Hall of Fame Input
 

As more teams are added to the Hall of Fame, we are struggling with the role it should play at the Championship Event. Although a showcase for the Chairman's winning teams, the HOF should also be a tool to inspire the FIRST community. If you have any suggestions on what your team would like to see from the Hall of Fame displays/participants to serve all the teams (present and future), please post here. I will prepare these to present to FIRST and the other HOF teams. Thank you.

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

I just wish I could get a group of kids together to put together a display. Our, 1038, roots are from 144. When we moved schools, due to school board losing interst and putting all efforts into sports, we lost our number.

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

I might be able to contact a couple of the former members of 144. Probably not any of the members from 1996 when they won, but from 1999 and 2000. I was teaching at Walnut Hills then, and I was hosting the Lego League kids in my classroom, so I had a number of team members in class and have kept in some level of contact with them. Let me know if you would like the help.

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

I was asked to give my thoughts on this topic in Atlanta so here it is.

I think that the HoF needs to be revamped big time! I think teams need to show what they did to impact their community and help spread the message of FIRST. Teams need to bring not only films of what they did "back in the day" to win the award but visuals such as playing fields, current movies and pictures, and more than that I would love to see packets of information with people knowledgeable about everything. Sure we all enjoy you posting pictures of your robots and pictures of your teams and some videos you guys made "once upon a time", but what do you do NOW?

You are supposed to set an example, not only back then when you won the award, but NOW and I do not see that. I think the HoF is very important but is lacking of information. Sure I can pick up brochures of stuff you do and read about your impact but that doesn't matter anymore (meaning you don't have to show off to the judges, etc., you already won), now you need brochures with information on HOW you host different activities, HOW you help XYZ number of FLL teams, HOW you raised 10M dollars for the UVW cause, and more importantly HOW you get people interested in Robotics Education** from A to Z - talking to people about starting teams, to helping fund the FIRST $RST amount of money and how to sustain that team with teachers, sponsors, the community.

We can find the information you currently present by asking people at your pits, or your websites. If you have the information I ask for in your HoF where it is easily accessible due to a robot-free, stress-free environment, you could help start more teams by helping us start more teams, and while thinking of ways to do this you can better yourself.

**I mean Robotics Education and not specifically FIRST teams. Spreading the message of FIRST does not mean spreading ONLY FRC/FLL/FTC, it means the message: the inspiration and recognition of science and technology.



EDIT: I also want to see EVERYTHING you do in the public domain. From every speech you have written speaking about robotics education to the Chairman's submission that you won your award with. I want yearly recaps and possibly seasonal newsletters, if not individually then by a collaboration where a team takes charge and publishes the paper full of a summary by each team and distributes it in both an electronic and physical fashion.


More edits to come soon as I think even harder overnight.

Pavan


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Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

Think about the power of possibility.

You have:
- a small space that could be seen as limiting or as a window of opportunity that few of the FRC teams have.
- a message - what is the message?
- achievement - what is it?
- a team - who are you?
- roots - what are they?
- alumni - where are they and what are they doing?
- dreams -
- inspiration -
- prestige -

Share. Awards all have the same shape. The teams who earn these awards are shaped by the power of possibility. Showcase that.

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

We are looking very forward to being at the Hall of Fame next year! We are as excited about that as we were about competing for the chairman's. We are already making plans and we intend to use ideas discussed here! Thanks for starting this thread!

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Once again no sign of the Woodie Flowers award anywhere. We keep hearing from FIRST how important the Chairman's award and the Woodie Flowers award is and then they treat them as afterthoughts.

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I do not think this is an example of what they should have, those are personal achievements. HoF teams are supposed to set an example for teams to emulate them and some of the programs they are involved in. I don't see how we can emulate "5 alumni going to MIT, started in 1995, worked with team XYZ for the build" but I can see how we can emulate the EARLY program, hosting a FLL tournaments (with logistics provided), etc. How will that help ME in my community? How is that going to work out?

Am I asking too much?


Pavan



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Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

Don't forget that the HoF teams are given very limited space and have to do with whats given to them, and also its really hard to have people there able to talk to people at all times when students are needed for other jobs.

I would like to see more space given back to the teams and allowed to put up the displays they used to be able to use. I loved the HoF this year because it was accessible to more people by not being in the pit's and not having to wear safety glasses to get to it.

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

Koko,
I saw the Woody Flowers Award on one of the display stands.
I don't know when it got there, nor when it left.
Just thought this needed to be shared - maybe someone else can confirm it.

Mike

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

This is something I liked too. I know that thorughout the competition there is a common video feed running with advertisements from companies (for example, Motorola). Can we replace this and put those custom made videos that are only shown once before the announcement of the chairmans winner, and make them a looping feed?

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

More space means that teams can do more, so I am all for that!

Next year it would be nice if FIRST could release clear and concise information about the Hall of Fame with everything else at kickoff, instead of at the end of Feb. when teams are mostly focused on preparing or competing at regionals.

Things I feel should be included:

• When to set-up the displays (Told Thur. night, most already up Thur. AM)
• Hours it will be open (I feel it should be open the whole time instead of just Fri. and 1/2 of Saturday)
• Actual display dimensions (So posters can be designed early on and not rushed.)
• What will be provided (Curved Backdrop, Cylinder Tables, Chairs, Lights, ect...)

I love that we have gotten the HoF out of the pits, but having items like nice projectors and monitors next to unmonitored exterior doors is just asking for trouble. I think that many of the HoF teams would feel more comfortable having somewhere safe (not in pits) to store items. I feel that FIRST needs to arrange for a secure area (read as "place with locks on doors") for teams to store parts of their displays overnight and when not in use (like during opening ceremonies.) Although I might be biased, because we had items lifted from a covered part of our display during lunch Thursday afternoon.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Those "Personal Achievements" might be a part of why teams won their Chairman's Awards in the first place, and I think they need to be acknowledged and shown along with programs that are being run. They are the sort of unique stories and facts that draw visitors into hearing more.

I do not think you can expect students (some of whom might be in their first year) to answer questions so in depth even if they were well-trained and knowledgeable in our programs. It would be insanely hard for me to provide you logistics information to the depth I feel you are asking for, and I've been around for 8 years. I would probably send you to our website and/or give you the contact information for the mentor that facilitates the program you are asking about.

I saw the WFA there for a few minutes on Friday afternoon, some of the past winners(?) took a picture with it, and then it was gone again.

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

Meredith, do you know anything about the Woodie Flowers showcase that was supposed to be there this year?

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

No, Pavan, I don't know anything about this. The big trophy showed up for a while - that's all I saw of the WFA. What was supposed to happen - this showcase?

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

As best I can tell there are two topics here. Having been part of 103 in the past, a former Senior Mentor with FIRST, and a current advocate for positive imporvement for H of F, I'll shed what limited light I can on these two topics.

1. What teams display and share in the hall / the call for "full disclosure" / "what have you done lately?":
-I'm not sure where Pavan's original intent is coming from, but I think you're getting some things confused here. As others have stated, FIRST provides limited space for the HofF teams, and provides guidance to teams on what it might/should display. The DVD is one of those items and it's a must do for attending teams. All teams can and will continue to choose content here within those guidelines.

I would wholeheartedly disagree with your comments about things in the hall not being inspirational/helpful. I would agree with you that what my old team did in 2003 (and Buzz in 2002, etc, etc) may not be fully/practically applicable to your team's current efforts and, the further back in the hall you go, that may become more and more true for you. However, I would suggest a different way of looking at it. The Hall of Fame is there to INSPIRE, not necessarily there to provide a detailed roadmap to success for your team in your community. When I walk through the hall, I love going in chronological order to see how each team "raised the bar" and then, how the next that won, in its own way, raised it even higher. Wow - talk about inspiration!

When 118 makes it to the hall someday (and I hope you do), I'm sure you'll understand. Pavan, your current comments could be seen as accusatory. I sincerely hope that there is no part of your being that wonders whether or not these teams deserve to be there or that you think they aren't "doing their job" as hall of famers.

These teams are excellent role models (all of them), but they are in no way limitless in their time, people, and resources. Imagine going through a full FIRST season, attending the championship, and then on top of it you must produce a full fledged DVD for display along with finding a way to split off part of your team for the hall of fame effort and, for some, almost never even see a match in Atlanta. Now also imagine being a student on one of these teams who wasn't a part of the team when it won the CA (heck, maybe they didn't even know about the team then). These students and teams, under current rules, will never again have the opportunity of going through a chairman's award interview or have their entry judged like the rest of us. While they have great pride in the programs they belong to, there is a sacrifice they make every year that you and I don't have to. And don't be too darn hard on these folks if you don't perceive them as "doing more / doing now / doing new" lately. Let us not forget that they too need new/continued sponsors, they too lose mentors and support that needs to be recouped, they too have gone through the same exhaustive efforts that you have all year long.

Thus, a perfect "Segway" (sorry, I just had to ... the poor spelling is worth it) to number 2 here...

2. Revamping the Hall of Fame / Making Improvements
You will be happy to know that this is, at least, being discussed at the HQ level. There was a Hall of Fame meeting in Atlanta (no, I wasn't there) and there is also a small group (yes, I'm a part of this group and so are some other WFA, and national advisor folks) that has taken input from the CD community on this topic from previous threads and put together an idea/proposal for enhancement. That proposal was hand carried to HQ staff that attended/ran the meeting, delivered, and discussed.

It's important to note that whatever improvements are considered, they not only need to benefit the whole FIRST community, but they also need to put less stress / make more sense to the H of F teams themselves. In addition to that, enhancing the visibility of the WFA (and founders/volunteer awards as well) are all parts of the proposal that went forward.

Please also note, our proposal/group has no official authority, nor does FIRST have to listen to this input if they don't want to, but they are. They are sincere about trying to make improvements and have sought input from all types of sources.

In the end, it's going to come down to resources, time, space, and money. FIRST has a lot on its plate with other changes going on, but please know that this is a topic they are interested in.

If you'd like your additional thoughts on improving the Hall of Fame/similar displays to be known, please send them to FIRST in the right way. However, when you do, do it with suggestions that are thoughtful and benefit to ALL involved. Calling for "full disclosure" isn't even something you can really measure and it comes off as abrasive. Now, if you want to streamline your thought to include "concrete things we'd like to see in displays" then, by all means, send them.

Namaste.

Now - back to the original question ... The Bomb Squad wants your input :)

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

A suggestion for HOF teams if space is limited -

How about a user-navigable "information kiosk" powered by a laptop/PC running PowerPoint or what have you?

You could create an almost unlimited number of presentations on not only who you were but who you are, what you do now, and how you do it. A simple hyperlink menu would let people choose which information they wish to access.

You could also embed pictures and video and such in this kiosk - run your "de facto" video when people aren't there to access the other information.

We are investigating this method as a way to concatenate all the information and reclaim all the pit real estate we used to consume by hanging banners, bringing an easel with posters, etc.

In addition, in Atlanta, Team 48, in conjunction with the other 3 Northeast Ohio FIRST Robotics Alliance (NEOFRA) FRC teams, handed out flyers to other teams describing some of the ways our regional partnership benefitted our teams, encouraging others to form similar partnerships and providing contact information if they sought more information. That would be another active method of getting your most useful HOF ideas in the hands of other teams looking for such guidance.

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

My view of what the Hall of Fame comes from the speeches given every year at kickoff. Here is the excerpt from 2007's speech.
What I interpreted from "serve as examples for the rest of us to follow" meant that the teams that get in the HoF are teams that other teams should try to emulate. By being in the HoF, it was my interpretation, you had the opportunity to have teams emulate your success in the community.

I know have more knowledge on what goes on with the HoF (thanks to your post) and some of my views have swayed. I do believe that the DVDs and the other things teams show are important, but I believe helping others spread the message of FIRST is the bigger idea of the HoF. To provide a place where teams can see other teams that they can emulate or bounce ideas off of that have already had great success and been recognized by FIRST.

I apologize to you and others who might have taken my remarks as accusatory. I have tremendous respect for all of the HoF teams because they have all have greatly impacted their community and continue to do so. I just wanted some more information as to how I could impact my community the same way they impact their community by implementing programs, restructuring teams, etc.



Pavan

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Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

Actually FIRST doesn't currently provide much guidance on HoF displays (which is not necessarily bad) and the DVD is optional (I'm not sure what happens to it). The only requirement to maintain "star status" is a Chairman's Award entry - see Section 5.14 of the manual.

I believe Pavan's frustration is representative of a lot of the FIRST community and the HoF teams, and that is why we are trying to define the mission.

I am working on some ideas to send to FIRST. One of the things they are asking is: How would you define the mission of the HOF Community in one sentence?

Any suggestions? (One sentance, Pavan:P )

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

The mission of the HoF community is to showcase the impact that these teams have had on their community and potentially - our culture and society on a global level - as they reflect their continual achievements from the past, the present, and their plans for the future, in the display.

(you didn't say it could not be a run-on sentence, Meredith. :D )


This could also be a part of the mission of the individuals that Rich has suggested, such as an added visibility of the achievements and recognition of our WFAs, etc.

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

Given that the Hall of Fame teams are there because they have won the highest honor in FRC, and given that the honor is bestowed on the team that best embodies the goals of FIRST, I think the mission is obvious.

The Hall of Fame Community is tasked with showcasing the actions, accomplishments, and attitudes of Chairman's-Award-winning teams, in order to give other teams a clear view of what FIRST wants them to aspire to.

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

@ Meredith - My suggestion would be to add a word limit next time ;)
@ Jane - Doesn't Dave tell us not to lawyer the rules? :)

...

How would you define the mission of the HOF Community in one sentence?

To help teams across the world better support their communities' needs for robotics education/outreach by being a resource and helping guide these teams by providing them with information about new programs, partnerships, etc., so they can emulate these programs, partnerships, etc., which have been proven successful.


Pavan


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Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

[quote=Pavan Dave

How would you define the mission of the HOF Community in one sentence?

Pavan


QUOTE]

How about if the next 9 year old that discovers one of these incredible teams says out loud.


"WOW!!"

Sorry Jane, I guess "quote" is in my future vocabulary

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

Whoops ..... sorry about that. The DVD is currently optional and the entry is mandatory .... a recent change .. . I am getting old :)...

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

For about 3 or 4 years I sat in the HOF at nationals. Needless to say, it wasn't fun. It was an honor to see that the hard work that my team had done was still being recognized, but the way that the HOF is set up and run needs to be changed. On my old team (175), we'd take very few kids to the championship event. And after splitting the team up between the drive team, scouting, and pit crew, we were spread very thin, and then on top of that, we had to put people in the HOF. Sitting in the HOF during the event, not being able to really see my team in action, or even see a screen that the matches were being displayed on stunk. It just felt like the kids that were in the HOF were more or less separated from the rest of the event.

What would be a great alternative to the HOF I think would be putting all of the HOF teams in their own pit row. Give them bigger pit spaces to accommodate not only their team, and their robot, but also so they can set up their HOF display in the pit. This would not only allow the teams to be together and not so separated, but it would also allow people passing through to look at HOF to view their robot, their team dynamic skills, and all of the other fancy stuff that goes into the HOF displays.

I honestly don't understand why FIRST won't do this.
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of the hall of fame, I just know for a fact if you asked any student that has to sit there all day how they felt about it, they'd probably feel the same way (at least a little) I do/did.

Not to be a Debbie Downer or anything, but FIRST really needs to step up their game when it comes to the HOF. It's been like this for too long, and it's not fair to the teams for having to rotate people in and out of the displays, or to the students are stuck there.

Because honestly, in the what...3 days I was in the HOF every year, only about 20 people (including judges) really asked about what my team had done that got us the award, or asked for advice on what to do. The rest were just people getting pins. Which is why it'd be great if FIRST would go with the idea that I, and many others have had about combining HOF team's pits and their display into one place.

Anyone else agree or disagree?

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

Call it a necessary evil or even a noble sacrifice for the cause.
I just wish that FIRST would do the same for the HOF. If they can't or won't then give it to the HOF teams to run. These are proud capable teams and I bet you they'll make it right.

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

I feel like a bum for just responding to this all now, but in April I hadn't planned on making it to the championships, so I didn't get around to reading this until now.

But this statement is quite possibly the most irrational thing to demand out of teams that win the Chairman's Award. It'd be like looking at someone after an iron man competition and telling them "Oh hey, congrats, but now what we're going to have you do, right now, and for every year for the rest of your existence, is basically re-do and document what you just did". Any CA winning team (both regional and national), would tell you that the amount of work you put into your Chairman's submittal is exhausting.

It's more or less impossible to document everything, but I'm more than certain if you simply went and ASKED any Chairman's Award winning team member in the HOF what it took for them to get there, they'd gladly tell you what they did in full detail. Because that's what they're sitting there in the HOF for, to talk to other people and share ideas.
I don't know where you get the idea that teams that are in the HOF should be spoon feeding teams that can't quite figure out how to get there. Any team that is trying to win Chairman's should be and is more than likely so far out and driven on their own path that they don't need directions from past winners to succeed.

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

There also was a meeting recently in NH of representatives from HOF teams (some dialed in) to discuss these and other issues. As Rich said, our suggestions had no official authority but FIRST was very interested in our views. And interestingly, most of the suggestions/comments made in this thread were echoed at that meeting - great minds think alike!

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

Being in the HoF means you did something right. By being in it and having a booth and people doesn't mean much. NOT everyone I talked to knew what they were talking about. Many times they would say "you may want to talk to ____ (s)/he is on the field but maybe you can catch them" or something along those lines. THE people I wanted to talk to were not there.

Being in the HoF means you did something right at one point and time. I want to know this information to better help my community. I don't care about the award. I will try to impact my community regardless if FIRST wants me spreading jFLL instead of EARLY or FLL instead of GEAR. I will do what my community needs me to do and by winning Chairmans and them recognizing that I am "worthy" of this "honor" means nothing to ME if tomorrow one of the students I host at the EARLY or GEAR or ANY competition tells me he wants to be an engineer and work on robots instead of being the next Michael Jordan or Muse.

Its about doing something without a care for whatever recognition you might or might not get.

However since these teams have demonstrated at one point in time they were the best example in their community, maybe I could adopt one of those programs to make my impact in the community even GREATER.

I want the HoF teams to help me spread STEM more efficiently by showing me what they did to deserve the "honor" of being in the HoF.

I don't care about the award. That is my position. From now, till the end. I would however like to be spoonfed or just fed all of the information that have made other communities successful. I think it IS the spirit of FIRST and of GP to spread your knowledge of spreading STEM efficiently.

Deleted the rest. The people who I am talking to know already what I am trying to say.

Re: Hall of Fame Input
 

Our '92 entry is lost forever after numerous moves. It's was a game with a board and everything.