Re: If You could bring back one game, for 1 season in 09 what would it be?
 

2000, best game ever. [period] :D

Re: If You could bring back one game, for 1 season in 09 what would it be?
 

It seems like a majority of responders like the 2000 game-

maybe they should summarize their reasons why and direct them to the GDC

Some things I noticed about the 2000 game-

If there were referees there you never saw them.
The score was evident at the end of the game without a huge formula or tally of penalties.
Robots played both offense and defense.
We had fun.



Unfortunately many of the kids here on CD never knew a game like that. I remember it fondly.

WC

Re: If You could bring back one game, for 1 season in 09 what would it be?
 

Dead on correct!

The true beauty of the 2000 game was that there were a multitude of designs and strategies that were successful. Teams would specialize in hanging on the bar, teams would specialize in trying to score as many balls as possible, and teams would specialize in removal of balls from the troughs. The balance in that game, as well as the various "swing elements" such as hanging, or the black ball moving from one goal to another, made for it to be the greatest game in the history of FIRST.

I vividly remember during eliminations, watching match after match of the most exciting FIRST I have ever seen. Not just spotty in one round here and there like we saw this year...but in EVERY round.

Re: If You could bring back one game, for 1 season in 09 what would it be?
 

2000 was great. Maybe I am being sentimental because it was our rookie year, but this game was fun.
Other games have been fun too, but I also believe that 2000 is one of the few games that has everything on the list below.

Top Reasons why 2000 was awesome
1) Few Penalties Very little chance to change the game
2) Static scoring at the end of the match. Very little chance for error or controversy. (good for referees)
3) WoW factor for the audience. An ending struggle and the "I didn't know a robot could do THAT" reaction when robots hung off the bar.
4) A high and low engineering point challenge, which involved struggling teams "positively" in the outcome of the match.
5) Descoring and defense were a factor without ruining the game.
6)HUMAN PLAYER. It puts an unknown factor in the game and attracts sports minded people. Kids eyes light up when you tell them they can shoot balls.
7) Head to head high energy interaction between machines. (pushing and pinning, not smashing)


My favorite games (that we have played and not including 2008) in order are:
1) 2000
2) 2006
3) 2003
4) 2001
5) 2004
6) 2007
7) 2005
8) 2002

Re: If You could bring back one game, for 1 season in 09 what would it be?
 

oh man..... 2006 was nothing compared to some past years in terms of brutal.



As for me, I'd be happy with 2002, 2003 with revamped rules, and then 1999 and 2000 for the strategy and fun gameplay.

Also, 1993 for detachable mechanisms :D

Re: If You could bring back one game, for 1 season in 09 what would it be?
 

2007 was my first year with FIRST, so i had to pick my rookie year's game

Re: If You could bring back one game, for 1 season in 09 what would it be?
 

It's interesting how people's perception's change. I seem to remember a poll around 2001 or 2001 that showed 1999 having a small lead over 2000.

People now like the lack of penalties, but it was a big topic of debate back then. For example, here is one thread complaining about the fact that the referees didn't call enough. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=10765

Other people complained about "wussy" bumpers and wished for the rough and tumble, knock the other guy off the puck type play http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=10765

More people complained about how much the game changed between the qualification rounds and the eliminations. Look at how the "gangly" 25 slipped into the second round and then won the championship using a strategy they wouldn't dare use in the qualifications rounds. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=10765

And don't forget a huge thread about how poor the seedings were http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=10671


The game that I liked most as a strategist was 2004, but certainly wasn't easy to explain to the grandmothers of the world.

Re: If You could bring back one game, for 1 season in 09 what would it be?
 

Back in 2000, I just remember how exciting it was to watch robots fight to hang on the bar AND on each other sometimes. The Poofs and their winch was awesome!
Gotta love them Poofs!:yikes:

Re: If You could bring back one game, for 1 season in 09 what would it be?
 

Before I forget, here's a list with links to explanations of all the FIRST games back to 1992: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIRST_R...n#Competitions

I loved 2006 personally... partially because it was my FIRST FIRST year. There was so much action and anyone who walked in to watch could pretty much instantly understand what was going on. Also, the large amount of open space on the field allowed robots to get up some pretty impressive speed... resulting in some pretty impressive crashes. :ahh:

Also... the like 40/60 chance that a robot would fall over going up the ramp made things more exciting too. :yikes:

Oh... and then there were the occasional rediculus robots that year that could hold pretty much all the balls on the field at once (135) or shoot multiple balls at the same time (don't remember specific team number).

One game I wouldn't bring back was the 2007 game. Not the best game ever.

-q

Re: If You could bring back one game, for 1 season in 09 what would it be?
 

Autonomous:
Back in the year 2000 we didn't have autonomous. Maybe that was a good thing. With each new season comes a new autonomous challenge with a new gadget (IR, Camera) that works worse than the previous years gadget.

Let me diverge... as FIRST teams mature they are integrating more sensors into their robots. Let this process happen naturally. Don't begin 2009 with a new control system along with a new gadget. Give us the control system and allow us to pick our sensors. We will use a sensor that we feel comfortable using that best accomplishes the task at hand.

If I were to add an autonomous mode to 2000 I would allow each robot to start off with a ball. If they score in the first 15 seconds they get bonus points. K.I.S.S. we only have 6 weeks and the robots only have 15 seconds. Easy, simple, well understood by the audience...

Easy to Understand:
In 2000 you knew what the score was all the time. The balls were large enough to see from the stands and you could almost count the score. For an audience to know what the score is during the match adds increasing excitement to the end of the match. Penalties rarely influenced the outcome of a match...

Penalties:
True story: This year my girlfriend's parents came to see a FIRST regional for their first time. After watching the game for 1/2 an hour my girlfriends father gave me a hard time asking, "Do you guys fix these matches? I mean you see one guy score all these points and win the match and then those reffs get together and then there's a different winner."

Plain and simple: Penalties ruin games, this years penalty system sucked.

I don't remember any penalties in 2000. It was excellent. :D

Human Player:
In 2000 the human player did something useful and exciting. The human player could actually score points and change the outcome of the game. This was really exciting at the end of the game when robots were going for the hanging bar and the human player would start throwing balls over the glass. Maybe to try to knock off an opponents balls or to clinch victory at the last second.

End Game:
2000's end game- more excitement than robot nerds should be allowed to have... Everyone could get to it from the veterans to the rookies. In the final seconds of the match every robot on the field converged on the same 60 sq feet of field. Some robots wanted to get in the air others wanted to block the air from their opponents. At the same time human players would be dumping balls from the alliances station. Robots banging together, some robots going up in the air, some on the ground, human players bringin' it Celtics style. It was king of the hill, it was exciting, it was the absolute best in FIRST history.

Triple Play (2005) and FIRST Frenzy (2004)
 

I loved the 2005 edition, Triple Play. It had so much excitement being able to score on at least 9 different goals with your Tetra. My favorite moment was at the inaugural Boilermaker Regional when mighty Hammond #71 fell over in one of the finals matches but still went on to anchor the winning alliance in a 4 match finals. I have only been involved with the games since 2004 First Frenzy, which was a great game also and was our team's only regional FRC competition championship.
Dave

Re: If You could bring back one game, for 1 season in 09 what would it be?
 

If anybody has pictures or videos of 2000. That would be extremely helpful. Most of us weren't here for 2000. And it's very hard to visualize the game just from descriptions.

Re: If You could bring back one game, for 1 season in 09 what would it be?
 

How about the game manual? And, for pictures: http://technokats.org/gallery2/v/2000/comp/ and http://technokats.org/gallery2/v/2000/iri/

Re: Triple Play (2005) and FIRST Frenzy (2004)
 

I was the driver on 93 that year, and was pretty much responsible for them tipping over. Those were some of the most exciting finals I've ever seen. The building was so small and it was packed and the whole crowd was cheering at the top of their lungs for both alliances.

But back on topic i have to say that the best year in my experience since 2002 would have to be 2004. It was the last year where robots didn't all look the same and there was tons of stuff you could do. Cap the 2x ball, collect the purple balls, hang on the bar, and the human player was a huge part(which i always like). Ever since 2004 there really hasn't been to much diversity when it comes to robot design. Yes all the robots are unique but the games are becoming more narrow minded on how you play the game.

2005- cap the tetras or put them underneath the goals
2006- collect and shoot balls or put them in the lower goal
2007- hang ringers or lift robots off the ground
2008- race around the track/play with the trackball

I want to see another game where there are more than 2 ways to play the game and more than 2 ways to score so we can see some diversity between the robots.

Re: If You could bring back one game, for 1 season in 09 what would it be?
 

I have most of Saturday from 2000 Nats on dvd. I'll try to put them up somewhere when I get free time one of these days.