'll be a fix for it by week 2. *ponders now*

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

lol our programmer put our wait sequence in the wrong spot he told me so himself our other auto still works great, and it was my decision to add the wait in the program so yeah... I like the yellow card though it gave us character lol. Also our auto had been so successful earlier in the competition because we didn't have to worry about other people running. For dead reckoning (no sensor input) we did pretty well getting our three lines.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

Yeah I didn't get that my team was chanting random cheers (1403 cnt shut there mouths lol ) when they explained what was going on with that..was that the match the controller fell?

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

This was quarter final 3-1, we went down in auto/hybrid and whacked the wall pretty hard and they originally thought someone's controller dislodged and unplugged. Well they had some kind weird problem and called a timeout and mean while we got yellow carded for ramming the player station in auto.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

Team control panels falling during auto/hybrid isn't necessarily a new thing. It happened to us (1629) in autonomous in 2006. There was no penalty for the opposing alliance, and we were given time to fix the panel before restarting the match. I don't agree with DQ'ing a team for it during hybrid, especially if the other team can run that match. (I'm refering to the match where 303 was DQ'd at NJ; someone correct me if I have information wrong, I was only watching the webcast.) A yellow card, I can understand, and a DQ for a subsequent infraction wouldn't be out of line, but a DQ for a first offense seems entirely too harsh to me.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

Actually Dan,

The team was warned during Qualifying matches, not eliminations. When teams enter eliminations, their slate is supposed to be wiped clean. However, this year's yellow card is to be given for "egregious" robot or team member actions. If the head ref thought the one time was egregious, the yellow card could have been given. That is up to that particular head referee's interpretation of the action. I'm not sure exactly which rule the head ref believed was violated "egregiously" in this case because I can't seem to find one. I guess you could lump it under S01...

My question is whether or not the timing of the yellow card was appropriate. The yellow card was given during the reset of the match. To me, that would mean the match had yet to be completed. Can a team receive a yellow card for a match that had yet to be completed? What if their robot had again rammed the player wall when they replayed the match, would the alliance get DQ'ed for receiving a second yellow card in the same match?

This kinda follows Dez's point about the time out being called during the middle of the match...

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

The match had to be called off due to loss of communication with the field at the competition port plug in. Had the controller just been broken the match would've continued (see the match where 303 was DQ'ed). But since the field itself was broken and needed repair, the match was null and void, which is when the alliance used their time-out.

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

George, after watching the video today with our robocoach we had assumed that the issue was not with the control panel but the field itself, it's nice to see some clarification though. Btw, nice Job announcing in NJ, also do you have your rap written down somewhere? I can see the yellow card rules being clarified in the next update

I would like to motion that any rule or clarification of a rule on this matter shall be nicknamed the 816 rule. Anyone with me?

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

How about the 816 Alliance rule! :)

Best regards,

Steve

Re: NJ Elim Yellow Card Oddity
 

Fair enough, from now on we will call this rule the "816 Alliance rule". Does anyone know of what rule number refers to this? I searched and could not find it.

I just checked the most recent rule book published by FIRST and there is no mention of an alliance sharing a yellow card in the Tournament section, they just refer to anyone robot getting a red card DQ's the entire alliance