Re: Competition Professionalism
 

I have to agree with you here. Even if you don't like the dancing you can think of it as a chance to let go after a very long period of stress. BTW stress usually isn't kind to our bodies if present too long.

Re: Competition Professionalism
 

I had a lot of stressful situations at the competition over the past three days. As we were waiting for one of our semifinal matches yesturday they took a time out for robot repairs. I usually don't dance but when the YMCA came on I just couldn't help but dance. After the dancing was done I felt very relieved.

Re: Competition Professionalism
 

I've met with many sponsors, parents, judges and other adults (volunteers and spectators) who's primary contact time with FIRST is a regional event. They love they energy of the events - including the dancing. I took my Mom to the inaugural St. Louis Regional (2002?) and she was all grins watching students and mentors doing the chicken dance. It clearly impressed her that this program allows kids of all ages to "let their hair down" and enjoy themselves.

Certainly, the matches are intense and the crowd responds with cheers to team introductions, exciting finishes and scores being posted. I don't think that the level of energy (cheering and applauding) can be sustained between the finals matches (6+ minutes) without some other crowd participation activity. So, why NOT dancing? Even if you suck at dancing as much as I do, you can dance at a FIRST regional without fear of ridicule - especially if you believe others around you are laughing with you not at you.:D

One other thing, as far as I know, there are not many people being paid to participate in the regionals, so the "professionalism" rules of the office (except at Google) don't really apply at a FIRST competition. If you're looking for the kind of professionalism that exists in a design review, don't expect students, mentors and volunteers to be attracted to the program.

My wife adds that dancing is an expression of the soul and the soul is meant to be happy! Celebrate!!!!

Re: Competition Professionalism
 

I dont think this thread is in the right place. What Henry is saying is he is worried that some students dont get involved and arent inspired. What does that have to do with dancing? I'll say it again it is up to each team and each student to make sure they get what they want to out of FIRST. You cant force a student to do anything. Maybe they are just joining because it is a social event. Is there anything wrong with that? They are still getting some experience that they wouldnt have had. This is probably the case for most freshmen, because they dont know what they are getting into. They will learn over the summer, and come back as Sophomores and are more able to contribute.
I am going to quote one of our mentors from last year who runs a college engineering lab "I've had kids that come into my program that dont even know how to work a screwdriver. You kids will learn so much and it will put you ahead of the game, even if you only learned to use a screwdriver through FIRST." May not be exact, but that was his point. Even if kids arent as involved as some they will still get a little experience. If they wouldnt have joined FIRST, they wouldnt have that experience. Like I said what the kids get out of it is up to them. If they want to learn alot they will, if they just want to get their feet wet they will.
Joey

Re: Competition Professionalism
 

Henry,

The way that I look at it is that everyone expresses their enthusiasm in different ways. As someone who spent 13 years of my life in a dance studio (both prior to and during my time in FIRST), I learned to express my emotions through physical movement. And that's how I look at dancing at competitions. These kids are excited, they're trying to get it out. For me, by nature, emotions are let out via physical movement.

There is, however, a line, and I'm sure that most of us know where that is. FIRST competitions are obviously not the place for "dirty dancing", and for the most part, I haven't seen them treated as one.

So I guess that my overall thoughts are, dance the night away. One thing that I have learned in business/accounting school, is that business-people enjoy having fun as much as the next person. They may not be the ones standing out there breaking it down with you, but they're the ones laughing along with you.

Re: Competition Professionalism
 

All,
I appreciate the feedback, but there are still generalizations being made that I did not state.
1)GO CRAZY! I am just not down with the on field dancing.
2)I would hate it if FIRST was a stoic, office like atmosphere.
3)I am not saying that anyone who dances has no purpose on the team, far from that. My only issue is that the kids with no function, the ones who have fallen through the cracks, generally are out there dancing with friends from school. I am well aware of the value and worth of the PR team, the fund raising team, the animations team etc. A FIRST team is a team, as previously stated. It has many facets.

Go absolutely nuts for your team and the things that have been accomplished. Having fun can be done in any manner of ways. I would just like a little more game preservation.

Re: Competition Professionalism
 

I don't see how the on field dancing is so horrible could you please explain in a PM or send a message to me on AIM. And how can you say the ones of the field dancing are the ones with no function?

Re: Competition Professionalism
 

I am not saying that.

I feel that the dancing interferes with the time low of the game.
Kids with any number of functions may or may not dance, I am not assuming here.
Kids with no function, that I have seen, generally are out dancing, not paying attention to the competition, hanging out in the arena etc. That does not in any way mean that the kids who dance don't have a function. I am just saying that SOME don't. It is THOSE kids that I am concerned for.

Re: Competition Professionalism
 

Can every one just stop talking about the dancing? It is what the thread is about, but not the issue that Henry is talking about.



What are you concerned about? Read some of my earlier posts in this thread. It is up to the students about how much they get out of the program. FIRST sets up a program to succeed, all students need to do is commit. You need to stop worrying about those who dont commit because it is their choice. If they dont want to take advantage of this opportunity it is their own problem. Kids will have more fun when they get involved, but they need to take it upon themselves. If they dont want to commit, just go with it. Focus on teaching those who are commited to working and doing their jobs, even if it has absolutely nothing to do with the robot.
Joey

Re: Competition Professionalism
 

I read those posts and I agree. I am aware of the students choice to do what they wish to do. I am concerned for the growth of the group of kids who don't have a role. Eventually pushing some quantity of the members of FIRST in a direction that is not encapsulated in the ideals of the program.

Re: Competition Professionalism
 

Well, Henry, that brings up a few things (not the recent post, the one above Laaba's):

1) Either you asked these students/kids what their team position is, or you spent way too much time following them around.

2) Define "falling through the cracks". For the lack of memory and "googling" skills I'll just lightly remind you of Bill Gates. There are many, many others.

3) I understand now where the dancing part comes in, thanks for clarifying it. I do understand that sometimes the dancing may carry on a few minutes more than expected. But if you're a volunteer, that is almost implied, and you really don't have to be here. Cruel, but true. If you're a team member/mentor who does not want to dance, fine. That's your choice. But this is somewhat a celebration, so they're just having fun. Besides, what's the rush? Yes, there is a schedule, and for the most part it is followed pretty strictly by the officials and teams. But even if you're running late, there must be some time to dance, dance, dance.

Re: Competition Professionalism
 

Joey,
I think it is ok to talk about all the topics in this thread, dancing being one of them. After some time has passed and we are into the lazy hazy days of summertime, this will be a great thread to read and reflect on. Some of the posts on all the topics involved have been great reads with valuable insights, separately and together.

As the thread has developed, the individual topics have become more evident and so we are dealing with several in one thread. And that's ok, so far we are all managing to work with communication. It's a great opportunity to pay attention to everything that is being said. This has happened in team meetings. One topic evolves into 3 or 4 and then everyone is talking and then chaos. But - if handled carefully and with respect, all topics are listened to, addressed, or tabled for future consideration. This thread reminds me of that.

Re: Competition Professionalism
 

[IMHO] This depends on the entire team as well as those specific kids who are "falling through the cracks."

It is up to the mentors, teachers, and captains to make sure that everyone in the stands has a role and responsibility. Its not like teams let kids join and don't teach them how to do anything (if there are then they need to change that).

For example, we generally have over 50 people in the stands. There are generally 10 students scouting for matches. Then, there are the multiple alternates we have for each scout. There are also alternates for the scout captains b/c let's face it, scouting isn't the most fun thing in the world. There are students who are there to scout in the pit area and then report back to field scouts. Then there are liaisons who are constantly communicating with the drive team/programming/scout team and also other alliance partners. So as you can see, it really depends on how strong of an organization that team you are talking about really is. The student involvement is not only individual but also communal.

We barely have students not doing anything.

Re: Competition Professionalism
 

When I clicked on this thread to read about it, I was interested in reading about the dancing because that's what the thread is about. Henry's other issue is a tangent in a thread about dancing, so maybe you should be asking a moderator to split the tangent into another thread or start a new thread about it so that people who do not click on this thread because they have no opinion one way or another on dancing at the competitions can decide if they want to discuss the crack fallers. If another thread is started on that subject, I'll comment on it then.

Every job I've had as an adult has had Holiday parties, summer picnics, and other celebratory gatherings for "jobs well done." And we've danced, secretaries, managers, counselors, directors, tech support... we've all danced. I also think of the competitions as a reward for all of the hard work everyone involved with FIRST has done. No, I wouldn't jump on the table during a board meeting and do the Funky Chicken, just as the refs and announcers aren't doing the Funky Chicken during the matches.

Our students have often volunteered to show VIPs around at the VCU competition. There's a wonderful balance between the hard work going on in the pits to the fierce intensity of the matches and the joyful celebration between the matches that has done nothing but impress those VIPs. Over the years I have invited friends of mine to the competitions: a mechanical engineer, a civil engineer, an astronomer, a medical technician, a public relations manager, a computer programmer, etc. Everything about the competitions impressed them, including the dancing. To them, the dancing is a reflection of happiness and enthusiasm, and all of them have remarked that they wished they had something in their lives that inspired so much enthusiasm.

Heidi

Re: Competition Professionalism
 

I only said stop talking about the dancing because people seem to be trying to put words into Henry's mouth. He has said he doenst have a problem with dancing multiple times. If people want to talk about dancing, thats fine, however that is not the "big" issue Henry is talking about.
Joey