Chief Delphi - We was robbed!!!

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- - We was robbed!!! (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66507)

Re: We was robbed!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kev (Post 729303)

Robbed is more like Team 614 suffering it's only defeat in regular play because of a field radio malfunction. And we didn't get a redo.

Robbed is more like the Blue Alliance in the Finals of SVR.

Re: We was robbed!!!

I am sorry to hear about this happening to you. I am also sorry to say I do not think you were robbed. I believe the refs did what they think was best.

Re: We was robbed!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nawaid Ladak (Post 729292)

......
i don't think we got robbbed, even though some may se it that way. It showed 1279's inncossistancy, of their grippers. .....

Unfortunately the replay was the first time our shooter failed (jammed due to battle scars, easily fixed) during either regional, and the first time that day our hybrid failed (trying to turn on the 1/2" plate)

Does anyone remember the score of the match that was replayed? We were told it was the 70-0 match, in which case hybrid or not, it would not have made a difference in the outcome.

And speaking for the entire team, as can be seen in the Bayou thread, 1279 does not feel robbed. A little disappointed perhaps, but thankful for the new friends and alliances we met at the Bayou regional. We hope to make it back to Bayou next year.

Re: We was robbed!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackthepumking (Post 729260)

In New Orleans at the bayou regional during the third consecutive match in the quarterfinals between the two alliances chosen by team 499 and Team 34 there was an alleged autonomous Malfunction with the red alliance, causing the refs to order a Redo on match on Match 2, in which The Blue Alliance totally Creamed the Red alliance. We then replayed the match as Match 4 (even though we had already thought we were moving on to the semifinals) and lost... Now, Are we the only ones out there in this known universe who think that The whole replay situation was a load of bull?
If anything the Refs could have stopped Match 2 right there and then when the Malfunction occurred, why wait until the END of MATCH 3?!?
BESIDES, even IF the red alliance DID score those autonomous Points they STILL wouldn't have came anywhere near winning the match!!

WE WAS ROBBED

Jack -
I think there was alot of confusion as to which match was replayed. Perhaps there still is. As I remember, the second match was 70-0, and the refs told the teams that the second match was being replayed. However, I think it was actually the third match that was replayed, as the 70-0 match results are posted, not the third match results.

Re: We was robbed!!!

Some officials told us that they were replaying the third match because of what happened in the second match. We were on the red alliance. They said they could not replay the second match because they already put the scores up already. hope that clears up any confusion. And in the final 2 matches of the quarter-finals we were told to start hurdling, before we were playing a more defensive strategy, and I like to believe that us hurdling help us a lot. But all three of the opposing alliance teams were a good match up against us. And hopefully we will be able to play against you or with you again next year.

Re: We was robbed!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackthepumking (Post 729260)

WE WAS ROBBED

Being robbed is someone taking your entire toolbox overnight. Being robbed is someone taking away your crate without the robot inside on a Friday. The next time you post with "WE WAS ROBBED", er, "WE WERE ROBBED, please keep in mind of what you post. A disagreement or questionable call doesn't mean you were robbed.

Re: We was robbed!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Sparks (Post 728743)

This match will haunt me forever ...........

The field ran so well all weekend. I was helping IFI out at the Bayou regional because with 11 events going on, there were not enough IFI employees to go around. I had been baptized by fire at the now famous Peachtree regional and was praying all weekend that I would not have to go through anything like that again.

Then it happened .........

The #3 alliance never left the gate. I knew all 3 robots had an effective hybrid mode and was surprised it wasn't used (so I thought). After the match was finished, I was immediately confronted by team members and field personnel as to why the hybrid mode didn't run right. The equipment I was monitoring does not log the history of the autonomous or disable flags but it does keep stats about packet loss and drops. The data scanner confirmed that the radio link was good at that time. I also reported that none of the robots on Red left the wall. At that point I backed out of the conversation because, unfortunately, my team was involved and I felt it would be improper to say anything else. The alliance captain appealed to the head ref and she decided to re-play the match.

Each side of the field is controlled independently so it is possible that something like this could happen on one side only. The "Red" controller and "Blue" controller are connected to the common "Field" controller via Ethernet. The "Field" controller at the scoring table sends out commands to the zone controllers on each end. They process these signals and pass them to the IFI Arena controllers (3 on each end) which sends these signals via wireless radio links to & from your 'bot. There's a lot of stuff in those zone controllers that can go wrong but I can't tell you exactly what happened. IFI is only responsible for the radio links. We'll never know.

A similar thing happened at Peachtree except the Field controller lost its connection to the "Red" zone controller and nothing on Red would work. We wound up running the whole elimination tournament with six dongles.

You probably noticed that I decided to monitor the OI's the rest of the tournament to be sure every match had a full 15 second hybrid mode (thanks to the volunteers that helped me). That's why you saw six of us jump out of the end zones at the end of hybrid mode. We never saw this happen again.

It was weird ...... and I truly wished it never happened. :(

I was at the Bayou Regional and I was wondering what was happening and I found this answer on the Bayou Regional thread.

This may be unrelated but I also know that right after the match the the red autonomous failed two of the students from my alliance made a suggestion to the head ref that they should be rotating the refs across the field because, to us at least, it appeared that the refs on the different home stretches were using very different benchmarks for what interfering with a hurdling robot was. The head ref said that they would keep the arrangement how it was but he would be watching to see if there really were inconsistencies in the calls. After the third match of the series was played the head ref had a talk with both of the field refs charged with the responsibility of calling interference, and then another meeting with all the people sitting at all the monitors on the side of the course. After about 5-10 minutes of deliberation it was determined that match two was to be replayed because of (this might not be the exact quote) "an error on the field." After that the match was played and both refs called the correct rulings for the rest of the tournament.

Re: We was robbed!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torboticsmember (Post 729399)

Some officials told us that they were replaying the third match because of what happened in the second match. ........

So now I am really confused. What happened in the second match? If that is the one that was 70-0, hybrid or not, would not have changed the outcome.

Since I was not watching the opposing alliances, can anyone tell me in which match the hybrid did not run, and the score of the third match?

Re: We was robbed!!!

The Game is complex..... The electronics are complex.......then add complex robots that often have a mind of their own and do strange things at strange times, and you have with 41 regionals many opportunities for stuff to go wrong.

It is very easy to blame this or blame that.. it is easy to pop up video to "Prove" you were right and "They were wrong........ it is even harder to accept that this is only a celebration of all the hard work a team puts in or shall we say all the GREAT learning the students will enjoy for ever.....

Point is step back.... enjoy the accomplishments... enjoy the moment that many, many others cannot...

I know easy to say..... hard to do, but guys, really, we MUST!

Re: We was robbed!!!

Every regional has had it's problems. There have been hurdles that were not counted, laps that were not counted, missed penalties, wrong penalties and much more. The biggest question is: Is it more important that we win or that we have the opportunity to play?

FIRST is NOT perfect!!!! Refs are NOT perfect!!! Judges are NOT perfect!!!! Field controls are NOT perfect!!!! but most of all WE ARE NOT PERFECT!!!!

The best part of FIRST is when teams, win or lose, congratulate each other and then cheer for each other. This is a large lesson to learn but I guarantee that by the time you graduate from High School, you will have grown and understand what we are talking about.

Re: We was robbed!!!

The 2nd quarter final match was when the hybrid was not working. Third match it did work, but I can't remember the score of it.

Re: We was robbed!!!

Hey, calm down. You guys did great just making it through the seeding and selection matches. I know this sounds cheesey, but FIRST isn't about winning or losing, but making friends, learning, and having fun. Big deal, you lost. You made it past the seeding matched, and that is good enough. I know it can be hard to accept defeat, but sometimes you just have to just swallow your pride and sit in a corner quietly and think about things.

Re: We was robbed!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparxProgrammer (Post 729496)

Easy to say when your team wins something pretty much every year.

Re: We was robbed!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torboticsmember (Post 729462)

The 2nd quarter final match was when the hybrid was not working. Third match it did work, but I can't remember the score of it.

Can't be. Score was 70-0, and it is posted on First website.

Re: We was robbed!!!

People are human and they make mistakes. At that, Mr. Sparks already explained what happened in the Lone Star thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vivek16 (Post 729280)

Calm down. Winning is not everything. If your alliance truly was superior, you would have won the second match as well.

-Vivek

NO! I disagree completely. We both agree with the first part of your statement, but as for the second you are completely wrong. Call me crazy, but I believe in the butterfly effect. I believe that every insignificant move I make has some effect upon something else, etc, etc. That being said, it doesn't matter whether you had a superior alliance or not, it is the fact that you won THAT match in that point in time and that should have let you go on. Similar to the SVR controversy, it doesn't mean that they had the superior/inferior alliance, it just means that they lost.

As Murphy as my witness, things happen and will continue to happen. Even if team 0000 beat team 9999 in two matches consecutively it doesn't mean they are a 'superior' alliance. It just means they won two matches. ... Back to the butterfly effect. What if they won that match and went on the become regional champions? You can't say "if you were superior then you should have won" because stuff happens.

Pavan

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