Re: New FTC Platform
 

Well I'm guessing the kits that were given out for testing were the same idea. Just test kits, they weren't gonna be accurate and probably were going to go through adjustments.

So anyone have an idea of a release date. I would say take two months and adjust the metal to meet the complaints.

Re: New FTC Platform
 

release date: i think you can buy it in June for delivery in August.

Re: New FTC Platform
 

When I read this it makes me want to share one more thought with CD readers:

This train has already left the station (long ago). Short of an absolutely miraculous event, or a truely monumental disaster striking; no amount of wishing, bemoaning, or recommending is going slow it down or back it up.

I think it would have been very wise to give the kit one full year beyond today to "bake in the public oven", or to have started the current process at least 6-9 months earlier. However, it didn't happen and it ain't going to happen. Take today's new kit; add a little more development time to it and tweak the parts mix a bit; and then start mass producing it for the next Fall season. Aside from being able to distribute new software versions and patches fairly easily; things in the kit are not going to change much.

If you stopped by the FTC Showcase exhibit in Atlanta over the last couple of days (and have been keeping up with FIRST's announcments), I think that you now have a very good idea about what the new kits will be. Because of the logistics and lead times involved, I think that the Showcase wasn't an experiment to see if FIRST should use the the new kit or should radically revise it. Instead, I think that the Showcase exhibition was an unveiling of what the kit will be (give or take a tweak here or there).

The train is not pulling into the metaphiorical station; it is instead accelerating away from the station.

Blake

Re: New FTC Platform
 

The speculation is starting to get me annoyed. I think I might patiently wait for the final specs now.

I have a feeling that chiefdelphi is going to become a major resource for next year's FTC so everyone can help each other with the new platform

[oh no i'm speculating again...]

Re: New FTC Platform
 

First I'd like to say thanks to everyone that helped release the information of the new kit to us homesick FIRSTers. I missed the webcast due to school today and so I had to rely on the internetz, which did, indeed, help.

CONS:
Now, it looks like this new kit is a mixture of a) new kit metal, b) vEx metal, c) legos. It also appears that it is quite difficult to mate these 3 fabrication materials, which (as far as I can tell) appears to be one of the biggest issues with the kit. The next largest issue appears to be the software, but, fortunately, those issues can be resolved quite calmly over the next 3-4 months. Unless I've forgotten something big (which is entirely possible at this hour in AZ), the rest of the "problems" are small and could be fixed easily.

As inferred above, I was not able to see the demo game so I cannot comment on the style of game for next year; we can only hope it stays the same or moves closer to FRC-style play.

PROS:
As far as I can tell, the new metal is light and strong, as are the motors, which allows users to easily create powerful, robust arm joints and mechanisms. Big pro, as it is quite... how do I say this... not difficult, but time consuming with the vEx system. Another feature would be the increased possibilities with the number of different systems now available. You could, in practice, create a vEx robot with the new controller system. Or you could change it up (quite a bit, actually) with legos or the new system. It was stated in a previous post that the legos were "too small," but this is one great feature of the addition of Legos to the kit; you can create smaller, more flexible mechanisms with Legos that you simply just can't with vEx or the new metal. And finally, the biggest pro of them all: you get the entire new kit, all 11 motors, 10 sensors, 3 programming environments, and all the hardware, for only $450 (returning or one of 250 rookies, meaning mostly everyone). vEx would cost a bit more for the same quality and quantity of parts.

So it looks to me that this kit is promising if we take the time to move forward with it and not backward. Like gblake said, the train has left the station; let's not be left behind. There are great resources abroad along with great minds, and I'm sure we can make this new kit a worthwhile investment of money and time.

Re: New FTC Platform
 

theroboticsuniverse.com has made a new forum dedicated to FTC, some people found that CD was mainly around FRC and now that we dont have Vex Forum we're heading over to -> ftc.theroboticsuniverse.com

Re: New FTC Platform
 

Thanks for the info, that's one more site for my bookmarks.

Re: New FTC Platform
 

I don't think that I have seen anyone post a breakdown of what is meant by "11 motors"

4 Hitechniic +/-90 Deg Servos ( I think they came from HiTechnic, but I'm not sure, the kit rode home in a different car than I did)
4 Beefy motors (presumably for wheels, but not necessarily)
3 Lego motors.

Describing these as 11 motors, is something of an oversimplification. Each of the types listed above is significantly different from the others.

Blake

Re: New FTC Platform
 

Thanks for that motor break down Blake, I had been wondering about that.

All I can say is that I'm not ecstatic about this new kit. I like the new communication protocol, bluetooth it's better than RF it least. I like having some stronger motors. However everything else about the kit makes me dislike it. Especially when IFI is fixing at least the RF problem by going Wifi. However as blake pointed out it's too late now. We are going to have to make the best of it.

Re: New FTC Platform
 

That's a pretty good variety. I'm liking the new kit because it offers teams a wider selection than the Vex kit. Instead of having to slow down a mechanism or add more motors, one can use just one or two powerful motors, but if it doesn't need to do much you can use a Lego motor. The hardware is sounding really nice too, Legos have limitless possibilities and with the strong metal in this kit as well there will be a lot of variety.

Re: New FTC Platform
 

Is there any knowledge if we can use our own lego sets because I have a couple of spybots and i know my school has an unused mindstorms set.

Re: New FTC Platform
 

I know this is the new FTC platform thread, but after seeing the new NI FRC platform in Atlanta, I must start by stating I'm very impressive. Nice job FIRST.

However, after seeing the new FTC "kit" in action in Atlanta, my first reaction was...
For a kit that was billed as "not a toy", there's more toy than the last platform (or at least more than I expected). :confused:

The metal portions and new drive motors and gears just make the plastic bits look silly. The metal is nice but overkill as stated elsewhere. A robot that's going to weigh in at 10-15 pounds doesn't need structural members that will handle 50 pounds.

We haven't seen the new robot rules yet, so it's hard to tell just exactly how good this new kit will be. I hope that fabrication is allowed so that many of the plastic bits can be non-functional decoration. COTS will be an interesting subject to see as well. It's seems clear with the 0.625" spacing on the new metal, that every effort is being made to ensure that Vex hardware will not be an easy COTS solution. This is neither good nor bad, merely an observation.

The subject of COTS hasn't been touched on much yet. If it is allowed great. If not, design just got harder again. No metal bevel gears or rack gears, no heavy duty linear bearings, and as much as teams loved to complain about the weak Vex chain, almost every team used it including last year's Champion Simbotics machine. Currently, it appears that design potential has gone down, not even stayed the same.

The issue of sensors is still up for grabs. It appears that there will be a good selection, but ease of integration will need to be seen. Also quantities that can be used will be important too. In three short years, I believe many FTC robots have matched their bigger FRC brethren in autonomous complexity.

While its nice to see a variety in the motor arsenal, I don't think it's as versatile as previously posted. The new bigger motors are nice, the LEGO motors are interesting, but the servos are not a good choice. Having been a FTC robot inspector at the Championships the last two years, I think I've seen less than ten machines that used any servos. My own team rarely if ever chooses a servo as a solution to their needs. Perhaps two constant rotation and two 180 degree servos would have been a better choice, but I think four constant rotation servo motors with the option to substitute standard servos on a one for one basis would have been a better choice.

Lastly, the controller. The NXT is a capable controller and it should make the transition from FLL to FTC easier. However, FIRST has always said that they expected FTC teams to move up to FRC, so I feel the choice of controllers hinders that. Again, after seeing the new FRC system, I'm saddened that a lower cost version of that platform couldn't be assembled for FTC. The power distribution panel could have incorporated the two battery inputs and main breaker, circuit breaker outputs for the "beefy" motors, and power output to the controller. The controller wouldn't need eight slots for various input and output modules, just two. One for PWM and relay outputs, and one digital/analog input. A smaller wifi modem could be adopted for FTC or perhaps one of the Zigbee wireless solutions. The driver station could just have two usb ports for game controllers and no dashboard LCD display.

The NI IDE should make for a smooth transition from any of the programs. Although, I'd still prefer to see multiple programming environments for different levels of skill.

These are just my own first observations of the new platform. It's hard to clearly rate the new platform since it's not being viewed in context with the new rules. If this is a "kit system" along the lines of the old platform, its not as versatile, integrated, or useful. However, if this is more along the lines of a KOP with options for COTS and more fabrication, then it's a first step but far from complete.

I only wish that FIRST would put as much effort into FTC as they do into FRC. For the future of FIRST, all the programs are important.

Re: New FTC Platform
 

Every now and then I have to post something postive, just so that folks can't say that I'm always crabby.;) This is one of those times.

I perfectly understand and agree with what Skimoose said about the Vex kits and their servos. Because they don't have enough strength to hold up much of the Vex steel, they gather dust in my boxes of parts.

However, for me, the strong servos and light aluminum tubing were one of the bright spots in the new FTC KOP. To get a sense of what I mean, take a look at the various walking robots on the LynxMotion site; especially the one that looks like a walking stick insect. With the new servos, servo mounts, and the tubes it is very easy to make a long, multi-jointed arm that can do useful things (not lift 10 pound weights, but reasonably useful things).

Otherwise, I think your assessments of the new kit are reasonable. Some would debate them; but they certainly aren't out to lunch.

Blake

Re: New FTC Platform
 

I think this is one of the biggest issues that has not been addressed. What are the rules going to be? In the state of Pennsylvania all seniors are required to do a senior project that culminates with a presentation that is judged by a panel high school teachers. If FIRST was doing the FTC transition as their senior project they would fail! They do not to seem have answer for obvious questions that would arise from the panel. As I would tell the seniors who fail, you have had all year and this is all that you have. FIRST chose to do this project, it should be better done or at least more thought out in the areas that they control, specifically the rules.

I have another question and I am not sure if it has been answered, but will I have to buy the $900($450 if I buy now) kit every year? One of my attractions to FTC/FVC was the reuse of materials. This year my budget consisted mostly of registration fees, with about only $200 for robot materials. Stating that I still spent over $1000 dollars this year. This would drive me away from FTC.

Re: New FTC Platform
 

I apologize if this was announced elsewhere, but from a quick reading of this thread I didn't see an answer. Is it possible to interface non-Lego sensors with the NXT controller? Will it be legal to do so (although I doubt anyone knows this answer yet)?
I have very mixed feelings towards Lego NXT sensors from my experience with them, particularly the ultrasonic and light sensors. The more expensive HiTechnic NXT sensors may or may not be more reliable, but I have no experience with them.