Re: Where has the GP gone???
 

The robotic compeition is a sport while FIRST is an orginazation intended to reach a goal. Depending on which side you belive is more important will determine your definition of GP and how you show it.

Re: Where has the GP gone???
 

As always, I am impressed by all of the comments that the users on CD supply. I have to agree with Koko Ed as well. Last year yielded some very nasty comments by some members, especially after the finals in Curie. I too was affected by that match, and can remember all too well that i was screaming at my monitor as one of the top teams had their arm ripped off.

I understand and agree with D. Brinza's and J. Young's comments as well.
Like I said before, I know the amount of time and sweat that each team puts into their robot. For the first four years of our program, we struggled just to put a robot on the field, but always came away with the feeling that we had achieved the best that we could do, and that we could only improve ourselves for the next year.

I guess that its just the side of me that has always turned to look for the positive side in life that motivated me to post this thread.

another 2 cents....

Re: Where has the GP gone???
 

I myself am most impressed with the fact that this thread is only two pages long and already has 28 cents in it :D:D

Although I agree some posts have not been to nice, there have been some very wonderful posts on CD lately as well, congrats to other teams, wishing teams luck in atlanta, that sort of thing, as been going around a lot lately. So by the theory, that everything must be balanced (yin and yang) there must be negative posts to counter all the positive ones or the whole interweb would implode!:ahh:

Re: Where has the GP gone???
 

Posts this time of year reflect the perceived slights for awards, the near misses in eliminations, the mechanical and software frustrations, and the general lack of sleep that we all have gone through.

One of, if not my favorite, FIRST quotes is what Dave Beck (coach of 103) said to us a few years ago.

"Well, it beats work."

Next time you want to post something angry on Delphi, just remember that ;)

Re: Where has the GP gone???
 

Why are we still discussing this?

FIRST is not perfect, criticizing it _can_ be a worthwhile endeavor.

Stop whining. You didn't win. Big deal! I didn't either.

A French saying goes like this: "turn your tong seven times in your mouth before you open it". That is to say: when angry, shut your trap, more likely than not, nothing good can come out of it.

OMG GP not GP Woodie Zoom Zoom robot. GP is great, apply it to yourself. You have no right whatsoever to claim that such team is GP and such team isn't. Furthermore, GP is not a universal rule. You should help teams achieve it, not shout to their face when you thing they don't abide by it.

*yawn*

Please don't make this another ~150 post long thread about absolutely nothing.

Francois

Re: Where has the GP gone???
 

so regarding my thread,

I would like to say that lets have a small competetion where Great teams getting thier robot build by engineers or half buildt by them(Once they give the ideas out, its easy to Build it). SO lets have a competetion where there is only student ideas and only engineers or mentors helping them build it. then we will see what are the new results. I can bet 100 % no one in top 10s now wont be in top 10s in that competetion.

think about it

Don

Re: Where has the GP gone???
 

If i understand you correctly you are assuming that all good robots are done entirely by mentors? I have to disagree on that point. I would say that students play a major role on those teams, on all teams really. I've spoken with students from successful teams, teams that are consistently in the eliminations and winning awards. Yes they have more resources than a team that is 5 students and a history teacher but resources don't mean anything. Engineers are nice to have but they are just another resource a team has. And in truth, I think that students come up with better ideas. I know on 397 the mentor's couldn't figure out a good way of knocking the ball down. Our students did, not only did they come up with the idea, they designed it. And you know what, I saw a few teams come by our pits to copy it. The way we do our launcher was made as an offhand comment by a non-technical person.

Basically what I am saying is that engineers are trained to think one way. Students aren't. I would like to suggest you watch http://www.ted.com/talks/view/id/66 for more on that. If I had my way I would have include EVERY single student I could on the team, not just those interested in the sciences.

Here is a quick story that was always told to me on RUSH, it is called the Polar Bear story:
Point, creative ideas are usually really good. And students can do those every bit as well as an engineer. So stop assuming that students can't build a robot. You are doing them a disservice.

Sorry, I've never been good at counting change, can't tell .02 from .20 ;)

Re: Where has the GP gone???
 

I'd like to encourage everyone to read Don's thread before responding to him here. Pay special attention to the last post in the thread. Thank you.

Re: Where has the GP gone???
 

In other words don't respond to him, neh?

Re: Where has the GP gone???
 

I understand that GP is the cornerstone that FIRST is built on. I also understand that wanting to win something that you put a lot of time into is normal. It is natural to accept that sometimes people may not be as GP as they should be, especially after a tough loss at a tournament. It is also important to make sure that you do not blame someone else for your own loss. A ref cannot make a team lose because maybe they should have won a match before the deciding "blown call".

I guess what I'm trying to say is that sometimes teams may be upset after one tournament. If someone says one thing unGP, I suggests we let it slide, people do have emotions, you know? If it is habitual though, that is where we start to run into problems. It's normal and healthy to want to win, but GP is important to the organization, and that is what matters most here.

Re: Where has the GP gone???
 

I believe the phrase GP has been slaughtered and dragged beyond death. To me, the phrase "gracious professionalism" is losing more and more meaning as we keep using it over and over. I like this four word phrase I was taught a while back by my parents, family, teachers, and mentors alike: "Do the right thing" and that extends to "even when no one is looking." And if that isn't good enough for you I prefer a term called sportsmanship. Sportsmanship is at a peak in FIRST, where ever you turn your head, you will see teams lending a helping hand, and others apologizing and shaking hands for some of the causalities of war that occur where there is an intense competitive aura around . ...

About Jane's comment (of stepping back and not posting for a little while), I bet if Brandon temporarily suspended posting rights and made every form READ-ONLY so that we could take this 'break' you speak of, I bet he would have "negative reputation beyond repute" because people would claim it is "un-GP" for whatever reasons people could come up with.

Also as a remark to last year--some stuff happened. But not talking about Atlanta, at LSR and Bayou [and I bet others too] when there was damage to opponents, some teams made sure that they were okay. I remember that I got about ten to fifteen students to the pits of our opponents and made sure that the opposing team would be ready to run out of the crate at their next competition.

I wouldn't say there is a need for putting the keyboards down, but a need of realization of multiple things including 1) anything you post reflects your team, sponsors, and lastly yours 2) everybody is entitled to their opinion, just because you don't agree don't be quick to neg rep. have a good reason and don't be so 'trigger happy' 3) we as a community need to realize that you should NEVER silence ANY voice. Maybe moderate it from time to time, but sometimes the best comments come from people on the outside, or even people that don't see eye to eye with you. I bet there are others too, but those are some I thought were worth mentioning, for both "elite" members and for the "rookie" members alike.

Peace.
Pavan


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Re: Where has the GP gone???
 

Pavan,

AMEN...

ps. I remember last year also, that was incredible on your part.