Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

I have searched and can't find anything, but sorry if I missed it...

We've never made it to ATL to uncrate Wed. night so this experience is new to us.

I assume that this uncrating procedure is similiar to the early entry by three members with only what they need to uncrate the robot at regionals. That we can't bring our toolboxes and other pit stuff in Wed. night to set up before Thursday...

Is my assumption incorrect or are we allowed to bring in our toolboxes, battery cart and some other big items to lessen the burden Thursday morning?

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

We are in the same boat, and wondering the exact same thing. It sure would help if we could drop off our 'stuff' Wed. and then set up on Thursday.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

I am not sure, but I believe that on Wed. night you ARE allowed to bring in any toolboxes or pit tables... but you CAN NOT set them up. Just bring them in.

The only work you CAN do Wed. night is un-crate the bot and arrange to get the crate moved to the storage area.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

If I recall correctly, in the past you were allowed to bring in whatever stuff the 3 people could carry in one trip. No multiple entry and exit. No matter how much you can bring in, the only thing you can do is uncrate the rogot. You cannot start assembling pit displays or do any work on the robot.

Uncrate teams must be allowed to bring in some things - for example you need tools and safety glasses to uncrate. The question is how much is allowed. The "detailed schedule" is not up yet on the FIRST site - I suspect they're still finalizing location details based on the tornado cleanup. That schedule may tell more about uncrating teams.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

You can go to this link in the Competition Manual for a start. See Sections 3.6.3.1 and 3.7.

http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...vents-RevC.pdf

They have allowed teams to register to avoid the crush on Thurs. They have allowed you to bring in one or two? carts of your pit materials on Wed night in the past. It will probalby come out in the Detailed Agenda when they announce the Divisions at Championship. They want you to wear safety glasses and gloves, and not to set up your pit area. Only uncrate the robot. Implicit in that is that your pit materials will be stored there until the pits open on Thurs.:) Hope this helps!

Yes, you can put your batteries on charge as well (Sect. 3.6.2.3). None of us know until Thurs morning what our practice times are. you can also register your team during that time to avoid the Thursday crush.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

Section 3.7 doesn't seem to mention it, but Section 3.6.3.2 indicates that you're allowed to start charging your batteries as well.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

Last year, if I remember correctly, we could bring in our tools and cart. Uncrate the robot and not touch it, and then leave. So its kind of like thursday morning with the three people just going into uncrate and then wait for the doors to open for the rest of the team members waiting.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

Even if it's one trip for three people and we can get our battery cart in and charging, and our toolbox, and some one other large thing, that would make Thursday morning sooooo much better.

I hope thats the case.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

From my past experience:

You ARE allowed to bring in your tools/toolboxes etc.
You ARE allowed to "arrange" your pit (not unpack your tools and what not, just get your table in its place, put your toolboxes where they are going to go)
You ARE allowed to take the robot out of the box.
You ARE allowed to charge your batteries.
You ARE NOT allowed to work on the robot by any means.
You ARE NOT allowed to setup any kind of pit display.

It is a courtesy to allow teams to come in thursday morning and get cracking right away. They are expecting teams to do the GP thing and uncrate their robot and comeback the next morning ready to work.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

Actually, it is to get as many of the crates out of the way as possible. Moving the crates always a huge problem before they started letting in the "advance teams". It would be very difficult to even get to your pit first thing in the morning due to the crowds and then the moving people had to fight their way through the mess with these large objects on pallet jacks. They could barely move without running somebody over. This was especially true in the "Disney Days". I like this method much better.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

After a bit of searching last night, I was finally able to find the Championship Essential Information for 2007. Note the Load In/Load Out and the Registration and Uncrating sections.

It also has a lot of other useful information for teams that have not been to the Championships before. I'm sure the 2008 version will be available in just a few days.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

Believe me, I was around in those days too, and i know what you are saying

My point was that it is a privilege to be in there on wednesday night so teams should just uncrate, get neat, and get out...not try and bend the rules to do some random task.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

Last year while in Atlanta, I volunteered on most of Wednesday working in the pits, distributing tee shirts and the posters, as well as acting as one of the "bouncers" making sure teams only brought in three members to uncrate, and they all had safety glasses.

So coming from a volunteer, here's several things that will make everyone's lives easier:

• You need a wristband to enter the pits on Wednesday. These are available at the registration tables in the lobby of the GWCC.
• Please keep everything - all totes, carts, etc. - on the plastic when rolling it through the GWCC lobby. This does not come from FIRST, but from GWCC staff who are very protective of the carpeting.
• Please have your safety glasses on and ready to go.
• When you leave the pits, you need to have your wristband cut off; to keep everything moving quick please don't but them on tight.
• And last, but certainly not least, please do not work on your robot or try to sneak more team members in through other entrances. I lost a LOT of respect for a very well known/successful FRC team last year when I found they had snuck nearly twenty team members (mentors and students) into the pits and were beginning to work on their robot on Wednesday.

If everyone can abide by these simple rules, everything will go much quicker and smoother on Wednesday evening, and we will all be able to get on with getting dinner/sleeping/strategizing/exploring Atlanta/playing Rock Band/trying to get one more Webhug ticket/having a good time. :cool:

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

i was told you could only carry in what you need to open your crate,
then unack the crate, plug in batteries, and leave.

i have posted the question in the FIRST Q+A so we can get a final answer.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

Like I said from MY PAST EXPERIENCE, you could bring in all of your stuff

I do not know if it will change this year or not, but it seems to me like that would not be advantageous because it clears a lot of "traffic" out of the way that shows up on thursday morning.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

last year when we uncrate wed. night u get to unload as much as possible to put in ur pits. u are allowed 3 members like if it was in a regional on the first day of competition. u are allowed to uncrate ur robot and set up ur batteries to let them charge overnight if u so choose. thats wat i remeber last yr. when i went to uncrate at the championship.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

Except that the purpose of Wed night uncrating is to get the crates out so that there's room for all that stuff. Last year teams were limited to what the three people could bring in one trip.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

While we haven't yet seen the guidance from FIRST about pit access on Wednesday for this year, it is clear that the intent of Wed evening access is to get the robots out of the crates, in order to allow unfettered team access on Thursday.

I would therefore plan on uncrating your robots, plugging in your battery chargers, and going to the FIRST Robotics Conference, which will be starting Wednesday evening at 5:00 pm.

Looking forward to seeing all of you there!

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

I'm not sure when FIRST posted this, but the 2008 Essential Information document is now online.

The Wednesday Night Load In rules are VERY different from last year. You are NOT allowed to bring in carts, wagons, trolleys, tools, etc... Please read this document prior to showing up with your entire tool set.

Having volunteered during Load In, I can tell you that many teams have tried to take advantage of what one would consider "hand carried." While I'm not a huge fan of these new load in rules, we'll be armed with just a battery tote and a cordless drill to open the crate. See you all in ATL.

Bengineer

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

Darn it. Oh well...

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

I can't really envision a safe way of bringing in a team's collection of batteries and chargers for the purposes of plugging them in without using a cart - do you suppose an exception will be made for "battery carts"?

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

idk... but our battery charger is connected to our pit... i guess we have something to do tuesday night:rolleyes:

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

By the way,

This is NOT the same Essential Event Information document that was posted late last night. The original document did not mention anything about carts not being allowed. I happened to have a printed version of the document I read last night sitting in front of me. The version now on the FIRST website is different. I have not compared the entire document yet. I hope everyone reads the new version.

I just wish we didn't have to have the same discussions every year about all this. FIRST has tried for several years now to not allow teams to bring in things during early unloading but have always been convinced to change their minds after teams voiced their safety and logistical concerns. Do we always have to re-learn the same lesson the hard way each year???

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

They changed this today after 8:00 AM. I also have the other version that I downloaded when I got into work.

I cannot imagine the line up of vehicles waiting to turn off Northside Ave on Thursday morning. I think the que will start sometime early in the AM.

If it is raining on Thursday morning, how early we will have access to the building?

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

We have to have this discussion every year, because every year teams push violently against the rules until they break. For example, last year the rules were pretty darn clear: "three people can enter through the gates one time, and bring in one load of material to leave in their pit. They can uncrate the robot and plug in battery chargers, and leave their materials to be assembled in the morning." Pretty simple and straightforward.

So what did multiple teams do? They "engineered loopholes" to circumvent the rules. They had three people enter the pits. Then they had multiple team members line up outside the entrance, and passed load after load after load of carts, batteries, tool chests, pits construction materials, their kitchen sinks, and their mother's kitchen sinks through the entrance to the three anxious team members on the other side. They created havoc for the traffic flow, endangered themselves and others as they ran back and forth with heavy loads in their arms, and effectively blocked the way when the Sheppard Services folks were trying to remove crates from the pits. They did what was clearly against the intent of the access rules, and then used the classic "well, the rules didn't say we couldn't do that" as the justification

The rule this year is pretty clear. And I am willing to bet that it won't be changed. Is it going to be a little more difficult? Perhaps. But all the teams that "engineered loopholes" in last year's rules have no one but themselves to blame.

-dave

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

Dave,

I understand that a few teams have broken the rules the last few years but those teams were in the minority. Why is it that the rest of us have to pay for the unprofessionalism of a few? No matter how restrictive the rules are, there will always be the few who find a way to get around them. The issue is more about the ability of FIRST to enforce the rules they set.

My other issue with all this is the fact that teams are finding out a week before the Championship that this major change has occured. Teams have been planning for weeks (if not months) based on the documentation that has been available since January and was used during all the regionals which allowed teams to bring in their pit materials during early load in. Why is this "rule" change being done just for Champs? Many teams violated the rules during week 1 of Regionals but the rule wasn't changed during the season... Why was this not published earlier to allow teams to prepare accordingly?

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

I've un-crated the last two years. We've always gotten the robot out and on the cart, got the batteries charging, and pushed the crate into the isle to get picked up. we usually leave everything neat an organized on the table to be later sorted when we're allowed to set up the pit.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

THEY WILL NOT ALLOW BATTERY CARTS!! From what I was told when I called FIRST HQ today, they said NOTHING on wheels will be allowed in on Wednesday night. I questioned this because we are walking from the Marriott with 8 batteries, chargers and our drills, and were hoping to at least put our batteries in a rolling suitcase.

While Dave seems to be against the teams "engineering" ways around things, Im certainly not going to break my back & arms carrying batteries 8 blocks through Atlanta, so expect some sort of hiking backpack or something to be coming in with me. Either that or maybe we will just overload the circuits at the Marriott Wednesday night :)

FIRST told me this was actually due to safety concerns, which I do remember seeing last year. I didnt see the bucket brigade of stuff that went in, by some teams, but I definitely see the safety issue. But I would think a simple Cart with nothing taller than 3 feet could allow teams to safely carry things in. Oh well leave it to the "ban everything" mindset.

Im actually more worried about what is going to happen Thursday morning when teams are trying to pile all their stuff into the pits along with 40 people from each team. Now THAT sounds like a safety hazard. Everyone watch your toes & wear hardhats!

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

Having volunteered at the main gate to the pits for the Wednesday load-in last year, and I can probably count on one hand how many teams did the above. If making the entire load in process more efficient was the reason behind the new anti-cart rule, simply informing people of the existing rules would have been much more beneficial.

I had to explain to more teams how the load-in works (three people only, they all need wristbands*, stay on plastic, need safety glasses, don't work on robots) at the door of the pits than I can shake a stick at. And that was a much larger problem to the efficiency of the load in procedure than the few teams who got creative with their load-in process.

Having two or three more volunteers outside the entrance of the GWCC to directly explain to every team entering the rules before they entered would have been a lot simpler (and less stressful option) for all the teams attending. As of right now, Thursday morning is going to be a zoo at the GWCC, and I feel sorry for the volunteers who have to manage that.

* Out of all of these, this was the biggest impairment. Most people would just try to walk in, and that was what really slowed the process down as they all had to move out of the way, and find somewhere on the limited plastic to park their stuff, which backed up all the teams behind them.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

I've got an idea, lets all call FIRST HQ tomorrow and whine about how unfair the rules are! (sarcasm)

Instead of complaining about something, why not just go by the rules. I it find ironic that some of the people who complain the most, are the first ones to talk about "Gracious Professionalism". As mentors and experienced team members we should be setting the example, not teaching new members if we complain/whine enough maybe we can get our way. Like a small child throwing a temper tantrum.

Let's remember the reason for Wed. night is to uncrate the robots, so the crates can be removed. Can you imagine what it would be like if this had to be done Thur. morning, with all the forklifts w/crates. (Like our 1st year in Atlanta.) Due to the tornadoes our pit area is half the size,(Making room for the auto show) making this year's aisles looking smaller, and with a lot less room in the pits. This makes for a dangerous situation. All it takes is for one person to get seriously hurt. Then lets see how the rules change.

Maybe this year, if everyone goes by the rules, and behaves themselves, and show gracious professionalism, next year they will relax the rules.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

Ultimately all of us do follow the rules, but Gracious Professionalism has nothing to do with blindly/quietly sitting down and swallowing everything FIRST throws at us.

We all care about FIRST; as such when we see decisions that we perceive as not being the best for the program/teams/students, we (as a free and democratic society) have a right to voice our opinions in a constructive manner to help rectify what we see as a wrong.

Problems never just fix themselves because everyone sits passively and patiently waiting; it takes constructive action to fix problems. As such, your [sarcastic] response of calling FIRST and complaining to them is actually the best solution, as long as the complaining is constructive criticism and not whining for the sake of whining.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

I completely agree. This event is already hard to coordinate for the teams and now instead of being able to get part of it done on Wed night we have to cram it in on Thurs morning while tripping over everyone (10,000+ of everyone) trying to get into the event.

I am not happy about this and am also tired of something different every year. I think this is a big mistake from a safety, logistics, and timing perspective. Now we all have to get up earlier and plan to get everything unloaded out front of the hall. We used to have a 3 hour span of time for 333 teams and now everyone is going to be doing it at the same time. VERY BAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stomping my feet. Sorry.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

Was there always a Wednesday night uncrating?
Or did that come about in order to get the crates moved out of the area so that load-in could occur on Thursday without having to contend with crates as well?

Do we know the impact of the recent weather damage to the event venue and how that plays into decisions/plans?

I'm glad we are all able to attend the Championship in Atlanta despite the damage that so recently occurred.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

My concern isn't so much regarding what happens INSIDE the building - it's focused on what happens OUTSIDE!

There's only so much room out there for vehicle access, and it does take time for each team vehicle, especially trailers, to unload its cargo. How many vehicles can the unloading area support at once? This wouldn't be nearly as much of a problem if most had the opportunity to bring the vast majority of their material in on Wednesday.

Maybe FIRST could make it optional to have team vehicles unload in the plaza up near Building B (for those teams who don't need to unload anything from their vehicles but people and a few hand-carryables) to reduce unnecessary traffic in the unloading area?

My other concern is the relative bottleneck at the entrance to the pit hall. You know, the rolltop gates of doom. You know how uncaring motorists like to zoom past everyone waiting in line in a construction zone and create a traffic jam right at the constriction instead of getting in line with everyone else well back of the construction bottleneck so the traffic can proceed through the restriction smoothly? Well is there anything we/FIRST can do to prevent such a bottleneck from forming at the pit hall entrance?

Can FIRST rope off the area and form a channel that runs well back of the pit entrance, or is that just going to cause traffic to back up outside into the sidewalk area? Thoughts?

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

I think the old system was fine but could use a tweak. Not a complete re-design.
Positive point of the old system:
You have a 3 hour window to get 3 people in & out of your pit. No need to hurry, you can't work in there anyhow.
All of this occurred After Rush-hour in Atlanta so traffic was not as big of an issue.

Problems with old system:
People broke the rules, if you could bring in stuff, teams tried to work on robots.
People abused the 1 load-in system.

Fixes -
have teams police each other, we do have the capacity to tell other teams that "hey we aren't supposed to set up out pit" or "hey you really aren't supposed to work on your robot"

Create a no-mans land for entrance

pass this line & you are in ] no-mans land [ pass this line & you are out.

Positives of the new system.
Little to no gray area.

Problems with the new system.
You have to bring everything in the pit while you have 3,000 people trying to enter so they can get to work on their robots as soon as possible.
Most of this will happen during rush hour in Atlanta on a Friday.

Let's try & remember the mob scene when they open the doors on Thursday in past years. Now add carts, & parts, & pits, & tents, & this & that.

Someone is going to get hurt.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

One thing to remember is that many of the volunteers working in this area, as in all areas, are members of teams. They are volunteering to help the event/teams/FIRST - run smoothly and efficiently. Some of the factors that add to bottlenecks, confusion, and accidents are the emotions involved - tempers, attitudes, frustrations. If each team works to keep those in check and helps each other in that area, just as we've seen time and time again here on CD, it will help.

In a conversation with a couple of FIRSTers a couple of weeks ago, I think we decided that - maybe - 25% of the FIRST teams access/use/read/post on CD. Those of us that do can help this situation by keeping the standard of conduct and respect for the system that is in place, and the volunteers, at a level our grandmothers would appreciate.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

Because they hurt the majority of teams by doing it "their way" much more than having the rules changed where it's slightly more taxing for all the teams, but their kept from being "that jerk".

Creating rules like this is a juggling match between preventing teams from screwing others over and not hurting legit teams.

ANYWAY, I do agree with Travis, there's enough room INSIDE, it's the outside that is a pain in the arse to deal with (which then pertains to Dave's comment, when you have 10x the amount of people outside, you screw up others). I remember back in 2005 getting up at 5am to move things into the dome so there won't be a crunch, so I know the pain.

While I like this idea, if those teams that are breaking the rules are doing it, they obviously don't care what others might think and won't change unless Paul rides up to them on a Segway, holds up their match list and registration, and threatens to rip it into millions of little pieces.

One of the proud things 384 has had was our spirited mentors who volunteer at events, even when their kids aren't going. One of those mentors was verbally abused during loading on Saturday by a team we consider to have good relations with. We had no idea what went on, but had to bascially tell her she did right, and it just takes that one moment when they don't have control of something to flip out.

I'm guilty of this too a lot, when you are out of control of a big, special, expensive, and important situation you thought you had under wraps (you're team's bot is snapped in two, batteries explode, kids get sick, etc) and then that one extra thing just snaps the horse's back. I've seen that too many times in another form at Disney World.

Re: Uncrating Wed. night - unload pit stuff?
 

Early Pit entry started in Atlanta. Before that there were large parking lots adjacent to the venue. This allowed easier unloading without the traffic control needed currently. In 2004 early entry was on Thursday...remember the elevator line?