NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

As supected the 2009 FRC Controler is from NI. It is a National Instraments Compact RIO. It is based on the CRIO-9074, it has a 400 Mhz Processor, 128 MB RAM, 8 Slot Chassis, VXWorks :-). More Details can be found here:

http://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-1662

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Leaked a little early, thanks for the update!!!!

802.11 support including wireless debugging
Programmable in C and NI Labview
Real-time vision processing

I can't wait to see the presentations and information that comes out tomorrow to see what this thing can really do.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

USB joysticks and the ability to map track and record its movements, gives a whole new outlook on autonomous :ahh:

http://www.youtube.com/nifirstrobotics

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Wow... This is awesome! I really can't wait the 3 hours to see it being shown off now =D

802.11 communication sounds great... no more radio problems!

The entirely modularized design is so interesting. I can't wait to play with it next year.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Wow. Just getting up for the day here at Sheraton Atlanta Hotel and wanted to check the times for the sneak peek and you guys ALREADY found it :D:D Can't wait!! Looks to be a very nice compact system. Notice the input voltage 19v to 30v?? We going to be running a 24v system??

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

more info
http://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-1663
http://www.slideshare.net/nifirstrob...ller-training/
second slide is a pic of frc robot with new system

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

The youtube video on this page reminds me of the "Powerthirst" video.:D

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

I cannot wait to put this in the the hands of my students. This is VERY exciting.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

One thing I found interesting is here; the motors in the picture on the second slide are being powered by Victors. Of course, they're also running AndyMark omniwheels in the picture, but it might be a point of data. (I haven't seen anything about how they're driving motors with this system, though I did just wake up.)

I'm not seeing a lot of information about the OI side of things in these documents, other than the mention of a graphical dashboard (and one shot of what looks like a dongle in LabVIEW). I'm kinda hoping for more information here (and for someone else's laptop to go in the alliance station if the laptops are the ones running the show, if this year's hybrid period was any indication).

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

I wonder if we can buy one early? This is a close match... $3k?! Without any add on modules and without a development kit. FIRST just got a whole lot more expensive :rolleyes:

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

I have a feeling FIRST is getting a break on the price for this new system, Mike.
PS: that's the larger model for "high end" applications. I bet we are going to get the 4 slot model starting at ~$700.
http://sine.ni.com/nips/cds/view/p/lang/en/nid/14156

Or is that just the chassis?

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

:yikes: Wow, that video is really amusing. Look's like we'll be having mini robotic meetings through out the day talking about it.

Renee

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

If you combine Pat's video with Mike's prices -- reminds me of Crazy Eddie -- "His prices are insane!" (Look at those great computers in the second photo!)

But I agree, we'll be getting a lower priced custom module. Should be fun.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Ruggedness such that we can reuse the same controller year after year?

I'm curious to know if they are considering not giving us a new controller each year? It's a nice luxury...

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkft479ARTk

OH MY GOD! THIS IS MY DREAM COME TRUE!!!!!!!1111oneone lim(sin(x)/x) x->0

I can die in peace now!

I AM SO EXCITED!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D

JACOB!!!!~~!~!!

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

WOW

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

It's running the same operating system that Spirit and Opportunity uses. Heh.. I was right when I guessed that FIRST was trying to unify the three programs.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

just saw the webcast...speechless...amazing!!!

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

looks good from the webcast although they didn't get the tracking to work to shoot at the target. I wonder how much it weighs compared to the whole old system, it looks like it might be bigger also?

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

wow. I wish I could play around with the new system now. You can only image where the games will be going now with the new control system.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

There is an operator interface Also, Victors may be used next year according to this. Aparently, there was no animosity between FIRST and IFI.
No. It's the controller that Mike linked to according to the above FAQ.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

I so want one of these :D
I can see an arena control system that is almost purely software based, maybe another NI controller in the arena control box. :)

I hope the price is real cheap for FIRST Teams.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

I've played around with a cRio as part of my Robotics course this semester, and they are pretty awesome. I think teams are going to have a good time developing complex software based on top of these. LabView takes a few days to get used to, but its very powerful and allows you to think about your code in a very different way than writing C. I think next year we're going to see robots doing things in autonomous no one ever could have imagined with the current control system.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Assuming it is an 8-slot and it wasn't weight optimized for FIRST:

Weight (8-slot, typical w/ modules) : 2.48kg (5.46 lb)
Dimensions (8-slot) 274 by 88.1 by 88.1 mm (10.79 by 3.47 by 3.47 in.)

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

I'll answer my own question:

from

http://first.wpi.edu/2009_FRC_Controller_FAQ_FINAL.pdf

Not that I think it's a huge deal, but it was very nice accumulating more than a few sets of controls over the years at no extra charge. Prototyping and practice robots became much easier to do.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Is there video of Dean Kamen introducing it?

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Supposedly the videos will be up on FIRST's website around noon.

-Mike

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Check out the stuff in the lower righthand corner of this page:

http://first.wpi.edu/FRC/cstechnical.html


All of the components with High-res images are there!!!

And regarding weight,
This is the most exciting day of my life.
-Jacob

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

That sound you heard was the jaws of my students hitting the floor.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

The WPI demo robot is very cool.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Does anyone know if this is mac and linux compatible. I know that there is a Labview IDE for mac os x, but is there a compiler for the new control board

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Hmmm... If it's using 802.11, I wonder what effect that will have on in-pit wireless networks (I wonder if it is why they weren't allowed in Atlanta)

Cool system though. I hope I'm near a team next year so I can play with it some.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

The docs suggest there will be a different wireless modem for the competition.

I do hope that whoever provided the answers in the FAQ isn't engineering the wireless. 802.11 does NOT have 11 clear channels. There are only 3 non-overlapping channels in 802.11b/g.

Also the estimated date of availability to teams "KICKOFF", suggests that this program has already seriously slipped. That's not an estimate - its a drop dead deadline.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

man, this is gonna be hge, have any of you guys thought of the posibilities?

too bad that we can't program ahead now, due to the whole system changing. doe sthis mean we only have 6 weeks to really get programming done?

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

They are talking alot about how rugged the controller is... but it looks like every other component is exposed. Like the Power distribution, IO, Digital side car are basically just electrical boards. Hopefully these arn't the final product, the controller looks sweet and all.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

One thing I am extremely exited about is the new power distribution block. Last year the PDB was the bane of our teams existence.
Thats something that worries me about the new OI/Driver Station. Theres absolutely no protective housing. Though from the picture here http://first.wpi.edu/FRC/driverstation.html, I don't see any of the bottom buttons or headers labeled, making me think there will eventually be an enclosure for it.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

If you dig down to the photos you will see that there are fairly well insulated cases for everything. Electrically, its now a kitbot and FRC will now be a field of LABVIEW demobots.

It remains to be seen whether there will be any viable C/C++ platform possible for 2009. Certainly not if you can't get your hands on anything until kickoff.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

here is the pic of a temp case for the driver station
http://first.wpi.edu/driver_station_in_temp_case.jpg

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

We can all hope that they did something similar to when we switched controllers in 2004.

Teams received the EDU-RC which was a smaller footprint version of the new RC. It was functionally the same, and would later become the foundation of the VEX controller.

Based on today's FTC announcement, one would wonder if we couldn't do the same with the new FTC controller? I haven't heard much on that front... but if they use the same programming toolchain, it could happen.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

The two architectures are completely different. It appears the only commonality would be through labview.

You can get started with the new FRC control system stuff now. The following are current prices:

cRIO 9074 - $2999
Power Supply & Cables $249
9201, 9403, and 9472 Modules and Cables $1219
Subtotal Total Hardware $4467

Software:

Labview for Windows $4099
Labview Real-Time Module $2499
Labview FPGA Module $2499

Subtotal Software $9097

Total $13,564

The above doesn't include the custom undocumented digital sidecar so the above would only get you started on the tool chain and sensor platforms.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

MK, thought out of the blue.

I remember on one of the Control System prediction forms, someone from intelitek said that they couldn't say intelitek's involvement for next years control system, but that they were very excited about it....

Have we heard anything about easyC?

Jacob

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

You are correct that 802.11b/g only have 3 clear channels. However, the FAQ did not say b or g were being used. Other 802.11 variants (such as 802.11a) do have 11 non-overlapping clear channels.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Also doesn't include the "bumps" for the i/o modules or the cable for the digital side car, or the wireless access point listed as part of the cRIO-FRC kit.

Discounting is steep - to start NI offers 30% discount for 100 or more of same config ordered in a 1 year period. Going to 4 slot chassis from 8 saves $300. The FPGA size is one of the more sensitive pieces. Going from a 1M to 3M FPGA is an increase of $1700.

But anyway you slice it, this is an expensive piece of hardware. If teams want a 2nd one for proto work, its going to put a serious dent in the budget. This could become a factor between have and have-not teams in terms of which have deep pockets and are able to afford a 2nd controller setup unless teams are able to order a cRIO-FRC at discounted price. Of course, if teams can come up with ~$4000 needed now to purchase one they could go that route. But, without the pwm breakout board (digital sidecar), it would be difficult to build a fully functioning robot.

Debug is either via LabVIEW or Wind River IDE. But in order to use Wind River Workbench IDE you need a full license for the WR IDE -- but that isn't listed on the description of what's included in the new controller set.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

It's actually not $4000. The academic price is significantly cheaper but still would put a dent in the budget.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

I was looking at some stuff on WPI, and I'm wondering about something. Looking at the driver station, I noticed that there are some extra pins for digital input, digital output, and analog. What are these meant for? Are they meant for custom buttons and switches to control our robots?

I want to make sure I know how things are hooked up. If one end of a PWM cable goes into a Victor speed controller, where does the other end go? Does it go into the SideCar? If so, where? If not, does it go right into the analog module? What about for Spike relays? It would be really disappointing to have a well-built robot that can't do a darn thing because it's not hooked up properly.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

WindRiver Workbench is being provided as a development environment. Wind River is the company that produces vxWorks, the realtime OS that is running on the new controller. I know that workbench works on multiple hosts (Unix, Linux, Windows). It remains to be seen exactly what sort of support we get for this from Wind River, but I've asked my contacts there to look into it.

It would be really cool if we get access to Wind River tools beyond the IDE for compilation. With just the compilation support, we would get static code analysis, and incremental build support. Windriver has additional tools for memory leak detection, code profiling, and real time diagnostics.

Check out WindRiver.com for info about what might be possible. In particular the scope tools (Memscope, Profilescope, Stethoscope).

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

You do realize that EVERYONE just found out exactly what this thing is today? Wait for time to pass until manuals are printed and sent out or links to the product manuals. You could always visit NI and read about the overall platform.

-Mike AA

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

the old one aesthetically looked sexier, and i got it tattooed on me, im not getting any new control sysytem tattoos any time soon :p but im glad we are moving in the fast lane.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Ouch! OK, I surrender. You win the award for most commitment to the IFI control system. :eek:

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

From the FAQ from http://first.wpi.edu/FRC/csoverview.html :

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

the only thing that worries me os that, if new RC's dont get shipped out before kickoff for teams to learn, there's gonna be a lot of powerhouse teams really lagging behind.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

For the life of me, I swore I saw that there will be a 2 hour training session for the new control system at 5pm today down in Atlanta. I can't remember where I saw this. Am I hallucinating, or does anyone else know what I'm talking about?

More importantly, is this going to be webcast? Or available online at a later date?

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Yes, I do realize that. I just wanted to express my questions/concerns, and I wanted to know how everyone else thinks this goes together. I didn't expect a definitive answer from anyone, except if that person has some knowledge of how the cRIO works, say, a person affiliated with NI or someone who worked with the demo robots this morning.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

While I'd love to see them using 802.11a, I've never seen a reference to 802.11a that involved 11 non-overlapping channels. IIRC it's 8 in North America and 4 in Asia, at least for legal operations. I guess we'll know soon enough.

I do hope they are not intending to operate AP's in the robots and that these boxes will be client side bridges.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Chasing down the wires in this picuture: http://first.wpi.edu/FRC/cstechnical.html

It would appear that the victors are connected to the Sidecar

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Yeah, I wondered about that, too. This picture indicates an AP.

Can anyone who is in Atlanta now and has seen the demonstrations confirm that?

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Initial impressions....

I like the power and the ability to do floating point and wireless downloading. The ability to realtime monitor everything without printf's will make debugging much easier as quicker as well and that will allow for a quicker development cycle. That power and ease is coming at an expense, though.

It comes in at just over 5+ pounds for just the cRio, not including the bumpers and digital sidecar. I think people are going to be surprised when they actually get this thing in their hands and realize they just lost a couple pounds of potential robot compared to the old system.

System placement is likely to be more difficult as well. With the slim form factor of the existing equipment, I've made the comment several times to the mechanical team that they can do anything they need to do and we'll work around it - not so anymore.

Those are all small gripes though - because the system looks pretty awesome. My biggest worry is the software we're going to start out with. If we don't have ready-made function blocks for the wiz-bang "auton recording" and image recognition - along with functions like the gyroscope, quadrature encoders, etc, many teams are going to have a very very difficult time. I'd wager 1/2 the teams couldn't do what they do now without Kevin or other's code to help them. The lack of time with a C IDE is going to hurt a lot of teams.

If you haven't done Labview before, it's a total shift in thinking when you program. I'm not sure I like being semi-locked into the environment. IF that is what ends up happening.

The teams who can afford to pony up the $$'s for the extra system for a practice bot are going to be hugely ahead of the curve next year. The handful that can pony up cash for a system right now are going to be downright scary.

So - I'm excited about the potential, but nervous about potentially being locked into a development environment that I've never been particularly fond of. I wonder - how many school have classes with Labview.....

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

From the tech specs on the sidecar it appears that it provides the pwm drivers and power for the PWM's (when connected to servos). It looks like it may also have 8 relay drivers and 14 TTL GPIO's. In other words, its basically most the present controller except for the $15 PIC.

The SPI which is marked (SPI/I2C) is a mystery. Hopefully this goes to a hardware based SPI and I2C controllers so there can be some hope of $50 instead of $500 sensors.

It's very nice to see friction lock connectors on the PWM. Too bad this didn't extend to the other I/O's. It's for 2009 afterall, hotglue shouldn't be required to keep wires from falling out ;)

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

You're not crazy. The two hour training session (for mentors) was announced in an email blast from FIRST, linked in another thread.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

this should be a plug in module, not an add-on....I wonder if they're working on it? The slideshow seems to indicate that the sidecar is a prototype...we can hope...

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

That's an engineering tradeoff. As much as I loved the old system it was fairly fragile. This thing seems invincible to anything we can do to it.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

I share nearly all of your sentiments.

I don't consider the proprietary Labview Real-Time environment to be anything even close to mainstream and it appear that all of FIRST is now wedded to the Labview programming paradigm. I see little more than lip service to the C/C++ development possibilities. We'll see what shows up in the next few weeks.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Its now well past noon and there still aren't any videos of the revealing. Were the only videos the ones already posted. Did anyone watch the webcast earlier today on curie and record it?

-Mike

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

guys, relax :-)

We have a pretty darned cool new system in the works. A lot of my fears have been laid to rest. programing will come in time. They have already said that we will be able to use C/C++ to program. I have no doubt that the FRC community will be get to work and figure out a fantastic library of code for everyone to use within one year of release. I know some of the older, more established teams are worried about losing ground to younger team. Isn't a more even playing field, no matter how short lived it is, a good thing?

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

This new system is gonna be awesome! I really liked the old IFI system, but I really think this new system is gonna be better. I'm really excited for wireless debugging over wi-fi. Also, from a perspective of preparing for our future, National Instruments is a very big company with a lot of presence in the engineering field, and this system will prepare us for the future where we will all probably work with National Instruments products.

All the features sound great, but my one question is, theoretically, if the control system was on and connected to a 802.11 hotspot, could you have your laptop connected to a 802.11 hotspot and use the wi-fi to wirelessly program the control system? And I'm not thinking of across the room programming, I'm thinking of the laptop and robot being in separate hotspots programming, let's just say, the robot is in Detroit and the laptop is in Atlanta! I know that similar things have been done in different fields, but did NI put that capability into the system?

Overall, this will be quite a leap forward with FIRST, I only wish I could have seen the testbed robot in Atlanta (but no, I had to listen to a boring health lecture!) ;)

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

From blowing up the pictures the $50 sidecar hooks into a 9203 module ($349 list) using a $149 (List) cable. The module provides 32 i/o's which is what the 10 + 8 + 14 add up to.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Hmm, so we could take a mechanical pit crew to the actual competition venue, while the programmers go to Starbucks and fix all the software problems from there?:cool:

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Finally somebody understands how I roll.:p

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

The other thing with the weight is who says it is 5 less pounds of robot than can be used? Did anyone think FIRST might have noticed the weight differences. Perhaps the weight limit will be raised 5 lbs. next year to offset the increase.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

PREDICTION TIME!!!!!!

my prediction:
in previous years (including this year), elite teams have been defined by mostly previous experience, mechanical design, and some software development. with this new PLC running the robot, for the most part, i'd say the majority of teams will be somewhat in the dark until one is shipped out. next year, i predict that what will make or break all of the veteran teams (therefore leveling the playing field) will be how well they can learn this new system.

for rookie teams, things shouldn't be much different, as they still have to learn the entire system. but, for non-rookie teams, i know for me, the biggest challenge will be learning the new system, essentially putting me in the same position as a rookie team. for this year, at least, i think EVERY team, rookie or not, will have EXACTLY the same chance (or better odds) at success, which, in my opinion, is AWESOME!!

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Regarding the speed controllers being hooked up to the SideCar:
That's fine, but what do we do with the pins on the analog input module? I doubt it's supposed to be a non-functional decoration...
http://first.wpi.edu/analog_bumper_side_in_case.jpg

And I have a feeling that some party will release default code as a starting point for novice teams. Not starting everyone with some code to work with would create a huge imbalance between some teams, and I don't think FIRST wants that. Someone is going to write default code to start people off. Gracious professionalism. Need I say more?

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Looks like a busy summer for the mentors..Start putting together your programming and electrical curriulums now.

Brian

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

I assume you meant 9403 not 9203?

Anyways...my vague point was that it seems a bit odd to use a controller that requires plug in modules for I/O, and these plug in modules require further custom plug in modules to actually interface with the stuff on the robot.

I guess it simulates the research world pretty well, but not the consumer product world.

Fortunately we're a bright bunch of folks and we'll make it work!

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

About the playing field being leveled is true.

It's kind of a bummer that this came out now for us. Just after we get used to working with the IFI system, a new system comes out. It really doesn't help that our team is so small, and we are going to lose all of our programmers because they graduate this year and are going to colleges out of state. :ahh: I'm gonna work really hard on learning C and how to program this system over the summer, because I think that next season, the teams that perform really well well be the ones who can master this code during the off-season.

Hopefully the summer will be enough to get a grasp on this! :(

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Input analog things? Potentiometers, gyros, accelerometers, etc.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

That has already begun, well tried to begin:) Still waiting on the training videos. In time, they will be up.

My biggest question right now is, what ver. of LABView will we be using and where can we get our hands on a copy soon. If it is the same as was in the 2008 KOP, cool, if not, then we will need it soon.

BTW, did you notice on the sidecar that the PWM connectors are completely different. Time to stock up on new pins and connectors.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Looking forward to comparing notes...I'm not familiar with NI's product but have developed PLC's SLC's and RIO for Allen Bradley. Should be interesting..

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Your right - I meant 9403.

The PWM's and servos generally need higher current drivers as well as the power source for the servos. I think their idea is to keep only standard NI components plugged into the chassis with all non-NI parts external.

Yes is this is more like a platform for research/academia but also suited for one-offs and low volume which, after all, is what we are.

There is no question that it's neat hardware. The open issue is how well it can help achieve the mission of first when a hands-on controller is $6K instead of $300.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Oh, yeah. After all, it's an analog input module, so its purpose would be to receive data. The PWM cables that hook up to speed controllers would be output.

I guess I was worried about how all the data would be transferred. There's only so much you can do with 37 pins. But hey, the tether cable we've been using for the past few years only required 9 pins to transmit all that data. Why am I worrying so much?

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

I don't think the issue is at all about level playing fields. It's about how each teams program can adjust if possible to such a major change. The most scary thing is:
At first glance it looks like we use LABVIEW or skip the 2009 season. Use LABVIEW in FTC or forget about synergies. I hope very much that this isn't the case but it sure looks like it from the available information.

Some teams need to make budgets and other program decision in the next few months. Some teams need to decide how many FTC - how many FRC (if any) or how many in other programs. Hopefully we will see more information soon to allow such decision to be made.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

I am excited about the new controller I think it will make the FIRST competition better in the long run but next year I feel will have several major headaches.

Namely do we know what company is manufacturing the custom parts for us like the bumper modules, driver station, and the sidecar?
These prototype cases and modules all seem slightly flimsy compared to the 50g shock rated cRIO.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Would you be surprised to find out it only used 3 wires: Tx, Rx and gnd.:yikes:

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Why do you honestly think you won't be able to program in C? As far as I can tell there is just as much information about the Labview programing as there is programing in C/C++.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Yes. I would be.

Thanks, everyone, for answering most of my questions.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

on a side note, it was either on the FIRST website or the NI site, but there will be a special version of LabVIEW available for teams next year to use with this.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

No IEEE 802.11 b/g has 11 channels in the U.S. and Canada. The reason you cannot use them all at once is that adjacent channels overlap this gives you 6 channel that can be run on top of each other. Or sequenced overlap of 1,3,5,7,9,11,2,4,6,8,10 in one dimension.
or
____1
__3___5
7___9___11
__4___2
____6
in two dimensions

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

The PWM connectors require the exact same cabling as before. They just have the added benefit of friction-based locking. Also, notice that there are lots of vast lengths of space in between the connectors.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

There are only 3 NON-OVERLAPPING CHANNELS for b/g because the channels are 5 MHz wide and 802.11b/g occupies a little more than 20mhz. The channel number refers to the center frequency. You can use center frequency on channels 1, 6, 11 without mutual interference. Some 802.11n signals are 40 Mhz wide. The channels for 802.11a are 10 mhz wide and every other channel can be used to provide 8 NON-Overlapping channels.

In 802.11b/g in the U.S. you can use any of 11 channels you like as your center frequency but there will be interference with other stations using channels less than 5 from you channel. That is not to say that running say 6 access points on 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, and 11 won't work - they will work but there will be mutual interference, retransmissions, etc.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

They said 11 and 11 usually means 11... They'll release the details with time just wait a little bit.

Also don't just think of the US there are teams in Israel, Puerto Rico, Chile, Brazil, Netherlands, Great Britain, and hopefully more next year.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

WOW, this is what i wanted, but not at all what I expected. How do they expect me to wait until next year for this. Any one else excited about the FPGA possibilities? I hope we will be able to do the verlog an VHDL with out too much abstraction. I guess its time to roll out the grants and start writing.

Teaching this to the rest of the team and learning it my self is going to be a challenge more so then last year, I just hope I wont have to run build again this year. This could be a year where the programing makes or breaks it for teams.

This system is going to up the cool factor when showing it off the companies, it just looks more cutting edge with the wires and stuff hanging out like they do.

Did i say FPGA?
FPGA

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

I'm really excited about the FPGA too. Finally, we will be able to have our encoders produce way too many interrupts per second, and not have to worry about bogging down the controller because the FPGA can handle most anything we can throw at it. Not to mention 400 Mhz with a FPU.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

so i totally took the time to check that limit...i hope im not the only one...

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

So I happen to have the sticker in nightfall's sig on my right palm rest, and I was wondering if I will be able to program with my Ubuntu machine. The Windriver website says the software runs on redhat, but Ubuntu is on a different package system than redhat. I don't know if alien would convert it or if there is copy protection on it or what...

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Thanks for clarifying. It looked like an entirely different connector to me.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

I'm just excited to see how they are going to fit a Hummer and an eight story building on the 27' x 54' field.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

now we can all start drooling over the game possibilities for next year :p

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

I am 90% sure that it is a bin package, so no problem there long as your libs are up to date.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Does anyone know anything more about the vision processing?

Framerate?
Resolution?
Color or black-and-white?
Color based tracking or higher level (geon-based, SIFT, etc)?
Does it use the FPGA?

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

. . umm WOW . . just WOW . . crazy.

Love the power of this thing. love the new power distro block . .and it looks to me like the OI will be my new best friend.

but I have a few questions #1 will it be that big come next year( cause it is HUGE compared to what we have now and we already have a hard time placing things where they need to go). #2 do I have to use all those blocks as shown or just what we want to use. #3 I know it can take a 50G shock but is it water proof? and #4 when can I get my hands on one of these?

ohh and 5 gold stars to the first team that uses the 802.11 and implements a web server on their robot . . 10 gold stars if they make it a CVS server and use it to program it with.

Re: NEW 2009 Control System Released
 

Yeah I was thinking we could just program it to do its own scouting.