Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Dear Members,
I am the Safety Mentor for team 2415. We are based at the Westminster Schools in Atlanta, GA. I just found out the other day (after our rookie year and using a variety of power tools in our RoboDen) that we have an official school policy that students NOT use any form of power tool on campus. I am devoted (as well as the head coach, mentors, and team members) to insuring that our robotics program remain strong and has the opportunity to further grow and develop.

I am posting here in hopes that teams at other schools which faced a similar "stubling point" could share with me their success stories on how they managed to secure permission from school officials the right for students to use all kinds of power tools in order to design and build prototypes as well as a working robot. My initial plans were to have our attorneys generate a waiver form that parents sign in order to grant permission for their child to use the power tools once they have been thoroughly taught all the safety precautions specific to each tool.

It might be worthy to note that we are a private school and that we have a relatively large endowment to "protect". All ideas and suggestions are more than welcome! Feel free to contact me directly at andreaa@westminster.net .

Thanks a bunch in advance! Andrea Allio

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Create Release forms and get them approved by your school administrators. Then make it mandatory that all students on the team have them signed by parents.

If you'd like to go a step further, bring in someone who knows what they're doing and teach a short class WITH PARENTS PRESENT.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

We came acrossed a similar problem in the past and I simply persuaded the school officials that it was in the best interest of the team and by result, the best thing for the school. I let them know that such a rule was crippling our learning ability.

Now, I am quite the persuasive fellow at such things and it might not work the same with you, but you might try and just talk to the officials. You never know what might happen.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

To add to the parent release forms, have a sign-off form that the student actually went thru a "class" on learning each piece of equipment. As a parent I get forms like this all the time and it's like pulling teeth finding out if my children actually learned what I'm signing. Having a teacher/mentor signature gives a little more assurance.

Hmmm. Okay, maybe a form of three parts: Request to learn and parent release to learn; teacher sign-off completed; parent release to use.

Does the school have any other shops on campus? (Metal - wood - okay, even kitchens?) A blanket rule about no power tools seems rather vague. Even electric typewriters can be dangerous!

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Or computers...Those are power tools, right?:D

If you have any team parents, have them talk to the administration, too. Parents pay the school for their kids to attend, right? I don't think the school will want to risk losing income. (That's why they have the policy in the first place.) But, if the team continues and does well, then they could gain students. (And money.)

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Pencil sharpeners, fax machines, copiers.

Lockers, chairs, doors, stairs.

Now you're scaring me......

Parents are an excellent way to convince the powers-that-be that the team needs to learn/use power tools to build a robot. But from within the team has to be the effort to show that a safe method is in place. If paperwork has to be attached, so be it.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

By and large it makes sense to not allow students to use power tools, both for liability and safety reasons, UNLESS they are both instructed and supervised by qualified individuals, preferably teachers with training in technology education or industrial education.

Surely there are schools in your district that have shops, and have developed appropriate guidlines rather than blanket bans on power tool use. Perhaps those could serve as a model.

In general, however, the power tool ban leaves me shocked. I can't think of a public secondary school in British Columbia that doesn't have some form of shop or that would ban students from using power tools. Almost all schools across the province have woodwork shops, and most have Metal and/or Automotive shops, and specifically trained teachers to run them.

Jason

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Power tools don't hurt people. Poorly instructed people hurt themselves, using power tools.

Have formal training sessions, write up a good safety test, make everyone get 100% on the test, and make sure a mentor is present when using the tools.

The school is being silly with this policy. What do they expect when the kids get to college? At college, I can run lathes, CNC mills, roller benders, torches, plasma cutters, welders, and forklifts, all unsupervised.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

On our team we have not had to face an administrative/district challenge but then again, we didn't ask....
...better to ask forgiveness when you didn't know there was a rule... than permission....so to speak...

However, incumbent in the process is that we develop a safe way for students to interact with power tools. We have an extensive safety plan which we are implementing.

Next year a student will have to show that they know safe practices to use any tools... a simple shop safety test for most hand tools and specific tests for the smaller hand tools.

We also implemented what we call a "CUT MONITOR" The cut monitor is an adult mentor/parent that observes the set up of the more dangerous power tools including chop saws, band saws, mill, etc.

When a student is ready to make the cut he gets a mentor to observe the cut setup and the cut while it is being made. This helps to insure that someone is observing and commenting on the method and the practice. Setup is crucial.

Of course, cut monitors need to be trained too...

Any team needs to remember that all it takes to lose the privilege of working with power tools is usually ONE mistake and ONE injury.

Coupled with the possible injury and its consequences, which can be devastating to both the team and the individual, the loss of privileges and possible loss of the entire program are very real possibilities in this world of litigation.

Safety must be a PRIME directive in any team....

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Hi, our team is actually just down the road from yours (1414 at Atlanta International School). Although we never really had any issues of the sort, we do go through several steps to ensure the safety of all of the students on the team. We have parents sign off a release form, which has been approved by the school. Furthermore, all students go through a training program on all of the power tools prior the program, so that they all know how to use the tools properly. Finally, there is also a safety test, which all students must complete every year on general workshop safety rules. We also heard last year from the drama department (where students do set construction), that it is actually Georgia State Law to also have a safety test on file for all students who are using the power tools.
If you would like it see our release forms and/or safety test as an example, just PM me, and i will be glad to send them over.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Most schools that have an Industrial Arts or Technology Education program have classes where there should be safety exams in place. When you approach your administration, definitely present to them your plans for having both written and practical exams. Anything you do to show that your students are proficient with any piece of powered equipment should work for your administration.

Also consider where your focus needs to be when you plan the exams. I am required to give a safety exam for each individual machine or tool a student will use in my classroom. This includes everything from the table saw, drill press, band saw, and sanders down to soldering irons, x-acto knives, and other hand tools. It can be a little tedious, but it protects you and the school if something were to happen.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Not exactly power tools...
He did state that it was a private school, so 'district' isn't really applicable.

Nevertheless, these suggestions are all good. Start with the supervising teacher(s), make sure they understand what they are trying to accomplish, and have them bring it to 'management' (the administrators of the school). Not as a confrontation, but to inform admin what it is they are seeking, and ideas on how this might possibly be accomplished.

Of course, the very highest levels of safety are mandatory. Emphasize that. Instruction, testing, parental understanding (they need to come to a meeting) and written consent are all necessary. In a case of negligence, all the signed papers in the world won't make much difference though.

In our school, we also use the concept of 'cut monitor' explained by Bob Steele. Some tools - the table saw, router, air cutoff wheel, die grinder and roto-zip most notably - are simply off limits to students. Most power tools require a cut monitor (even the sander) for all but the most experienced and skilled students - and for the saws (especially the chop saw) no exceptions.

We also instruct on hand tools, but aside from some dangerous operations, stuff like screwdrivers and wrenches, files and sandpaper are reasonably free access.

We have never had a serious injury (more than band-aid level), but we remain vigilant.

We don't test students formally, but we do supervise them closely until we see natural safety habits emerge.

Don

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

our school:
-parents sign permission form to use all the shop tools (we have 4 shops, woodworking, small engines, auto, manufacturing tech) and then teachers have a "passport" system where they demonstrate how to use the tools
-students fill out a short sheet on safety, then demonstrate tool use
-passport gets signed off, we use tools

on a similar note, it's these very forms that allow us to use tools: a kid lost half of his finger earlier this year in wood shop. the shop was closed for 4 days, then reopened. these forms work.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

My advice would be to present your case to the administration, and see if they can add an exception to allow only students with proper safety training to use the tools. This may require some time investment to create a program (if you haven't already) and actually run the sessions. We are currently phasing in a level safety & tool usage program outlined here

The administration might be willing to grant your team the exception if they can see the steps you are taking to ensure nobody gets hurt.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Well, technically neither is EricH's example of computers, but they all can be just as dangerous, if not more so, than a drill or a saw. The point being, anything can be harmful if not taught to be used properly.

As Martijn said, it's Georgia state law to have a safety test on file. Since the OP is in a private school, they can extend the rule any way they want. It might be a liability or legal issue, or just another level of paperwork they don't want to get into. Go to them with your safety policy in place, to show that you are teaching safety, and see what they say. Bring parents; administration can't really ignore them as they can teachers and students.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Our students must complete a tools safety class with requisite examination before being able to touch any tool. Our sponsor also has some added restrictions when working on their property and using their tools. Since you are a private school, this would be a great oportunity to work with one of the public schools in your area that would have shop curriculums. Find out what their reguirements are and perhaps a shop teacher would be willing to give the tools safety class to your students.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

You might try to get Underwriters Laboratories to come in and do some safety training, since they are present at the Regionals they are certainly aware of FIRST. Also have team safety training and testing, and top it off with a waiver for power tools. Come up with a plan, and present that plan to school officials. I think that if you show that you have your act together, then you have a better chance of getting this approved.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

After you do everything stated in previous threads about safety and the school still says no,you might offer to pick up the cost of an insurance rider, if that is the issue. Split the cost among members.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

I would consider the first step to find out "why" that is your school's policy. (The most likely scenario is that it involves liability insurance.) Next would be to find out all the steps necessary for getting a policy changed. It will usually include you doing the leg work, ie, researching insurance policy riders, creating release forms, lesson plans for safety, etc. When you have all the leg work done, inform the school board that you would like to speak at the next meeting regarding policy #???; this way you are put on the agenda and the board members have time to research the policy you are referring to. After your presentation, ask them to consider revising the policy. They may choose to discuss it in a closed session and will notify you by mail what compromises they are able to consider. Then at the following board meeting they will put the motion on the table and take a vote. The important thing to remember is that it won't happen overnight and you must use all the proper channels for making the change.

~Shelbo's Mom

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Thank You All for responding to my question. I now have a more defined direction of approach to the administration. I believe they want to work this out so that our students can get the full experience of being on a robotics team. Having examples of what other schools, both private and public, do to insure safety will be very helpful.

Respectfully,
Andrea Allio

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Roger, would you mind sending an electronic copy of the forms you provide the team and parents to sign? Thanks, Andrea
E-mail: andreaa@westminster.net

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Sanddrag, do you have a copy of the safety test you give students that you can send to me electronically? My e-mail address is andreaa@westminster.net.

Thanks, Andrea

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Bob, do you have your safety plan written out and could you share it with me electronically? My e-mail address is andreaa@westminster.net.

Thanks, Andrea

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Yes, I would very much like to see these forms. You can contact me directly at andreaa@westminster.net.

Thanks, Andrea

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

This thread has me thinking that we need to refocus our power tool procedures. I would also like to see the safety documents that other teams are using. Perhaps you can put a copy of them in the white paper section or post a link where I can download them? I'm sure there are others who would be reevaluating their shop procedures if these papers were available.

Thanks,

Allan

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Sorry, Andrea, this may be more of "do as I say, not as I do" situation :o. I don't think we have any formal paperwork or procedures, but I'm not on the school end of the team. (Us programmers just have to practice safe Mt Dewing :cool: ** Come to think of it they trust the programmers with the robot to make it work, so I do have to tell people to watch your fingers, hair, hood strings, etc.)

I do like the ideas here and we may try some of them. If possible could teams post their forms and tests here so we could all learn?

**We did go thru a Dr Pepper phase, but "Practice Safe Dr Peppering" doesn't have the same tone.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

The first part of our pre-build learning classes of MORT U are designated to have all students (even animation) go through safety presentations. Create a short safety test to show administrators that the students are competent enough to use the tools. Release forms were already mentioned and also go through safety procedures in the event of an accident with parents present.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Yeah right, didn't you ever see Maximum Overdrive?

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

Most of our documents are in white papers here on CD.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2101

It is the Skunkworks Safety and Health Plan 2007-2008

If you want the appendices that go with it... please visit our website

www.ahsrobotics.us They were too big to put on CD.

This plan has actually been reviewed by an Industrial Hygienist...

I hope it helps you...

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

I am the teacher/adviser for Team 2468. We are a rookie team.

We are going to use http://www.careersafeonline.com for safety certification for our students next year. It provides three different levels of certification for students. There is a fee associated with each test. We are working with our sponsors to pay for the students registrations.

The CareerSafe Online 5-Hour Course

This interactive, web-based course is designed specifically for students and is intended to provide them the basic safety skills and knowledge needed in the workplace. Students completing this course earn a 5-Hour wallet card from CareerSafe Online to demonstrate to employers they have received the training. No teacher training is required.

Learn more…

The OSHA 10-Hour Courses

CareerSafe® the national youth safety program also offers the OSHA 10-Hour General Industry and the OSHA 10-Hour Construction Industry training options. These two courses provide students with a CareerSafe 5-Hour card and also an OSHA 10-Hour Wallet Card from the OSHA Training Institute, (OTI).

OSHA 10-Hour General Course Description

OSHA 10-Hour Construction Course Description

We do not have our plan complete at this time. I will be working with our mentors over the summer to get it in place.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

We have welding and machining classes at my school which takes care of the safety issues. They have some form of paper that people fill out. As long as there is a teacher in the room, we don't have trouble. The only problem we have is if there is substitute teacher. Then we're not supposed to use any tools. We don't usually, but there are exceptions as with everything.

Re: Permission (or no permission) to use Power Tools
 

are team the kid do alllll the work mentor get to sit back and watch. and if we have a questioin we ask them.