Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

I know there is a post on similar lines but my situation is a bit different...
My team has the money we need to operate but we don't have sponsors for materials, instead of getting people to donate/reduce price on tools and metal we have to shell out the majority of our budget to buy this stuff. Because our money goes towards parts and tools (barely) the students have to pay for hotels and airlines, etc; and we have problems retaining a mentor with the meager salary we can offer them for the huge time commitment we require.
Any suggestion on how to approach or find industrial supply or metal for our needs?
Also, and a bit aside, I noticed a lot of people talking about CNC mills; we would not have the finances for a good CNC mill unless we didn't build a robot for a year. Is it normal for teams to get one?

I'm leaving my team this year and heading to college, so I'm hoping to fix/set up somethings for next year so it's easier on my post-decessors. Any suggestions about money management would also be appreciated.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Somehow I couldn't get past the idea of mentors getting paid. Sign me up!

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Paid mentors--see if you can get a volunteer.

CNC--You don't need it. My old team only has a drill press and hand tools--the press belongs to a mentor. Come to think of it, the same goes for my current team.

To find industrial supply/machine supply/machine shops, try the phone book. You'd look under machine shops, metal, or any other relevant "keyword". You could do the same thing on the internet. Then, you find the place and talk to the manager or owner. If you can get them on board, you should have no problem. They may even be able to tell you other places to look.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Your team sounds like its in pretty good shape. We have a drill press, band saw and sander. We struggle every year to find a build space. Getting paid...wow....it costs me money. Our students pay for their own travel as do all the mentors. We have fundraisers where they can try to cover some of the costs....but mostly they shell out.

Try to get someone from a machine shop or a metal supply place on board with your team. Show them pictures....take the robot by. Once they are as excited as you are.....they might cut you a break.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Wait, didn't you guys go to 4 regionals this year? + Atlanta?

If you had money for entering those, I don't see why some tools couldn't have been bought instead of a regional or two. :confused:

Either way, good luck. And yea, check the phone book - surprisingly useful. :)

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

I know Knott's (They make 80/20, among other things) sponsors some FIRST teams (including us), you might want to see if they'd be willing to sponsor you in some way.

Our school does the Project Lead The Way engineering courses, and as part of it, bought a small Intelitek CNC, and we use it occasionally for parts. In reality though, it isn't really necessary, it just saves use a bit of time on the really tedious things, we wind up making most things on an old manual Bridgeport (but well-maintained) and two 40-year old South Bend lathes we got to keep when they got rid of metal shop.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

5 EVENTS!

LOL, most teams would kill for that much money.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Sorry, but I find it hard to sympathize with a team that spent $23,000 in registration fees alone and pays their mentors asking for money. :rolleyes:

Seriously I'd echo many of the previous statements. Look for local machine shops that may be willing to sponsor you or let you use their tools. Many college machine shops may also be willing to produce a part or two for you when needed.
Perhaps look at re-allocating where you spend your team funding to reduce the travel costs, and allowing for more to be spent on tools and parts.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Wonderful! So what’s the problem again? :confused:

Oh, now I see. ;) Uh, you sound like you are in much better shape than most teams already. At least you have the money to shell out on materials and tools.

Many teams operate this way. We fundraise as much as we can but it is never enough. The shortfall is divided up and each student on our team pays their part to travel to competition.

Are you serious? You pay your "mentors"? Uh, isn't the definition of a mentor someone who volunteers? If you pay them aren't they now just professional consultants? I can't tell you how much money I spend out of my pocket each year for the team including tools, materials, and travel costs. I can't imagine getting paid money to do this. :eek: My payment is the joy I get from being a part of it. :D

As mentioned above start with the phonebook. As with most teams we purchase most all of our materials but sometimes work a little educational discount into the deal. The great folks at our local Fastenal generously donated some aluminum to us this year, which was a first for us. Sometimes it takes years to develop these relationships. Once you have them, do whatever it takes to keep them.

No CNC required. For power tools we have a floor standing drill press, a bench drill press, a bandsaw, a tablesaw (used for wood only), a cheapo 10" mitersaw (for metal cutting), a 12" mitersaw (used for wood only), a 1" belt sander, a 4" belt sander, and 3 cordless drills. Most all of these have been purchased by myself and either donated to the team or on "indefinite loan". The same goes for most of our hand tools. I say this only to give you and idea what sort of commitment many mentors have for their teams. I guess I am still struggling with the concept of paying a mentor rather than the other way around. BTW: We do have access to a full R&D machine shop with zillion $ CNC equipment and can have them make pretty much whatever we would like but due to liability reasons the students aren't allowed to use the machine tools so the students prefer to do it themselves with the tools we have.

Again, uh, IIRC Team 555 was the only team that went to 4 regionals and is going to the Championships as well. I really can't even imagine ever having enough funds to make it to 5 competitions in one year. By my math that is $23,000 in entry fees alone. Not knowing any of the details about Team 555's financial situation, but since you asked, my suggestion on money management might be to consider going to a few less competitions next year. But whatever you do don't cut out the Bayou Regional. We loved you guys and would sure miss you if you aren't there next year! :yikes:

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

I don't know of many teams that get materials donated, other than bits and pieces. Some sponsors will donate some machine time, but not materials.

We have learned that many suppliers (aluminum tube, plate, etc) will reduce the price if you buy in quantity, but it is a volume discount. Many of these suppliers are low margin businesses and cannot afford to give things away.
Maybe by planning, you can make one big purchase for a lower total cost.

For tools, try a wholesale tool or harbor freight type place for items that will be low utilization, but spend the money for higher quality tools that you use on a regular basis (drills, hand tools) or you will buy a new one every year.

And, as a few others have implied, if you are attending 5 events this year, you are probably one of the top budgeted teams in FIRST.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

I just wanted to note that I've fronted the whole budget for our team the last two years, and have been (slowly) paid back as we raised money. We attend one regional and our FTC championships in Atlanta. An FRC team attending five events who PAYS their mentors doesn't -- frankly speaking -- generate much sympathy when it comes to finances. I suggest you count your blessings and ship some of your extra money our way!

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

FYI: By paid, we mean the school gives them a small stipend ($5000) since they are the advisor of a school club (our mentor worked it out, for as much time she puts into the program its about $2.00 per hour)

The stipend does not come out of our budget. Only our two school mentors get "paid".

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Wow.

5 events, and paid mentors, and can't find the money for parts for your robot?

Considering the limit on robot cost, ONE regional entry fee should be more than enough.

Or, considering that 99% of the mentors out there work for absolutely nothing, perhaps your two mentors that are getting paid could each donate $2500, take the tax write-off, and fund you.

Our team has 4 big-name sponsers and we stretch doing 2 regionals and an off season event or two. I'm horribly jealous :o .

With regards to student costs, are you aware that most big name teams require a SIZEABLE fee to participate each year, sometimes on the order of $1k or more?

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Teachers being paid a stipend for participation in an extracurricular activity is not unusual. I'd be remarkably surprised if a sizeable number of teachers involved in FIRST teams do not receive a similar stipend.

The rest of us, however, are overworked for free. :)

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Here's a thread on stipends. There may be others if anyone wants to search.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

When my husband taught at the school where our team is, he received a SMALL stipend but it was by no means anywhere near $5,000!!! In fact, it wasn't even $1,000. Now that he teaches at a different school, he receives no compensation whatsoever. Nor do I, nor did any of our mentors this year. We attend one regional each year and were lucky enough last year to qualify and go to Atlanta (thanks to last minute fundraising and our two main sponsors kicking in some extra dough). For next year, the students are planning fundraising already so that we can either attend two regionals or one regional and the Championship event. I can't even think of the possibility of going to 4 regionals and the Championship!!! Especially because, given the situation of our team, it would be impossible for us to ask team members to fund the cost of the trip themselves (except for having them fundraise, of course). Consider yourself lucky, count your blessings, and have fun in Atlanta!

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

There's an old joke in Boy Scouting: the professionals get paid, the Scouts pay for themselves, and the volunteers pay for the privilege. I don't really have any idea how much extra it has cost my wife and I for being volunteers with youth programs. It's a lot more than the average, non-involved parent pays, that's for sure -- the poor suckers. They don't know what they are missing. :]

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Trust me as a former scoutmaster I understand. Just keep track of all your expenses for tax deductions. Good records are like gold.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

I see your second Montclair school team, 1929, only went to one official event this year, whereas, last year they were able to attend 3 official events.
Do you share resources or are you independently funded and equipped?


One possible source of material is businesses that are getting rid of excess inventory. Not materials dealers, but companies in other lines of business.
Talk to manufacturers in industrial parks. Usually they have a trade association of some sort with a monthly or quarterly meeting that you can address.
We were able to get a few hundred pounds of aluminum this year from such a company. We distributed most of it to local teams. One rookie team built their robot entirely from the stuff.

(1 hour a week they said...)

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Why not only go to 3 regionals and invest the money you save in a Mill, or metal? Not really seeing a big problem here...

That's more than even some coaches for several sports programs make at some high schools...And 5K isn't that small...

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

I don't know if this will help much, but I will try!
The team I currently mentor (while trying to be a college student - which many people do :) ) Has some similar problems as you.
But, the team I came from in highschool had an interesting way of raising money. The highschool students would visit local businesses and ask for their support. Students would try to raise $500 or visit at least 10 businesses. It sounds like a pain in the butt, but it really works and helps to offset some cost!
Now, many teams are structured differently. But I am sure you will figure something out. In most cases, the students will pay for some of the travel because it is not reasonable at times for it to come out of a teams budget. It can be frustrating and annoying, but there isn't much that can be done other than trying to get more sponorship and doing some sorts of fundraising (look throughout the rest of the fundraising thread for ideas!)

As for the stipend, it is great that your school is willing to do this. Some teams have volunteers and some use stipends. Maybe you could talk to other teachers in the school and see if you can get more involvement - then it would make it easier and spread the amount of things to do between more than one person.

Good luck and let me know if you need anything else!

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Wait... 5 events? So what's the problem again?

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

That was exactly my point:confused:

The way I see it, its common sense to get money out of those regionals and invest it in a mill or metal.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

never hurts to make the same point multiple times to emphasize a point:cool:

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

I am a college student who is helping to mentor the high school team I was a member of. I originally thought I wanted to major in engineering, but after working for a while, I realized that I wanted to go in to education. Most of this reason has to do with FIRST and the rush I get from helping students to excel in something they are interested in. When I become a teacher some day (hopefully), I hope to continue to work with a first team or to create one and as I see it right now, there is no amount of money I would accept to do a job I LOVE to do for free. If someone offered me money to work with a FIRST team, I would get that money in the hands of the team, not myself.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Matt, it sounds to me like you will be a great teacher! The engineering profession's loss is the teaching profession's gain. My husband is an engineer-turned-teacher, and he couldn't be happier with his career choice. Best of luck to you!

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Source?

I've never heard of any team requiring students to pay more than like $50.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Travel might be lumped into his figure; our kids had to pay $100 to go to Chesapeake.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Or partner with other local teams to do this, much like we do with the four founding Northeast Ohio FIRST Robotics Alliance teams....

Amazing what can be accomplished when you swallow a wee bit of your pride and talk with the team the next town over....

We require ours to pay a $150 activity fee per person, but this can be lowered to nothing if the student takes ownership in the team's sustainability by assisting with fundraising efforts.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

We pay no entry fee. But we do require students to pay some money towards travel to regionals/nationals.

This year it was $50 for the Wisconsin Regional and $150 for Atlanta.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Ok so I have a few suggestions. To get money for your students for hotels and things like that, then have fundraisers in the summer time and in the fall that will go directly to student trips. If the student does not participate then they don't get a cut in the money made. And my other suggestion is to really look into corrporate sponsors. Even if you don't have a huge corrporate sponsor, its ok because all the little ones add up in the end. Getting money and support for teams has to be one of the hardest parts of participating in FIRST, but in the end all that hard work pays off.
If you have any questions about sponsorship and fundraising leave me a message and I will be more than willing to help.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

There's a big difference between requiring a fee for "participating", and requiring a fee for travel.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

I think its actually a fairly uncommon thing for teams to have CNC Machines or even standard bridgeport mills. The only reason my high school team had one was because our school had it for a machine shop class, and it somehow ended up being used for our robot. Many of the teams I work with in Boston (about 5) don't even have any sort of heavy machinery-just hand drills and a small drill press.

As for the money issue:

I think part of the problem is the team doesn't really have much of an organized budget. You should assess what you need, what you think you could use in the future, and what you want to do for regionals and traveling.

Its kind of frustrating me that people are saying that going to 5 events is ridiculous (trust me, I agree) but not saying why it could be a bad idea or the benefits of going to less competitions. Going to 4 regional competitions this year may seem like a good idea at the time, but how does that really help the future of the team? Because it seems like $12,000 could be spent elsewhere (if your team just goes to one regional and Atlanta). Going to less competitions can help to offset the costs for travel for each team member (allowing more students to participate!) and can save money for the team to do cool stuff in the future. Instead of going to so many regionals, consider doing a lot of off-seasons instead! They are a lot less money, and sometimes a lot more fun!

Using some of the money elsewhere like investing in a new set of tools or spare parts for off season projects and things like that can really build the foundation for future years.

As for the approaching business aspect, here are some tips:
1. Get the parents involved! A lot of parents have either friends or colleagues in local businesses who may be interested in helping out. Connections are always helpful.
2. HAVE A PLAN:
-Make a promotional packet to bring to these businesses. Showing up to
organized and professional can help lots!
-Show these business what you are about! invite them to demonstrations, show them how FIRST has impacted students, then they are more likely to give you money.


hope some of this helps :)

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Check out teams like ThunderChickens (217) and Rush (27). Or our team, IMPI Robotics 1025 - we have a $100 participation fee, plus at least $400 more in fundraising.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

I am curious as stated before on why you folks have not invested more on infrastructure, electing instead to attend 4 regionals and CMP. I initially assumed that you folks had all that stuff, since anyone paying well over 20k for registration fees alone would have so much more.
Putting effort on sustainability, diversification, and growth will lead to gains in any program.......thus a business entrepreneurship plan.:D
I think we probably spend the most every year for travel, however, we would never compromise any other parts of our program with those kinds of expenses.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

I feel the same way, I intend to mentor a team when I can mange to, but unless you want to come to Jersey and mentor the team we still are trapped with supervisors who need the money/ don't share your sentiments.
This is going to be quite lengthy because I intend to respond cumulatively.
1- Paid Mentors- we have little choice because our program is linked to the school. With out paying the mentors we would not be allowed to use the school's space and the few tools we do have are not even ours but the schools. We do have a volunteer mentor and he is a tremendous help but we do not have the connections to get volunteer mentors and have a place to work and tools to work with.
2-Harbor freight/discount- it is a great option for some things but the quality is just so poor it really won't save you any money. We tried it for end mills and ended up spending the same amount of money as one good on three low quality ones that dulled really fast.
3-1929- We do and don't share a budget; we split what we get from the school and the fees for the mentors. After that, we have our sponsors and they have theirs. However, working in the same room on the same tools does mean that we order things cross budget For instance they order some steel and we need some we will tack on our order, but next time it will be on our account. They only competed at New York because that is all they could afford; we brought them with us down to Trenton because they enjoy the events as we do.
4-Student cost- our students pay for the whole deal (minus registration to event) including the mentor's costs. Usually this runs over a grand, usually being years we go to one or two regionals, but this year it was insane! Over 3 grand for the trips, the only saving grace was we were supposed to have scholarships from sponsors.
5-5 Competitions- Yeah we knew it was a horrible idea as soon as we were told, but it wasn't our choice. We afforded that slew of trips because of the surplus growing in our budget over our 8 years, now it's gone and I'm asking on what other teams do to stay afloat.
456 as long as we can afford it we will definitely be back, we had a blast in Louisiana.
6- Fundraisers- (hey finally something related to my original question) we have tried a few kinds of fundraisers and they always fail, meaning we are more in the hole then before. I wondered if anyone had types of fundraisers that work well for their team. Christine thanks for the idea about local businesses. We will probably try that over the summer, toss the robot in a pick-up and drive around to businesses in our area.

I definitely agree about building a better infrastructure; but I have no idea how to do that. Every other year we had money to add to our surplus and we knew if anything major came up we could deal with it but that security blanket is gone now. We already scheduled a meeting about ideas for fundraising after Atlanta and next years leaders have realized we can't spend our money on what is fun or shiny just because it will mean we have fun for a moment. My big question is how do I get the students and mentors to work together comprehensibly on our purchase decisions and focus' for expenditures?

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Let's see...School district said "Oh look, money in the robotics team account! If they don't use it, they lose it." Is that what happened with the surplus? If so, then I don't exactly blame you.

As for fundraisers...
There are all sorts of ideas in the fundraising section. Car washes, pasta dinners, raffles, golf tournaments, and the like. The odd garage sale works too.

How to build an infrastructure...
If you have a bit of surplus (other than say $6K), then you get one thing. Repeat whenever you have the budget. Donated equipment is nice too, if it's in decent shape. It'll build up over time.

Getting the team to work together on this...
You're going to have to tell them that they're going to have to think about where their money is going. That's just the way it is. If you don't need it, then don't get it. Sure it's fun to go to more competitions, but where does it get you in the long run? Maybe one extra competition and a small mill would have been a better route.

The best way for this is to go into lessons learned this year. If they can apply those, then they'll be in good shape.

Re: Low sponsorship, but ok money
 

Fundraisers have to have an enormous amount of upfront planning to be successful...

We did a simple spaghetti dinner this year.... as we shopped around we got nearly all of the supplies for free... parents chipped in doing cooking and planning and decorating.

We added a small auction of some simple things like old t-shirts and framed and autographed team portraits... and we auctioned off the services of the team members to do yard or garage clean up...

We also added a dessert auction. We got several desserts donated and parents brought in their "dessert baskets" These were also auctioned off...

In the end we made a profit of nearly $8000... primarily due to the good pre-planning and the efforts of parents... This money was split among all the student that worked the fundraiser... and it counted toward the money that each student must fundraise to travel with the team..

On our team... each regional requires the fundraising of $250... this covers travel expenses and other sundries... For Atlanta we also require an additional $250.

Because we are so far away from Atlanta, we require students to pay for their own airfare to CMP. Fundraising pays for hotel expenses and registration but students have to pay only for airfare when required. We also only have juniors and seniors travel to Atlanta. This gives Freshman and Sophomores 2 years to start their airfare fundraising.

Fundraisers must be planned very well to be successful...
This requires the help of a parent booster club... so establishing one of these is very important...

I hope this helps!!!