Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

i look around and there seems to be ton and tons of arms and lauchers. i feel that the only use of our hearding manipulator would be to knock down the ball in hybrid. does any else have a hearding bot? what are your worries? can you knock down the ball? what do you plan on doing?
my biggest worry right now is that we will be a useless bot and not get picked into an alliance.
what do you guys think?

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

There are other herders. 702 is herd-only. I saw a team at Midwest that could only herd. Oh, and if you aren't herding, just run laps.

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

Team 702 will be competing with you guys for the title of the best herder at the LA regional. They are very fast and have a PVC cage that controls the ball.

I think that herding and running laps will be very important at the LA regional.

You might want to read this 50+ post thread about the subject: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=64899

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

Well fast lappers have proven themselves to be very effective. See 148. If you can corral a trackball and deftly and quickly maneuver it around the track, while quickly releasing the ball, letting it cross the line, and reacquiring it without much delay, you can theoretically lap half as fast as 148 and be equally as effective. The only drawback I can see is that you may periodically be taking away a trackball from another robot in your alliance who may prefer to hurdle.

I've seen teams with round "hoops" that surround the horizontal equator of the ball and "marble" it around the floor quite easily. I could see these teams having success, especially if they also have a way to knock down balls off the overpass.

Just go out, do your thing, avoid penalties, and do this consistently well. You'll be most "useful" - you'll be fine.

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

It you can get the trackballs off the overpass, then you might be the best addition to a alliance. Out of the 45 robots at St. Louis, there were only 10-15 teams that where good to great at getting the trackballs off. Some teams might be great hurdlers and placers, but if you can't get the trackballs off in a timely manner, then you can easily lose the match.

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

there is never a useless bot in a FIRST event, if you are herding you can always herd the ball around the track and leave it the end zone for a hurdler, or if the other robots are busy bring the ball around the track again

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

There is another team i know of that is a herder (carries the ball around and goes uber fast) but i can't say anything more besides "you aren't alone."

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

There's definitely room in this game for excellent herding robots. The robot that I've seen this year that clearly demonstrated this was the robot of "The Riot Crew" from Portland, Maine, Team #58. At the week 1 Granite State Regional, this robot was the #4 scorer through the first 9 qualifying rounds according to the data collected by our scouting team. They scored a total of 292 points (an average of 32.44 per round) as follows:

• 0 hurdles
• 39 herds
• 20 robot-only laps
• 96 points in autonomous

They also dislodged quite a few opponent's balls at the end of the matches with their amazingly simple ball-dislodging mechanism which enabled them to dislodge balls while driving under the overpass at full speed.

They ended up as the #11 seed, and were the first pick by the #3 seeded team (1512) in the selection draft. The alliance of 1512, 58, and 1517 progressed to the finals of the tournament -- team 58 was a major contributor to that alliance's success!

The driving of Team 58's robot was a joy to watch, and once they acquired the ball, there wasn't much of an opportunity for other teams to take it away. It was a joy to watch and was well-deserving of the General Motors Industrial Design Award it received.

As to whether or not there will still be a role for such herders at later regionals, I don't know, but Team 58 and their herding robot was definitely a factor at GSR!

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

Team 58 did very well for themselves as a herder in New Hampshire. They were a first round pick, and regional finalist. They had one of the best autonomous modes I've seen, and they managed to score quite a few points in teleop mode just by driving laps, and releasing the ball as they drove through.

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

We have the option of hurding and will probably do so if the congestion on the field allows. We can hurd on the fly in practice, however, if the field is congested, we will probably opt to retain possession and hurdle.

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

Herders and racers have their place in this game. If you can drive fast and maintain control you will be an asset to an alliance as there are only two balls of your color in the game. We had two fast racers in St Louis one was picking in the elimination rounds and the other was picked. Practice speed and maneuvering on Thursday push your comfort zone, but avoid penalties!

Good Luck!

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

Absolutely not. 1646 is a herder and can knock balls off the overpass as well. Why be just a race robot when you can be a race robot with ball control capabilities? That's our thinking as least, we'll see how things go at the Boilermaker Regional in week 3.

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

That's exactly what we had in mind when we built Homer.

But I will guarantee we're the only herder that looks like a hippopotamus....

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

Team 2374 from Oregon was a "herder" of sorts. We had arms to control the ball but found that they were in the way most of the time so we didn't use them. But, dislodging the ball was our specialty and was very valuable throughout the matches. We were picked for an aliance by 2046 for the elimination rounds and made it to the finals (as a rookie team). so, running laps, dislodging the ball, herding, and playing defense is a huge deal.

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

I believe 2041, Midwest winner, was also a hearder. They had a clean ball pick-up method, and a great strategy in QF4-1 to bring the other ball around the track so 1114 had two ball to score with, leading to a high score.

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

Team 1656 is a herder bot, with a method of knocking down the balls from the overpass. We'll be competing at Chesapeake this year.

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

team 2365 is a herder that can knock down trackballs we will be at AZ tomorrow

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

wow that is relieving

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

I think the problem with herding is that in many cases it is mathematically unwise to herd. If the ball is left on the overpass for the entire match, it gains 12 points, so to compensate for the 12 points that you likely loose by using the ball at all, you need to do 6+ herds.

This is of course operating under a number of assumptions. For one, it assumes the opposing alliance would not knock your ball down by the end of the match.

I remember one team during a practice match at SVR lost against nobody because they knocked down both of their color balls and made 2 laps. Because the 2 opposite color balls remained, they lost 24-4.

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

Herders shouldn't focus on herding. Knock the ball down if you can and lap. The biggest thing though, and few people have been working on it, defense! Knock the other teams ball around, you see 'em going in for it, give them a love tap so they have to get moving. Even if you don't knock down show us you can lap and block, then you will get picked.

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

Tell that to Rage 173 :D. They've put up more points with "2 and 2's" (herd+lap) than some hurdlers I've seen.

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

We could hurdle and knock down the ball in hybrid, but we did mostly laps/herding with our flippers and hybrid mode.

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

We are a herder with the ability to knock the ball down during autonomous and get four lines in hybrid. We placed 5th overall at LSR and won the Rookie All Star. We have improved our autonomous. Our average at LSR was nearly 26 points a round. We did not have the ability for knocking off balls very functional then. We have worked to improve it.n Our speed is 15 f/s as well.

We think a herding/defensive bot is beneficial to two hurdling bots. You have the ability to dislodge opponents balls as they try to control them as well as move balls into position for hurdlers and then zoom around to get more laps and points.

Good luck to fellow hurder and lap bots.

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

1629 is helping 2614 this year (they are a rookie) and they designed a quick herder and ending up winning pittsburgh. Now they are joining us in Atlanta

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

I have to second that. I just prescouted them and was very impressed. I didn't think a herder had much of a chance getting selected for eliminations before I watched some of their matches. A very good hybrid paired with good knock off and solid driving make them a very valuable partner in an alliance with 2 hurdlers (or any alliance for that matter).

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

There were a ton of Herders in NYC. More than any of the 3 other regionals I went to and saw this year.

Some teams just decide to take on the sure thing part of the game, than challenge themselves to go big.

It's all about what you want to do in the game. Nothing wrong with that. :)

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

IMO,
herding the ball will have the same/similar impact as scoring 1 point balls in the corner goals of Aim High 2006, generally speaking.
Wont go into details but you get the drift. Lets remember that this is championships, where there will be a greater no. of offensive scoring robots than regionals in general, especially during the elimination matches.

Order of importance from what I've observed this season due to strategies, points awarded, and how many matches were won.
1. Hurdling
2. Hybrid
3. Placing balls
4. Laps
5. Knocking balls down. (ranked lower because you dont always have to do it).
6. Herding

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

Herding seems unimportant in this game, that is until you have a tie or a match decided by just a few points!

Effective herders require superb maneuverability to control the balls while zooming around the track. Good driving is important, to say the least.

Herding robots can also play effective defense and are a good partner for an alliance with two good hurdlers. Herding a ball to a good hurdler is not a bad strategy.

Your not the only herder, we're just a quiet (and perhaps a bit under-appreciated) group!:P

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

Which means we should see at least one robot in the Einstein Finals doing it ;)

Re: Are we the only Hearder in this game?
 

1699 run laps and herds and has a secret new weapon that will be shown..... soon.... and we get laps in no one cares about you but you get a good 20 to 30 point that could win a game!!!