Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

I think it was the referee training they mentioned?

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

No replay.

I was in the very front row for this match. My two cents says it was a bad call. <G14> specifically says a trackball "supported at least partially by the OVERPASS and not in contact with any ROBOT of the same ALLIANCE" gets the 12 points. Thus the blue trackball scored, and thus wins the match, regardless of the <G42> call called on them (I believe this was also diputed). This happened during one of our qualification matches (Team #2473) and we got points for the ball.

That said, decisions by personnel, good or bad, are a part of any sport, and ahould be taken as such. The vounteer crew did they best job they could, and tried their best to give everyone a fair show. My hat's off to them.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

I voted unddecided based on things I mentioned in another post. From what I saw, the 3rd match never should have been an issue because the red alliance should have won the 2nd match. I thought red won matches 1 and 2, and thought blue should have won 3. Very strange. I think the wrong alliance won matches 2 and 3, but that the right alliance won in the end. But based on everything that happened, and that the 6 teams couldn't control any of it - seems FIRST should do what they do in the olympics sometimes - why not give all 6 teams a "gold"? I'm sure all 6 feel they won the event, and I can't blame any of them.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

The replay was the fairest action the refs could have taken.

This may be the most unfortunate situation of FIRST this year, but that doesn't mean we treat this as the most disgusting thing to happen in a competition. Is it the refs fault? Maybe. But don't give them crap because they don't deserve it. All we can ask for is the situation be remembered as another FIRST lerning experiance and not something against FIRST or it's volunteers.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

Paid refs - perhaps that's what we need. People whose job is just to study the rules and prepare for these events.

One thing puzzles me about a rematch - what if the exact same thing happened in the rematch? People say it was scored incorrectly throughout SVR so they couldn't change for the contested match. If the same thing happened in the rematch, what would have been done then? Do you continue to be consistent or change to be right?

Again, tough job and I don't envy the refs or the RD. Nobody will ever be fully satisfied one way or another.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

To all:

A counterarguement. This is what happens even when the referees are paid, there's instant replay, and the game rules don't change year to year. This was the final goal in the final game of the Stanley Cup Finals.

And as another question - what would you have wanted them to do? Pick up all of the confetti and tell the Stanley Cup Champs that they don't deserve the Stanley Cup because the ref made a mistake? As far as I know, it takes 4 games to win the Stanley Cup, and it takes 2 wins to win a Robotics Competition. So if you couldn't win the first two games, and you couldn't win the 3rd game by large enough of a margin to overcome a bad call, how much do you really have the arguement that you were cheated?

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

As the lead team for the blue alliance we'd like to thank our two alliance partners team 8 and 192. I don't think you've ever seen a more spirited alliance at any regional. I have to keep telling myself how this is just a game and that our kids are the real winners having gone through the process.
In regards to the game however, the match 3 error was a scoring error that had no impact on the game itself, only on the final score. When we were told we lost we did what we were supposed to do and showed the head ref the rule book. He said he agreed with us that they scored it wrong. It wasn't a tie so I still don't know why we had to replay the game. We either won or lost...because of the tally error we won. Why they couldn't just reannounce they had made an error in the scoring and change who won I'd like someone to explain? Again, the error had nothing to do with the match, only the final score tally. In any case we had a great time in SVR and were very proud of our team and alliance partners! No regrets or hard feelings, after all it is a game....On to Honolulu....

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

I would first like to agree that there is nowhere to point the finger. The opposite alliance did nothing to cause this mess, except by playing the best game they could. The referees obviously did the best they could, provided the heat of the moment, and their best understanding of the rules.

I would like to address the argument of the fourth match, however. I was previously unaware the referees have been making that poor call for all of the qualifying rounds. It is the referees job to do the best job they can at calling penalties and tallying points. If a poor call has been made, it is THE TEAM's responsibility to bring it to the judges. I feel it was the judges lack of acknowledging this responsibility that made them feel obligated to seek another match. If they had been making this poor call all day, it was the affected team's responsibility to bring it to the attention of the refs and it was the refs responsibility to change it then. The same applies to the finals.

I believe if teams had brought this fault in point tallying to the attention of the referees on Friday or Saturday morning, they would have corrected their incorrect method of scoring (not counting the trackball while supported by the opposite alliance) earlier on in the competition, and this entire situation would be avoided.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

At first I was quite angry about what the Refs decesion was. I really thought that they should have just gave blue the win. But if they did that wouldn't the people who wanted the red to win just say "oh well they just know that if they did it again red would win." From seeing that the blue won the second match we all know that they had a chance to win the regional. I think now that was the refs did was the most fair and right thing they could have done in that situation. And Congrulations to 2024 on your award you get to go to Atlanta now. Hoping to see you guys around there, the drive team seemed mad cool.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

After watching all 4 matches I must say that match 4 SHOULD have taken place. The referees were not doing a very good job even in match 2, where they missed 2 pretty obvious calls. If we wanna look back at that, then the red alliance would have won in the 2nd match, and a 3rd and even more controversial match wouldnt have occurred.

Congratulations again to the red alliance for winning the regional. To the blue alliance teams, a very hard fought battle indeed, unfortunately poor officiating seems to be an unwanted theme developing in FIRST.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

Every MC says during opening ceremonies on Friday, "there will be no replays." I suspect that the reason this is part of the script is because it is an important tenet of how the game is intended to be played.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

Joey, really? Is it on any official FIRST document that is given to the MCs?

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

I have been told that it is part of the script that the MCs are given. I have heard this phrase spoken immediately after the referees are introduced at Midwest, Finger Lakes, and Pittsburgh this year.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

Thanks. That's good to know.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

I've heard it, myself, over my years in FIRST, but there is also precedent for replays in both past seasons as well as the rules. Basically, I think that when the MCs say this it's meaning that there won't be "do overs" for things that aren't explicitly outlined in the rules of each competition (field malfunction, referee having a stroke, etc). Meaning that a team not being ready for a match because they haven't had enough time to strategize or because a driver had to go to the bathroom or hasn't gotten back from Wendy's doesn't count as a "do overable" event.