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-   -   OSHA Noise Standards and FIRST Events (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67314)

OScubed 27-04-2008 11:54
Re: Who would be the proper person to contact...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vikesrock (Post 743234)
http://forums.usfirst.org/forumdisplay.php?f=553

Only 1 member from your team should have posting privileges in this forum. You will likely have to talk to a team leader to figure out who it is.
Ah, well that would be our head mentor. I am attempting to take things OFF her plate, not put them on it, so I may see if other routes work first. I don't want this to have to become her cause - she has plenty to do already.

OScubed 27-04-2008 12:04
Re: Who would be the proper person to contact...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebarker (Post 743273)
The sound data report has the seat location for stand data during Einstein and arena location for the dome floor during divisional eliminations. The data I reported above for div. elims. had locations of sections 111 to 114 rows 1 to 35, which is in Curie.

(elided for space)

Many decades ago I spent my teenage years working in a radio station and doing a lot of sound work in large arenas. It was great fun learning how the inflow/outflow of people can change the demand quantity of power delivered through a PA system. The amount of power needed in a dome full of people would crush your head in an empty arena. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but for those that are not familiar with these systems - you have to have an operator on station full time if there is an inflow/outflow of people, like during the prelims, and divisional finals. That is what we are paying the audio people for.


Ed
Ed, thanks for fleshing all that out, for taking the measurements in the first place, and for approaching UL on it - I didn't even think of them but that makes a lot of sense. While it's nice that local venues may have standards, I suspect those standards probably apply to noise outside the venue that might affect the public (not an issue), and for sound levels for events which might last a couple hours. Our event is unusual in that we have loud music and amplified voices and sounds over a sustained period of 8-10 hours for 2-3 days at a time.

We were also in Cuire, but we were in the 117 section - right under the speakers in the front row. I suspect the sound was considerably louder right under the speaker stack. Of course that was also the best place to scout from :)

Cheers,
Lee

TKM.368 27-04-2008 14:02
Re: Who would be the proper person to contact...
 
We were in front in the Curie division and our ears were in pain for much of the time (we resorted to torn pieces of paper towel in our ears). The sound guy was down below oblivious to things going on while he watched movies on his laptop like Princess Mononoke, etc (with earphones).

On the field was another story - you couldn't hear very much of what was coming out of the speakers.

When some of our team sat in a section of Einstein, those who were primarily in the pits were covering their ears for dear life while those of us who had been mostly in the stands found the levels bearable by that point.

EricH 27-04-2008 15:25
Re: Who would be the proper person to contact...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OScubed (Post 743276)
Ah, well that would be our head mentor. I am attempting to take things OFF her plate, not put them on it, so I may see if other routes work first. I don't want this to have to become her cause - she has plenty to do already.
Volunteer to do the posting on Q&A next year. It doesn't have to be the head mentor's job to do that.

OScubed 27-04-2008 16:59
Re: Who would be the proper person to contact...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 743341)
Volunteer to do the posting on Q&A next year. It doesn't have to be the head mentor's job to do that.
Good idea, I'll ask her if that's one of the jobs she wants to keep or not. I suspect she will want to keep that as that's the best place to get quick answers to rules etc. questions which fall primarily in her arena :) My goals is to tackle some of the non-robot-building tasks she does and there are plenty of those to keep many people busy.

Thanks for the idea!

Lee

abaca3131 28-04-2008 09:20
Re: Who would be the proper person to contact...
 
On newton there wasn't any sounds at all the first day. the only music i could hear were from the other side. so i never really noticed it.

synth3tk 28-04-2008 11:30
Re: Who would be the proper person to contact...
 
I do know that when we queued up for The Blue Alliance at Buckeye, our pants were literally shaking to the beat. While I'm sure it wasn't as loud as other regionals, it was pretty loud.

Al Skierkiewicz 28-04-2008 15:30
Re: Who would be the proper person to contact...
 
Thanks Ed.

As you probably know already, the systems hung in normal events (and the Champs appeared to be using most of the same hardware) has a fairly wide horizontal dispersion. In the configuration that is normally hung, I am guessing it is on the high side of 100 degrees. Unfortunately, in a stadium, with a standard SLM, it is difficult to identify direct to reverberant fields. I would suspect that most of the noise from the other fields is as you suspect, reflections from the open areas of bare seats and concrete.

OScubed 21-12-2008 12:55
Re: OSHA Noise Standards and FIRST Events
 
Is there any specific new guidelines or rules for FRC events (both regional and national) on volume levels at events?

Just checking in,

Lee Drake

synth3tk 21-12-2008 14:29
Re: OSHA Noise Standards and FIRST Events
 
Not that I've seen, so far. This is a very important issue that needs to be stressed.

ebarker 21-12-2008 19:05
Re: OSHA Noise Standards and FIRST Events
 
I don't know of any official statement that has been issued by FIRST.

If I were given an opportunity to suggest guidelines for FIRST sound operators then off the cuff I might would say something like,

For normal competition field operations, normal sound levels should run 80 to 85 dbA with peaks at 90 dbA.

That is just an opinion. It would be good if other teams did sound measurements like we did at various events so we can trade notes as the season progresses.

Hopefully we can get a feedback mechanism to a specific person so that can transmit guidance to the sound operators in the upcoming events.

Ed

synth3tk 21-12-2008 20:40
Re: OSHA Noise Standards and FIRST Events
 
Tell me what I need and how much it costs. I'd love to help get this moving along quickly.

ebarker 21-12-2008 22:37
Re: OSHA Noise Standards and FIRST Events
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth3tk (Post 786276)
Tell me what I need and how much it costs. I'd love to help get this moving along quickly.
Tell you what. Sit tight for a few days and let us talk to our team partner - Extech.

Extech is the 'official' sound instrumentation supplier for team 1311 - Kell Robotics. Our primary instrument is the HD600 which is a top notch datalogger.

We also have a Sper "Sound Level Pen". I'm sure this Extech item will give equivalent or superior performance to the Sper.Extech Sound Meter

We will ask the Extech product manager about a special deal for FIRST teams wanting to work on this issue at the events. After we talk to Extech I will post the results of the conversation here so that we don't have a rush of folks plowing into Extech.

So please sit tight.

Best Regards,

Ed

synth3tk 22-12-2008 01:26
Re: OSHA Noise Standards and FIRST Events
 
Lol, that reads like those ads during a tech-support call put on hold.

Anyway, good to hear. I'm in no rush, as I've got a million other things to prepare for the new season.

Al Skierkiewicz 22-12-2008 07:56
Re: OSHA Noise Standards and FIRST Events
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebarker (Post 786230)

For normal competition field operations, normal sound levels should run 80 to 85 dbA with peaks at 90 dbA.


Ed
Measured where in the arena?
If anything, I would like to see a little more effort at getting better audio in the pits. Usually the system starts out just barely adequate and then as the days progress, the audio guy is asked to pump it up to ear bleed level. Since the pit announcers are not pros, a good compressor on this mic input would go a a long way to making some improvement in the pit.


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