Re: Future use of cRIO?
 

True, but I bet your cheapo Dell is sold in far larger numbers than cRIOs.

For reference, a new IFI control system (at retail) presently goes for $1,146.71. That doesn't include a power distribution system (the old panel from 2005-2006 ran $84.95, per the same page) or Victors (which, it seems, will be a constant). It's my sincere hope that we won't have to shell out anything much past that to convert an older robot to the cRIO system. It won't be the most fun we've ever had with our money (excluding travel subsidies, our 2008 budget was right around $10,000), but I can definitely see the value proposition for teams to pursue it.

(Which brings about another question: Who says a couple--or trio, or quartet--of nearby teams couldn't buddy up and split the cost of a cRIO unit?)

Re: Future use of cRIO?
 

I'm certainly not the expert, but here is my understanding. The circuit for generating the various PWMs, along with safety overrides is in the FPGA. The FPGA clocks state data out to the DIO, which is versatile, but not terribly fast or high current. To have the current to drive the victors, the signal gets boosted in the side car.

The internal cRIO bus is clocked at 40MHz, so latency isn't much of an issue.

Greg McKaskle

Re: Future use of cRIO?
 

U2 is a LV540A 3-state Buffer/Driver.

Data sheet can be found here.

They are, most likely, using it as a buffer for the DIOs to protect them from whatever students tend to do to electronics :eek: .

In other words ... it looks like FIRST will be using the DIOs to produce PWM equivelent outputs through a buffer circuit and that that buffer circuit is there to protect the DIO.

Re: Future use of cRIO?
 

Billfred is correct, I'm sure.

In regards to price, someone made a similar comment. The result. I'm thinking $3K of programming goodies is pretty good, if it's in the KOP one year and the KOP price isn't changed.

Re: Future use of cRIO?
 

Billfred is correct... I know a few people that have my exact computer. (Hey! Who has a Dimension 2400???) I also forgot to add in the cost it takes to fabricate the whole system, as these are probably not made in China, and are made here in the USA. It also seems that NI and LabView are very well known in the industry. I know of three large corporations that use LabView to control large machines (Dupont is the one that comes to me first), so the quantity NI makes control system's is fairly large, but our particular system will probably be as large as any other particular system NI produces (Just speculation).

I'm also not including the programming software, and I hate to see any teams that purchase LabView on their own, as I just recently saw their prices. OUCH!

As far as Team Fusion goes, I believe we are able to afford a new control system every year, as our finances seem to be increasing steadily every year. I do know that most teams near us will not have the same benefit as us to afford a $3000+ control system every year plus a new KOP, 1 Regional, and the Championship.

Also to touch into the ruggedness of the system... I'm very satisfied to say that I doubt many teams will be able to destroy their system apart from ripping a port out. The cRIO is very heavy, and I was astounded by the weight when I first picked it up in Atlanta. I believe the controller's casing is cast iron with a thick powder coat of paint on the outside. I'm not sure if the metal case is necessary, but it will make it much harder for teams to drill through or jigsaw in half.

If teams find that it cost too much to buy a new cRIO every year, there is another system that all teams are still familiar with that should still be on sale, our old trusty IFI system. I do realize that there are limitations to the IFI system once we move to the NI system, but you can probably have a 90% functioning robot with the IFI system, minus the bandwidth and the camera abilities.

Re: Future use of cRIO?
 

I thought they said it was SLS. That can be metal, can be nylon. The pictures I've seen indicate something resembling the latter. I'd say most of the weight is internals.

SLS is pretty hard to damage without a tool...

Re: Future use of cRIO?
 

I'm not sure what it was; I never heard anyone say what it was made of. I'm going off of weight, looks, and feel; however, I'm not a metal expert :D.

I'm also not sure what SLS is... I did a quick Wikipedia search, and found the most relevant thing was that it was used in toothpaste?!? Obviously not the same SLS.

Re: Future use of cRIO?
 

Selective Laser Sintering. Pretty much you take a powder (metal can be used, but nylon is perhaps more common) and burn it with a laser in a particular pattern, namely whatever patter will get you your part. Add another layer of powder, repeat. Repeat until you get your part. Shake off the unused powder and clean the part up.

Re: Future use of cRIO?
 

Sounds pretty cool! I guess we'll find out once more information comes out, or perhaps it's already out, but I have a Research paper for English calling my name... so I cannot look right now.

Re: Future use of cRIO?
 

The white plastic parts were rapid prototyped via SLS. I am head over heels in love with the fact that in the time it takes the board house to build my boards, the ME can design AND GROW its enclosure. Thank you Altium, Thank you SLS, Thank you Simon.

I am unsure of exactly what the material we used is. Production models will be injection molded.

I will tip my hat to the NI folk, but I believe the cRIO is die-cast, possibly sand blasted, and then painted. I don't believe it is cast iron; I'm leaning towards aluminum.

As for U2, Greg is absolutely correct. It simply adds current drive strength to the DIO. The victors require a few milliamps to turn on. A standard hobby servo signal requires almost no drive strength, and could be run without the buffering stage.

Re: Future use of cRIO?
 

Die-cast aluminum sounds much more appropriate. I knew the side-car and other external modules were quickly made prototypes, so I wasn't counting on anything final with those. I believe I was thinking earlier die-cast, but forgot the term and just said cast iron, but I did believe it was steel, but I guess it would be heavier than it currently is.

Again I'm very excited about the new control system, and I actually installed LabView 8.0 on my laptop today from the 2005 KOP (or maybe 2006), and was able to get a few things working. I'm going to look at it more this summer when I have more spare time.

Re: Future use of cRIO?
 

If it is white and was made by SLS it was probably Nylon 12 or possibly Nylon 11. Most service bureaus run 12 because it is easier to work with and excess can be re-used to some extent. 11 is much cheaper but cannot be re-used. This leads to some interesting economic/environmental tradeoffs.

For this application it doesn't matter much. In fact, it is hard to tell the difference in mechanical properties between the two. Each is better in some corner of the envelope, but the differences are smaller than the uncertainty in my designs.

There are other whitish SLS materials that are used sometimes. There is a styrene used to make patterns for casting metal and a rubber-like material has come out in the last couple of years. But they are unlikely to be used for this application

I have been working with SLS since around 2000. First as a customer and later getting it qualified to use on aircraft. I still get a kick out of getting a part that is exactly what I designed out of the machine with no labor on my part. Just ship the .stl over to Boris, he loads the machine with the file and powder and punches the button. Two to three days later I have a part. You should see the "toybox" I have at work with all the neat little gizmos we put in the unused corners of the builds.

Re: Future use of cRIO?
 

According to NI, the cost of purchasing replacement or extra cRIO controllers will be "drastically reduced". So much that it will be the same cost as what you would have paid for the old IFI controller system.

Re: Future use of cRIO?
 

That's a matter of record. Note that each team is expected to be eligible for only one discounted system each year.
Is this statement confirmed by something said by a National Instruments representative, or is it speculation on your part?

Re: Future use of cRIO?
 

To me...it doesn't make much sense to make 1000s of SLS parts when you can just have a mold made and get them injection molded. I believe the SLS was just a "prototype" cover. I could be compeltely wrong though.