Scoring incorrect
 

After reading though cd I wanted to take a poll of teams that really did have there scores miscounted. I want to see if this is wide spread or just a few mishaps that are getting blown up.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

We've had some herded balls missed, and a couple of laps weren't counted. None of the instances affected the outcome of the matches, though.

EDIT: All the discrepancies we saw were early Friday morning; as far as we're concerned, scoring was correct Friday afternoon and Saturday.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

There's an underlying assumption in this poll that the teams' scoring is correct and that of the referees is incorrect. I would challenge this hypothesis. There have obviously been referee mistakes in scoring, but that is far different than making a (hidden) assumption that the teams always understand what their true score should have been and that the refs don't.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

I wholeheartedly agree with you as pertains to hurdling or herding. There may be instances where a hurdle touched an alliance robot before the floor, or the robot was touching the trackball as it passed the finish line. However, laps are completely objective. When a team sees its robot complete 4 or 5 laps, and the lapscore shows 0, there's no question that there is a discrepancy.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

Indeed. I saw a match at the Boilermaker regional where one robot consistently put a trackball across the overpass on each lap, but about half the time the driver moved forward too soon and re-contacted the ball before it hit the floor. The spoiled hurdles were correctly not counted, but I wouldn't be surprised if many people didn't realize the team's mistake and thought it was a scoring error.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

1986's match that was scored incorrectly happened to be in the 3rd match of the semi's at Kansas City. We had consistantly be getting 8 laps and that match we got 4. We also lost by 8 points. The bad part was that we didn't figure this out until Sunday evening after watching the match. We watched it and counted at least 8 laps but the final score only said 4. This was extremely depressing and that small error knocked us out of the competition.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

I know in New Jersey, Team 102 had a few matches where they went around about 2-3 more times than counted. Sure, it got on our nerves, but there was nothing we could really do about it. I aint so sure about the whole flag bit being the thing that counts - because if it comes disconnected, you're outa luck

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

We did indeed have a match put up on the scoreboard with an incorrect score at one regional and the members of my team were highly upset because it was a critical match. After the regional was over, however, I made them watch the replay and count the scoring for BOTH alliances. At this point, they saw that the other team's score was not reported correctly either and they had still beaten our alliance. Most probably, the mistake was in not putting the FINAL score up on the screen correctly, not a fault of the referees.

I find that it helps to remind my team that the real reason they are doing this is to learn and develop skills. The game and any mistakes that can be made will never be able to negate what they have gained by working with the mentors. The game is supposed to be fun!:D

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

This was brought up on the 2008 Florida Regional thread.

To summarize, view the drastic change in score at 1:50 for Finals Match 1 at the Florida Regional.

I am more interested in the reason for the large discrepancy of the score during matches. I know that I do not want to win nor lose because of a miss-score. I just want to know what really happened.

At Florida, I do know that a couple of matches were re-played during qualifying because of a miss-score, but I don't want this to be a prevalent thing especially with the large number of teams at Championships.

There isn't much control over the score and I hope this issue is addressed before championships. If not, it would be a shame to encourage a teammate to keep an eye on the scoreboard instead of the field enjoying the game.

May I suggest putting one ref to each robot since there is so much going on during a match?

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

It's just about impossible for a Scorekeeper to display the wrong score. The scorekeeper doesn't enter laps or hurdles, they are done automatically based on counters and the data entry pads held by the referees. The only time the scorekeeper actually changes the scoring is by entering the number of penalties and G14 bonus scores at the end of the match, or by entering corrections to the lap scores (which the refs give to the scorekeeper). In this year's game, there is no scoring actually done by the scorekeepers. So, "putting the final score up" incorrectly can only be done if the scorekeepers don't wait for adjustments from the referees before pushing the "commit score" button. This would only happen once! Not to be a "blame them" kind of person, but in "Overdrive" any scoring mistakes would most likely be with the refs or the electronics, since the scorekeepers would have to really, really try to display any score other than what the refs intended.

Rick "Trained scorekeeper" TYler

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

The scoring and reffing is worst this year than ever before

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

The only reason that is, is because this game is more difficult to score.

Last year, the points were totaled at the end of the game without any problems. They would look at the rack, and if robots were on ramps.

This year, the only thing to look at when the match ends is if there is a bonus. The laps must be counted constantly along with hurdles and herding, plus there are many more fouls this year than in years past.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

Pretty strong statement from a new poster with two weeks' background on Delphi...

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

That says nothing about their experiences in FIRST though. There are mentors in FIRST who never post or read CD and I would listen to them any day over most people on CD.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

At BAE we had two matches misscored. In a qualifying match, we placed a trackball on top of our overpass, which then got knocked forward and off the rails by an opponent. This *should* have been scored as a hurdle, but was not scored at all. We lost the match by fewer than 8 points, so this misscored hurdle was the deciding factor. This was also not the only time we saw this happen at BAE - one side's refs were consistently not scoring hurdles in this kind of situation on Friday. They did improve, and correctly scored such matches on Saturday.

We also had one match - a semifinal - where the autonomous score was not scored correctly. There was a 2 minute delay while the referees adjusted the score, and I'm still not sure if it ever got corrected properly.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

Yep. It's just that this particular post didn't sound like a wise old mentor making a sagacious comment. It sounded like an irritated teenager. I freely admit that I might be wrong, &c.

Bitterly complaining about scoring and officiating is a perennial feature of CD, at least in the four seasons I've been reading it. Remember the near-hysterical criticism of scoring mistakes and 30-point penalties in 2005? I need to go dig up some quotes from those old threads to help people put Overdrive in perspective.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

I had to watch it a few times to see what was happening. Swamp drops a ball, and it rolls across the line. The ref pushed the wrong button and scored it as a hurdle. After everyone is over in the corner, the ref corrected the score, taking away 8 points (and presumably adding 2, although you can't tell because robots were crossing the line at the same time). Then unfortunately another hurdle is removed by mistake.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

I think I misunderstood the poll. We had two quarter finals where the penalties were deducted from the wrong alliance causing the offending alliance to be reported as the winner of the round. Both scores were then corrected.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

This was covered in the Florida regional thread. The hurdle before the one that was dropped also did not count because 179 touched the ball before it touched the ground. It just did not get corrected until later.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

I don't believe our team was in any misscored matches. However, we also were getting fairly high scores, so none of us were really that worried about watching exactly how many points we obtained. The drivers would ask how many hurdles they got, and I would answer "a lot".

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

I have to say that I never saw a match miscalculated (or at least where a team lost dramatically because of it)

I will warn teams to be careful when they attach the flags to their robots. At Peachtree we were warned several times to attach our flags correctly (black wire to black wire) or else suffer the consequences of laps that didn't count.

BIG KUDOS to the crew down at Peachtree because even with the weather, the problems, and the complicated scoring, all of the volunteers did an awesome job reffing and judging. I seriously thought it was a well-run regional.

On another note, I would advise teams to assign a member of their group to calculate the number of hurdles, lines crossed, and balls pushed in the match to calculate the score (at least a guesstimate!) As the RoboCoach when the hybrid mode is over I personally keep track of how much our team does as well as penalties. While I didn't catch everything, it was still pretty obvious who won or at least where our score ended up.

Good Luck guys!!!

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

Why don't we get instant replay? Just make a video for people to refer to when they think something is wrong. Have one ref who is there just to review the footage with teams that would like to challenge the score. We have the technology to do this and it wouldn't be that hard to work out. As long as we limited each team to 1 challenge or something it would not be too time consuming.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

I think the finals 3 match of svr was probably misscored.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

If that is so, how come our alliance's score before it was corrected in our first qualification match was odd? One note: SVR did not use the IR lap counters and was counting all laps by hand, and the scorekeeper requested to see the list of red laps again to correct the score. I'm sure the counting laps as one point each wasn't intentional by any party, so it is certainly possible for the scorekeeper to misscore a game (especially early on Friday).

Perhaps a good practice would be for all teams to pay extra attention to the score of their first match on Friday to help make the rest of the matches go smoothly and correctly.

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

The scorekeeping software has a manual adjustment function, which allows the scorekeeper to enter a total manually. Sounds like the scorekeeper made a mistake. (Please, Lord, don't let it be me next time...)

Re: Scoring incorrect
 

Ah. I was curious as to how that worked. Scorekeeping must be one horrible job - no one even thinks of it unless something goes horribly wrong, at which point everyone is angry (of which I've certainly been guilty). Good luck with your scoring and thanks for volunteering in such an important position!