Re: 2009 Control System Possibility?
 

Python support would be *excellent*.

Re: 2009 Control System Possibility?
 

Why exactly would FIRST want to get rid of IFI? :confused: They donate many supplies to teams (which if bought individually, could cost more that a thousand dollars), and there is always an IFI representative at almost regional.

Re: 2009 Control System Possibility?
 

IFI doesn't do all of that for free, I'd imagine. They're likely contracted by FIRST to provide those services and, apparently, FIRST is unhappy with how that arrangement has been playing out.

Re: 2009 Control System Possibility?
 

In my opinion I think that next year is not going to be a fun one initially. I foresee alot of issues at the initial regionals with matches switching from Hybrid to Operator control. I would have much rather seen IFI come out with a new version of the control system. I hope that the new control system is very similar to the current one with new features. It's gonna suck If we have to buy new relays, speed, controllers and other control parts

Re: 2009 Control System Possibility?
 

I agree one of the best parts of being a veteran team is all the stockpiled parts we have that we can use for ourselves or helping other new teams near us.

Re: 2009 Control System Possibility?
 

There is ALWAYS a way to interface! Heck, I've used an IFI spike with an arduino successfully!

Re: 2009 Control System Possibility?
 

But if there's a new control system that doesn't explicitly depend on IFI components, there's absolutely no way we're going to be allowed to use them.

Re: 2009 Control System Possibility?
 

Why not. What is the problem with an open electronics platform. As I see it, that's a good thing!

There is a reason for industry standards, and as such, there are many ways to implement them. I think that that would be a HUGE stepping stone for FIRST

Re: 2009 Control System Possibility?
 

As long as the new control system can do native trig and floating point calculations, im fine :D

Re: 2009 Control System Possibility?
 

It is...until you're scrambling through the pits trying to find a Billfred Industries speed controller and the only spares you can find are GaryDill. In this particular case, standardization allows teams to help each other more quickly as there is a far shallower learning curve--your Victors should work the same way as ours, give or take a few quirks (brake/coast headers, motor wiring arrangement, etc.).

Re: 2009 Control System Possibility?
 

These are solid Facts:
As far as FTC goes, the control system is the exact NXT hardware possibly with a different firmware. sensor port 4 of the NXT can do I2C communications and an expansion I/O device will be connected to it.

These are my guesses:

For the Operator Interface, It is possible to use another NXT brick with a custom Firmware to let FIRST manage disabled, autonomous, and teleoperated states.
Or it can be a custom circuit made by FIRST.
As far as managing the game goes, the NXT brick can connect to multiple blue tooth devices, so it can directly connect to the field management system.


I highly doubt that the FRC controller will have anything to do with NXT
I have heard from various credible sources that FIRST is designing the Controller from scratch.
I doubt that the communications will be at 2.4 GHz since a chances of interference would be high, and also Blue tooth is not reliable enough.

Re: 2009 Control System Possibility?
 

Wow... I'm totally blown away that IFI and FIRST are parting ways after this many years... If thats the case, then I'm way off base, and I might not be a very happy camper next year. If we're moving away from an All-IFI setup, I hope they go all open electronics, outside of the RC. Basically the same rules as now, but you can use any speed controllers/relays (IFI or otherwise) that you want, and they MUST be fed from the ports given to us. (under control of a master CPU so they could still disable us.)

Otherwise, you're going to have a TON of veteran teams with YEARS of stockpiled Spikes/Victors that would now be totally useless. This is part of how we've collected so many spares, is by being a 5th year team.

Never mind that theres likely to be growing pains, stemming from trying to change what is tried, tested and true. Namely, all the field control setup.

Re: 2009 Control System Possibility?
 

As it seems to be open season on speculation, let me add what my secret agents are telling me: National Instruments (of LabView fame) has a platform called CompactRIO, which is used for industrial controls. It's modular, durable, and quite expensive. Controller units consist of a smart backplane and a stack of interchangeable modules. When my agents were down in Texas, interviewing for NI, they were openly describing this system as the new FRC platform. Whether that means they've submitted a bid, and expect to win, or they've already been chosen, I don't know. But I doubt a potential employer would be feeding my agents disinformation....

Also, recall there was a bit of a slip-up a few months ago, regarding these very same units, where an NI representative announced, then retracted an unofficial statement about these systems, when he was talking to an FRC audience.

Anyway, my money is on cRIO, for next year. Hopefully it's ready in time, if that's what FIRST wants to use.

Re: 2009 Control System Possibility?
 

I've done a little bit of work with cRIO based systems. I'll be interested to see how NI would turn that into an FRC control system. It would be really easy to design a visual block-based programming system with LabView, though...

Re: 2009 Control System Possibility?
 

I have absolutely no "inside info", but the NI cRIO solution makes so much sense, and boy is this thing sweet!

Now it makes sense why NI included the full-license version of LabView in the KOP this year. They weren't just hoping you would use it for the Dashboard and Robot Modeling Kit - they were prepping us for the future!

And, if they were to provide these units, it would be a pretty good bet that FIRST students going out into industry would take this "industry-ready" NI technology right along with them.