Re: Improving Officiating at FIRST Events
 

Sorry I should have clarified I was thinking. I was proposing something more along the lines of a web-based one. Where every ref would have to attend, maybe a system similar to soap's gameday would work.

Re: Improving Officiating at FIRST Events
 

Neither of those truly reflects the real game.
FIRST has some way of testing the game before kickoff. I don't know what it is, but the week 1 regionals aren't the first time the game gets played. Somehow, it has to involve driving real robots around on a real field.
The problem with releasing such a video is that part of the game is figuring out how it will be played. If we all got to watch a few real matches on Kickoff day, it would completely change the build season. Perhaps the video could be released a week or so before ship date - late enough that it won't affect anyone's design, but early enough to be studied to death and to have questions clarified in the Q&A.

Re: Improving Officiating at FIRST Events
 

Absolutely. If that's what it takes to get consistent, accurate, and better refereeing, then I wouldn't think twice about paying a few hundred dollars for it.

Re: Improving Officiating at FIRST Events
 

OK, everyone's rich and can pay the refs' transportation and lodging fees.

Now, who's going to go to all the refs' day job employers and explain why they need a couple extra days vacation?

Re: Improving Officiating at FIRST Events
 

While there is a real field at kickoff, there are no real robots until teams build them. There are pre-ship scrimmages, with more or less attention to the rules, but the week 1 regionals are the first time the game is played for real.

Re: Improving Officiating at FIRST Events
 

You want to wager six dozen Krispy Kremes on that?

The Week 1 regional competition events are the first time ANYONE sees the game played for real. And, yeah, I am _very_ sure about that.

-dave

Re: Improving Officiating at FIRST Events
 

wow that's a huge surprise to me I had the same thoughts as Steven

Re: Improving Officiating at FIRST Events
 

I wouldn't be surprised if there were some human simulations prior to Kickoff, but the robots thing doesn't surprise me much. Imagine how much time and effort it takes to design and build a robot with a whole team in six weeks. Now imagine building six robots with thirteenish people (sorry, don't remember how many people are on the GDC) who live long distances from one another and are busy with their other jobs. The GDC is made up of talented people, so if we assume it takes them six weeks to design and build each robot, which I think is not excessive given their lack of manpower, it would take eight months to complete six robots. That means they would have to complete the game design in March in order to get a month to test the game in December.

Re: Improving Officiating at FIRST Events
 

Actually, FIRST has an account with the equivalent of $8 million cash in it. I think they could afford the ~$16,000 it would cost to fly 40 referees to Manchester (less, really, since many head refs do more than one regional.

Re: Improving Officiating at FIRST Events
 

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about getting ALL referees up to speed.

The amount of available cash still doesn't explain how you're going to get the referees, head or otherwise, excused from their day jobs to attend said conference.

Re: Improving Officiating at FIRST Events
 

Do it the weekend before the first weekend of events.

If you're going to sign up for a job as important as head referee, you ought to be committed enough to doing a good job to have a day or two to put towards doing it right. I understand they're volunteers and taking time out of their schedule to support FIRST, but if there are consistently problems, there's got to be a better way to do things.

Re: Improving Officiating at FIRST Events
 

I'm not sure if this rule has been mentioned yet but clarification on whether a ball supported by a bot and the overpass is counted for 12 bonus points. EXTREMELY important: this was the rule that made teams replay the final match of SVR

Re: Improving Officiating at FIRST Events
 

I'm sorry, but now we're approaching the realm of ridiculous.

That was a blue ball, supported by the overpass and touched by a red robot.

There is absolutely no need for any clarification on this rule, unless I'm reading it wrong.

Re: Improving Officiating at FIRST Events
 

I understand the frustration of having inconsistent calls but, lets remember two things:
1. We do not have professional Referees. They have real jobs. They take time out of their busy lives to help you play a game. They are Volunteers, and they deserve all the goodwill that you can give them even when they make a bad call.

2. The game changes every year. The the week one regionals are the first time anyone has seen the game played. If the game was carried over for a few years, i could see the calls being more and more consistent, however, with the format we have now we will have to be contented with a flawed game.

The only solution i feel that could remedy this problem would be for the GDC to significantly reduce the complexity of the games. The more complex the game the more there is for the refs to look at. The less complex, the easier time they will have.

Re: Improving Officiating at FIRST Events
 

I agree with you--BUT, we're not talking about judgment calls here. We're talking about specific instances in which the rules as written were EXTREMELY clearly about the way certain situations are to be scored, and having the referees score them incorrectly.

That signals that the referees may not have a basic understanding of the rules, which is inexcusable, whether they be volunteers or not.

This referee test was supposed to help make things more consistent. In order to make the process as transparent as possible, why not release it to the public? It would show a lot of goodwill on FIRST's part, and unless the test is just a formality, and not really effective, alleviate some concern that FIRST is not adequately preparing the referees.