Intentionally blocking traffic in Hybrid
 

After just seeing 1114 and 1024's amazing hybrid modes illegally impeded, i have to post this.

CMON!

If you are going to call high speed ramming in hybrid, at least be consistent and call it when teams make their hybrid drive 3 feet forward to blatantly impede in hybrid.

I've seen 1114 lose multiple matches because impeding was allowed. Even with the 10 point penalty assessed, it is cheap; 1024 and 1114 could've easily scored another 12-20 points in hybrid there.

Re: Impeding in Hybrid
 

I believe an update allows impeding in hybrid mode.

Re: Impeding in Hybrid
 

Okay, based on update 2 and 5, I see that no mention of impeding exists in hybrid mode.

Still, I don't like that high speed ramming is called, when it is clearly an unintentional act, and impeding is. Also, I will be very upset to see any team get called for ramming in hybrid after they hit a robot that drove 3 feet to impede traffic in hybrid (that would not be illegal, as the 3 foot drive is attempting to get hit, and you can't draw penalties). It's a shady strategy overall.

I understand it is legal per the rules now, I'm just venting.

Re: Impeding in Hybrid
 

The rules used to prohibit impeding all the time, but were changed in team update 2.

Re: Impeding in Hybrid
 

I think one difference is that high speed ramming can cause damage to the other robots, while impeding doesn't (unless the other robot is going to fast and cannot stop). I actually like the strategy of having a defensive autonomous. I don't think they are attempting to draw ramming penalties, because that would be wrong.

Re: Impeding in Hybrid
 

I think it sucks. You aren't allowed to intentionally impede anyone during teleoperated mode, so why should you be able to in hybrid?

Re: Impeding in Hybrid
 

And that it is kind of hard to require that all teams make their robot able to respond to bumps to pass autonomously, which is the reason why the rules are like they are, I imagine.

Re: Impeding in Hybrid
 

Teams that have high-speed hybrid modes that can get far enough to be impeded likely also have the talent to have a 'stop' command that they can give in hybrid. If you see your team is going to ram another, it's your job to stop it, not their job to get out of the way.

And getting penalties for high-speed in autonomous isn't new. Back in 2006 when drive-straight blocking was all the rage, teams that were deemed too fast would get stern talks from the refs.

Re: Impeding in Hybrid
 

But what if your IR isnt strong enough? you get a penalty because your remote isnt as good as the next teams? and crossing the line to hit the estop is a penalty too. So what gives? you get a penalty just for trying to NOT get a penalty.

Re: Impeding in Hybrid
 

There are many solutions:
Slow down as you enter their zone, or use a different technology than IR, or have a command that says "warning: the opposing team is blocking us, slow down when you enter their zone", and give it as soon as you see that the opposing team is trying to impede you. You don't have to give a real-time command to stop.

Actually, aren't the robo-coach stations for your alliance located at both ends of your home zone? That means as you enter the most likely area for impediment entering the opposing home-zone, your robocoach is just feet away.

I don't think there's been a year where high-speed in autonomous has been A-OK. If you're going to go fast, there had better be some form of safety for other teams, whether it is a robocoach stop command, not going fast when you're likely to encounter others, or active detection like ultrasound or cameras. The alternative amounts to: "I want 120lbs of metal to go as fast as possible in hybrid, and if another team gets damaged by that, it's not my fault: it's hybrid mode"

Re: Impeding in Hybrid
 

I think this is a poor comparison, because as you said, the intent was clearly for these teams to ram another team to mess up their autonomous program.

1114 in specific was yellow carded for ramming an opponent. Their autonomous is clearly not designed to hit other teams to interfere with them. It;s designed to go around the field and score points. This is a crucial difference.

Re: Impeding in Hybrid
 

I guess my response to that was what I edited in just as you posted: the intent may be to have a successful autonomous mode and not to hurt anyone, but to have 120lbs of metal moving as fast as it can without trying (or rather: to have a game where there is no incentive) to reduce the amount of damage it'd do to things in its path can be seen as a bit reckless. There needs to be some pressure on teams to reduce speeds when they might encounter opponents (like when they enter the opposing team's home zone where impeding teams are likely to be).

Re: Impeding in Hybrid
 

Yesterday morning at the drivers meeting here in Portland, the question came up. The head ref said impeding was illegal during hybrid, intentional or not. However, I have never seen them call it, though I have seen them call ramming, even though it was unintentional.

Re: Impeding in Hybrid
 

how about this: you are not allowed to intentionally impeed robots in your home zone, so basically you are not allowed in that zone to drive 3 feet and stop, but otherwise its allright. Because if there isn't going to be rule change here, its going to become common place for teams to drive 3 feet to stop the good hybrid bots.

Re: Impeding in Hybrid
 

Regardless of the ramming team's intent, high-speed ramming penalties exist to protect the other robots from damage.