Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

As I posted earlier, and as noted in the other thread about SVR, teams DID notify the refs of this error. I know for a fact that 100 and 254 did during the elimination rounds prior to the finals, and other teams did also. The referees should have been well aware of this issue before it came up.

P.S. I think people are forgetting that Red was actually announced the winner of the event, and then the referees went back and decided to change their minds. It wasn't like they deliberated prior to announcing the score and then changed their minds. This seems like a major departure from standard operating procedure. If there was any question that the match was not being scored correctly, it absolutely needed to be rectified prior to announcing a score. Nobody wants to win by a referee error, but how would it feel to be awarded the win, and then have it taken away?

The refereeing was highly inconsistent all weekend. This was not a problem that originated in the final matches.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

But how are we to know how the match is being scored until it is announced? We saw the referees deliberating, and expected them to make the right call. Once we found out they made the wrong call, we brought up the rules, and argued that their ruling was incorrect. I don't think we could have reasonably approached the referees any earlier.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

As I posted in the other thread...

Here's a link to Finals Match 3 with both matches and commentary by refs as it was shown on the webcast...

http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/joman...SVR2008FM3.wmv Thanks for the mirror, Joman!!

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

...They did their best job, and still failed, and still screwed over both alliances.

...So wait, we're not supposed to "give them crap?" How about politely pointing out the blunt and absolute failure of the refs over the entire event? It's not "giving them crap," it's stating plain and observable fact.

No replay. In fact, no match 3. It should have ended after match 2.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

Agreed. We all understand that they are volunteers, but that doesn't grant them immunity from criticism for doing a halfassed job on a competition that many teams have invested over 5-10,000 dollars on each!

-morpheous




.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

Referees and umpires are a key element of sports, and have probably the toughest job in all of sport. If they do their job well, they are hardly ever noticed, but if they are anything less than perfect their errors can have a massive effect on the outcome of a game and be remembered forever. Consider, for instance, The Hand of God goal.

Therefore it behooves a team that wishes to be a champion to provide a sufficient margin of victory such that the officials' decisions -- whether correct or not -- are not the deciding factor. Although unfortunate, human error, by players and referees is an element of sport, and when one commits to playing the game one does so knowing that there is the possibility of a call being missed, or an incorrect call being made.

If one does not like this fact, one should not engage in competitive sport.

This is not to say that bad calls should not be noticed, or cannot be commented upon, merely that they are to be expected, no matter how much effort goes into trying to minimize the number that occur.

In sort, congratulations to the champions, who dealt with the refereeing and overcame the challenges it presented... even though it was not their choice to win this way, they managed to win... and condolences to the finalists who didn't want to lose this way.

Most of all, however, condolences to the refs and tournament organizers who did their best to provide a fair and fun competition, and probably feel much worse about this situation than even the teams involved do. It's not like they were trying to screw up... they just did. It happens.

So my vote is YES, there should have been a match if that is what the refs and tournament organizers felt was fair. Not the call I would have made, perhaps, but I wasn't there. It is up to the teams to suck it up and deal with the officiating, so long as it is not intentionally biased. As for the multiple gold medals idea in the olympics, I believe that has only happened in events where the judging has been shown to be intentionally biased.

Jason

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

Right... I've always assumed that the MCs are really talking about any situations where "do overs" are not explicitly allowed by <T16>. That's why I'm surprised about all this.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

Let me preface this with the fact that I don't have a personal opinion on this issue.

There was a fairly reasonable argument made at some point in the SVR thread that a field personnel malfunction which is apparently part of T16 or another rule that talks about "do over" matches (admittedly, it has been 2 years since I've been involved in FIRST to the extent that I've memorized the rules) could also be extended to cover referee brain-farts.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

I agree with your final sentence, and your first paragraph there just exclaims it. I trust you when you say that you notified them of their error. Why does it take us notifying them after the final round in order to get them to listen? If that is the case, shouldn't that ball have been scored for blue?

This mess is extremely frustrating and painful to us, and I'm sure you would feel the same if they reverted the call. I hope to hear something official from FIRST about what took place.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

Yes, that ball should have been scored for blue.

However, I think it's a moot point, as I believe there is a very reasonable argument for the case that there never even should have been a match 3.

Re: POLL ONLY. SVR F-3
 

Maybe you're right. I haven't watched the match videos, and truth be told, I remember very little of what happened before match 3. I got very much caught up in the excitement.

Regardless, there was a mistake by the referees somewhere, probably in many places in the process. I truly hope FIRST and everyone involved learns something significant from these events, so that by the time we get to Atlanta, and it's time to crown the World Champions, there is no doubt about what should or could have happened because of the refereeing, only because of the teams as they played on the field.