Re: Championship 2008 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please
 

Accually it would have to be 8 divisions because then on einstein you would have 8 alliances and a full quarterfinal. Because six would mean 3 quaterfinal matches and 3 teams in semis, and that maybe a problem.

Re: Championship 2008 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please
 

Not a bad idea:

- Move FTC to one of the GWCC halls and have four divisions. FTC is going to have more teams than FRC in the next two years, and a lot more in three years, so proper attention at Atlanta is going to be needed.

- Run FTC qualifications Thursday afternoon on through Friday night. Run FTC finals Saturday morning. This will allow FTC teams to get more qual matches and to catch the FRC finals on Saturday without having to kill Saturday morning.

- Have eight FRC divisions, with 48-52 teams each. This will allow more qualifications matches for each.

- Have two quarter-final fields running at the same time on Saturday.

- For the semifinals and finals, move to Einstein.

- Run later on Friday. It's tough on the volunteers (been there, done that) but it's critical for Saturday to run on time.

More FTC and FRC teams are accommodated (200 FTC to start, 400 FRC), and the schedule could be pretty much the same, except for FRC Friday.

I'm not married to any of these ideas, but it's interesting to think of alternatives now that the program is getting so large.

Re: Championship 2008 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please
 

not to be rude, but no one should do much complaining on how anything was laid out. The buildings are still recovering from the tornado, and because of it there was one building shut down that is normally used (car show I believe). last year they had pits for everything (FRC, FTC, FLL) in the space used for this years FRC pits and car show combined (there was a temporary wall between the two this year). I cannot speak for anything besides FRC, but I think they did a great job of cramming everything into much less space.

Re: Championship 2008 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please
 

We're talking for next year. I haven't seen any complaints about space this year. Not on venue, anyway.

Re: Championship 2008 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please
 

my bad on the 6 divisions. definitely 8 would be great and would give teams a similiar number of matches to an average sized regional.

The amount of space in total was actually much larger than in previous years.

new space - 292,500 sq.ft.
old space - 212,900 sq.ft.

FIRST, and Atlanta did a GREAT job of pulling all this together !!

Re: Championship 2008 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please
 

As a member of an FTC team I would say that Competing in the Georgia Dome is a great part of competing in Atlanta. I can take from your post that you have never been part of an FTC team. FTC is already looked down upon by FRC and some may say FIRST doesn't really care about FTC. Dean Kamen never comes into the FTC Pits. He only speaks for about 5 minutes at the opening ceremonies.

If FIRST were to move the FTC fields out of the Georgia Dome I my team would almost more than likely not attend the World Champs. Why would the team pay a $1000 entry fee, and an extra $1500 on transportation just to compete in what would just be another regional.

I'm jsut saying FTC teams do get a lot out of competing in the Georgia Dome. it's on of the few perks the FTC gets that FRC gets also.

Re: Championship 2008 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please
 

Where was Dave Lavery at ? I didn't hear or see him at all during the webcast!
Was he with 116?

Re: Championship 2008 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please
 

Go look at Rick's team number and signature. Then tell me he hasn't been part of an FTC team.

FTC is not looked down on by FRC, in fact, it is regarded as training for FRC. Or, a low-cost version of FRC.

As for moving FTC, the main reason it would happen is the FRC championship is too big or is split due to overcrowding.

Your comment about competing in the Georgia Dome reminds me of a comment made about members of some teams before 2003: "They're in it for the trip to Disney World." Do you really think that that is the end-all of FTC? If so, you have missed the point of both FRC and FTC and FLL.

Re: Championship 2008 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please
 

Last year we were just 'visitors' to the competition and I noted this issue then. We attended this year with our team and I saw this frequently -

In our section (Archimedes) we had lots of people stand thru entire matches to talk to other people in their group.

The Georgia Dome has an awesome concourse to go and stand and chat and still keep an eye on the action.

At NHL games, you are not allowed to go back to your seat when the puck is in play...you have to wait at the top of the concourse until the whistle blows.

On another note - we parked in the garage all 3 days. On Friday, the gate on the 'crossbridge' was locked when we left for the day. We had to take all of our belongings to the roof of the garage, then back down to our car. Not sure why it was locked then but the bridge gate was open every morning and every other afternoon.

Re: Championship 2008 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please
 

As usual Dave was everywhere, but this year he was also running around placing his fancy cameras in different places. I can't wait to see the results.

Re: Championship 2008 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please
 

Both FRC and FTC have there pros and cons. FRC is bigger, it's been around longer. FTC is smaller, cheaper, has not been around as long. I have not missed the point of my FTC team. I love FIRST and all the aspects of it. I think it is a great learning, bonding, networking activity for every kind to be in. I', simply blown away by the why my FTC team has changed my life. And the lack of free time I now have since I started the team at my school.

If FTC is seen as a warm up for FRC Why cant FTC get the one are in the Georgia Dome. As of now the Divinci field in in the back of the Dome not mainly seen by the crowd. A Huge plus to competing in Atlanta is the factt hat you are on the same field that the Atlanta Falcons play on and you are surrounded by thousands of seats and thousands of people. This year the FTC and FLL pits were taken away from the FRC Pits. This made the FTC pits rather boring IMO. Upon entering the FRC Pits the talk to an FRC team my FTC team went down to Atlanta with. I noticed the buzz and crazyness in the room. It seamed MUCH more cramped than last year. but it was so exciting.

I'm just trying to get my point across. Saying that the FTC teams gain nothing by competing on the field, I think you are wrong. How would you feel if they stuck each division of FRC in a separate hall of the GWCC?

Re: Championship 2008 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please
 

I'm paying attention to the FTC discussion. What I learned this past weekend, is that FTC deserves its time in the limelight to shine brightly and showcase the hard work, effort, and commitment of the students and the mentors to this program. I was in awe of the FTC teams at the Championship.

FIRST will continue to work to help improve all the competition aspects/events, I'm sure. There is always room for improvement and for flexibility in working with the growth factor of the programs. It's a good problem to have.

Several students and college mentors found their way over to the FTC and FLL pits and were astounded at what they saw. Each said that they remembered when they were on teams and could not believe the size of the pits and how awesome they were. It was pretty spectacular.

Re: Championship 2008 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please
 

Agreed - it's not like it's a secret as to who it is...
This I agree with enthusiastically. 85 or so teams is just too many, it always always always runs late. As discussed, 8 divisions - but can 8 fields be fit onto the floor of the dome? Yes, but only if Einstein is used. 2 along the straights, two along each end, and better sound systems to maintain audio separation.

I also agree with other suggestions, like some qual matches on Thursday, more time on Friday, etc.

Sure, there are some logistical issues - twice as many volunteers for one - but that's solveable.

Don

Re: Championship 2008 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please
 

I'd go anyway, if I could. It's not the location, it's the event. Would you go hang out in a drafty blimp hangar because there's a FIRST event going on there or because it's a blimp hangar? (SVR--then the California Regional--in 1999) I kind of think you're in this to be on the GA Dome floor--at least that's the impression I get from your posts.

The reason FTC is in the back is that's about the only place they can put it. Einstein (main stage) is front and center because it's where the show happens. FLL goes on there because they can pick up easily--move a dozen tables and put the field in. The corners are FRC to allow for seating. Would you rather FTC go between Einstein and, say, Curie? And fight for seating with the FRC teams? I think not!

The problem is, both FRC and FTC are growing rapidly. FRC has 84 teams per division this year. If they keep adding regionals, they won't have room for all the current teams to play. So they'll need to a) make more divisions (more fields) or b) increase the size of the divisions, which are already pretty much maxed out. (GTR has had a 2-field regional in the past. They had about the same number of teams as ONE division, as I recall.) So make more divisions, which may happen anyway to allow more matches.

Now where do you put those other divisions? On the floor, of course. There's room. But either FRC or FTC will need to move something. FTC is more easily moved, due to the fact that they can be in pretty much any height of room and FRC needs 20 feet or more in a typical year. So FTC would need to move elsewhere.

Now, if FTC were moved, they would probably wind up in the GWCC. There's a lot of room there--enough for more than two fields (and thus, more than two divisions). Not in the pits, necessarily, but in the GWCC. So FTC gets more matches, more teams, and presumably, more fun.

And the reason the FTC and FLL pits were separate this year was tornado damage and having to share space with a car show.

Re: Championship 2008 - Atlanta - Your Thoughts Please
 

I am very pleased overall with the competition. The idea of having more division fields is a wonderful idea, especially with the intent to decrease the number of teams per field. In newton, there were 85 teams and it was almost impractical for our team to scout and be scouted next to such well known teams as effectively as we have before.

As for the announcement of CA, I'm one that wishes they would of still waited till the end to announce it. I guess it goes along with "saving the best for last" and giving the CA special emphasis. The entire competition, in a way, leads up to finals, and ultimately, the chairmans award. Congratulations to both MOE and this years winners!

Side note, I loved the location of the hall of fame in the lobby along with the scholarship and vender row!