Re: Denying an Alliance Selection
 

a team declined a pick this year at san diego. i believe 701 declined but i forgot who they declined to

Re: Denying an Alliance Selection
 

I'm shocked by some of the responses saying 'It's unpleasant, get it over with', 'it hurts feelings', or 'it's not the right thing to do'.

Having 'emcee'd' the alliance selection for multiple events on both the FRC and FTC side, I've found that simply explaining the rules to the group of kids beforehand and letting them know that they have EARNED THE RIGHT to decline if they are in the Top 8 teams is completely effective.

I have only had an issue once, at an FTC Tournament, and the team later admitted that they hadn't read the rules nor attended the mandatory meeting. Once we took them aside and explained, they realized they had made a mistake and the representative apologized to his team. No booing, no hard feelings - he manned up and explained, and his team respected him for it.

Just like there's no crying in baseball, there's no booing in FIRST. I'm very surprised when I go to competitions and hear that people are booed for strategically declining a pick. That's not fair to either team - you're embarrassing both team representatives by doing that and making the situation perpetually more awkward.

In the past, my team and I were booed by another team for a legal maneuver on practice day. I still remember the team, and I'm still hurt by it. I can remember every time I've sat in the stands and heard a team boo and yell against another team - and I certainly remember who those teams are. When myself and our scouts are working on our pick list, we certainly take into account other teams' behaviors on where we rank them. We don't want our drive team working with ungracious or immature competitors.

Bottom line: You need to be mature enough to realize that not everyone is going to want to partner with you and that teams may have a strategy that may not be aligned with yours. Doing this is not ungracious. This is a competition. We compete.

Re: Denying an Alliance Selection
 

Jim Beck countered two boos at L.A. (a top 8 team declined, then another top 8 declined the same team) with "Don't boo him, give him HELP! Shout out some numbers!" There was an immediate deafening chorus of team numbers from all over the arena. And there was no more booing.

Re: Denying an Alliance Selection
 

This is why Jim is one of my favorites ever.

Edit: Btw, that decline was from a rookie team who went on to make 2 of the best picks I've seen in a long time and led their alliance into the finals. If you can't work together with someone, no wrong in declining.

Re: Denying an Alliance Selection
 

I saw a team decline at the Buckeye this year. What happened was some of the teams in the top eight picked other teams in the top eight, which caused lower-seeded teams to move up. The team that ended up in the seventh spot (250?) seemed like they had not planned this out (which is reasonable, since I think they were the eleventh-highest seeded team) and tried to pick the team in the eighth spot (1001?), who declined. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me, since 1001 probably already had others in mind, and they were going to be in the elimination rounds anyway.

Re: Denying an Alliance Selection
 

I think you mean 120 trying to pick 250 after canvasing the crowd by asking who wants to be picked.

Re: Denying an Alliance Selection
 

At the few regionals i've seen, i think in about 80% of them i've seen denying, more than once.

Just a bit ago in GLR08 there was 3 denys from the top seed
in DTR08 there was one too

In DTR07 there was a huge number of denies as well, with nearly every team denying first seed.
as i recall, 47 took advantage of the serpentine draft as well in that picking when they declined the #7, (as position 8) so that they could pick 2 robots quickly and in their favor

Re: Denying an Alliance Selection
 

A team declined at FLR this year.

Re: Denying an Alliance Selection
 

A couple of teams declined in Peachtree. I believe the number seven alliance was given an offer by number 5 and they refused. or sorry, number seven seed.

Re: Denying an Alliance Selection
 

I don't know...just because you are ALLOWED to deny a selection, it doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do.

I personally would never deny a selection unless our robot was having problems. But that is a decision that each team must make for themselves.

Usually, our team will go to the various other top 8 teams and ask them beforehand whether or not they will pick us, or if they will accept if we pick them. This way you can avoid a little bit of the embarrassment that always comes with declining a pick.

Re: Denying an Alliance Selection
 

Yeah… Just had the numbers wrong, that's all.

The point is that 250 was already in, so they didn't need to be picked to participate.

Re: Denying an Alliance Selection
 

Wow, I wasn't expecting this much of a response. Thanks a lot everyone for the answers, it does make sense now, just never saw it in action. This year we didn't have to worry about it, being the 3rd and 1st alliances, respectively. I'll keep this in mind for the future, though, especially since we're considering heading down for the Championship next year.

Re: Denying an Alliance Selection
 

At the Seattle regional, we were seeded 3rd. We were good friends with the first seed and knew they wanted to pick us. As many know, the Seattle regional was quite scarce on competent hurdlers, but with our scouting data we knew that we would play much better with a lower ranked hurdler and a sleeper lapper/hybrid that we had our eye on. Before the pickings we told the #1 seed that we would decline if the picked us. They were... disappointed, but we explained and I don't think there are any hard feelings. We ended up getting picked by the second alliance (a pure rabbit) and declined. We wanted to continue with our own plans. We ended up taking one of our highest hurdler picks (2046) and that sleeper (949), and going through the eliminations undefeated. We would have done just as well 488, but they ended up with the #2 alliance. It was a strategy decision for us, and it definitely worked out well in our situation. I, personally, feel much better about telling the #1 alliance ahead of time.

Re: Denying an Alliance Selection
 

Actually, 2 teams declined. #2 67 declined #1 1507's offer and new #8 1503 declined new #6 68's offer (I think). You don't see many declines that late. I was talking to 1503 in the pits near the field (but couldn't see the screen) and we were shocked. Then we realized they had moved into picking position and it made sense.

I don't think my team has ever declined but that doesn't mean we would not. Declining can be a difficult decision to make so it is important to talk over the when to decline and when to accept. Teams thinking about declining should make a list of more preferable partners and if a certain amount of those (based on difference in picking position) are available then decline.

Re: Denying an Alliance Selection
 

Correct, but you cannot just think of the first round. If your the 8th seed, you cannot think of it just as "is the 1st seed better than someone I can pick with the 8th pick?" Instead, you should think of it as "Is the 1st seed and 16 pick better than the 8th pick and 9th pick?" Depending on the depth of the regional and where (if any) are there major drop offs in teams, the second round could be the deciding factor.