Re: Responsibilities of a Mentor
 

Our students needed to leave the regional on the bus on Thursday night about an hour before the pits closed, per school rules. The robot was still not ready for competition. They begged and pleaded to stay, but rules are rules, and all of the students went home on the bus. Some mentors fixed the robot that night, and everything was good to go the next day. It just felt wrong the entire time knowing the students couldn't be there, but it had to get done. The students and the mentors both realized that it was for the better of the team to have a working robot.

So, is our team bad? Are the students not inspired?

I would think more carefully before making such offensive blanket statements in the future.

Re: Responsibilities of a Mentor
 

You know ... it's absolute statements like this that really drive me crazy.

I am an engineer for Parker.
I do not have an engineering degree.
I have 20 years experiance in Electrical Engineering.
I have 7 years experiance in Mechanical Engineering.
I have an associates degree in Information Technology (not an Engineering degree)

I can (and do) design fixtures and robots.
I can (and do) calculate tolerance stackups and run (stress) bending analysis.
I can (and do) sepcify components based of the requirements of the project.
I can (and do) calculate the number of Amp-turns in a solonoid.
I can (and do) run SPC and 6 Sigma calculations.
I can (and do) work in a functional design team enviroment.
Etc,etc,etc.

Which part of being an engineer am I not?

School gives you the tools you will need to be an engineer, but school is not the only place where you can get those tools (although I would not suggest my route ... as the school of hard knocks is far harder). Experiance teaches you how to use those tools. Both education and experiance are needed (usually) to become an engineer, but where you get these is not exclusive to school.

Please try and avoid using absolutes when dealing with human beings, as you will invariably run into someone (in this case me) whom is the exception to the rule.

Sorry Kate, I just don't agree with you.

Re: Responsibilities of a Mentor
 

I don't want to drag this too off topic, so here is the thread I was talking about - http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=29746. There is plenty of discussion in there on the topic of what constitutes an engineer.

Re: Responsibilities of a Mentor
 

A mentor's job is to enable the learning of the student in the best way they can. These means may change from mentor to mentor but the responsibility is the same. Do the best you can.

Re: Responsibilities of a Mentor
 

I have some general thoughts regarding the general responsibility of a mentor, philosophical at that. But I'll start with the meat of the question at hand.

Paragraph 2 response: I've seen it work best with whoever steps up to the plate to head certain parts, whether it be the sponsor's employees, parents, or teachers. I hate to put Darwinism into it, but a form of 'natural selection' seems to be a determining factor to how a team structures itself. When it comes to the responsibilities of running a team: a mentor's main responsibility is to do what he/she thinks is reasonably possible just to keep the team afloat and as a team. They need to be a sort of glue that keeps the team together and functioning. 'How' it is done is a whole different story, dependent on the team location, outside events, etc.

So we goto paragraph 3: Where does the responsibility fall when important things are left undone? My thought is this - Imagine 'n' people surrounding a water balloon. Each person has pins, and they begin to poke the balloon with the intention of popping it. One of three things can happen:

1. The balloon pops, the team of 'n' people has done its job.
2. The balloon fails to pop. Some subset of people on the team get the clever idea to grab a hammer or larger object to smash/pop the balloon (thinking outside the collective box). The job is still done and the team succeeds. (This is a rather simple way of putting it. There could have been people within the team politicking to pop the balloon with pins only, nothing else, thus leading to...)
3. The balloon fails to pop. Nobody does anything about it. The team does not do the job it has set out to do.

This is where pointing fingers is null of any point (no pun intended). So long as there was an effort, there's no blame or responsibility to take for failure. Somebody tried, and either succeeded or failed, and they still represent the team. I hope this is a pretty general answer to your inquiry in paragraph 3, absolute answers seem insufficient in my mind.

Coming off of those thoughts, I tried/try to be myself, be 'me' while being a 'me'ntor. I try to show what to do, teach what not to do (because I have probably done it myself and learned from it), and let others discover in real time all while offering some ideas on problems at hand. I am not afraid or embarrassed to make a goof because its part of being human: a commonality between mentors, sponsors, teachers, parents, students, etc. And when I do, I admit, apologize, and append to my mental list of things to do and not to do.

So in general, the responsibility(ies) of being a mentor/adviser is just to lead by example, by being human, and all while getting what needs to get done as done as possible (some things are really impossible to get done). Mistakes are great, for it makes room for more lessons to be taught, which is a point of mentoring. Just take a humanistic approach to it (punish the act not the person). Let things just fall in place naturally, including leaders who set up and fill positions that keep a team running. If guiding is needed, find a guide to do it (including you).

As a side note: I think what psychologists call observational learning is great for learning what to do and what not to do in any situation, good or bad, for students and leaders alike. Some food for thought by example from my own experiences can be found here and here (Key lessons learned: realize context, and avoid discussing volatile and flammable issues. 'Observe' and learn from the mistakes others make, including me). There's also operant conditioning, which is what I experienced in those events above. Psychology is a great thing to know as a mentor/adviser or anything in leadership for that matter.

One more thing: go here and download the powerpoint. How relevant it is to the subject here is up in the air, but I'll link to it nonetheless. (You'll need Powerpoint 2007 or the viewer to view it.) It has some great thoughts (some are a bit iffy, but mostly good. it is the opinion of the author who made it).

Hope this is a good couple cents here.

_Joe

Re: Responsibilities of a Mentor
 

Understood. However, I was making a point--if you're going to say that team XXXX (or a non-specific team) is mentor-built, you need evidence (which happens to be lacking in this case/possible case). I personally have no experience with such teams; indeed, the teams I know sometimes have too little mentor involvement at key moments. I don't know of any that are built by adults, and I choose not to know which they are, should there be some. There may be one or two, and I think of the "Dad at Christmas" analogy--you can only hope that the kid(s) get more involved.

Re: Responsibilities of a Mentor
 

I wish you could meet my father. He's retired now, but he was a Senior Research and Development Engineer for an aerospace company, where he was in charge of a prototype lab that designed and built new models of multi-processor guidance systems for supersonic anti-aircraft missiles. I'm sure that his employer would be quite surprised to learn that he couldn't be an engineer because he never received a Bachelor's degree.

Don't try to sound authoritative when you are just guessing, and don't force people into little boxes.

Re: Responsibilities of a Mentor
 

On the "you need a degree to be an engineer" topic, I'd like to remind you of one Mr. Dean Kamen. I don't think he ever received a real engineering degree (honorary, I think so).

Now, that said... to call yourself a professional engineer, you need the PE exam, and for that you need a different exam and some years under PEs, and for that exam I think you need college. Not sure about the graduate with a degree part, but certainly on the path to it, IIRC.

Re: Responsibilities of a Mentor
 

O RLY? http://www.nsf.gov/statistics/infbrief/nsf04333/
The NSF would beg to differ.

Re: Responsibilities of a Mentor
 

Okay guys - I would like you to please look at the thread that I linked a bunch of posts up. This discussion has nothing to do with the topic at hand, and I'm sure the original poster would like it somewhat back on track. That opinion of mine had to do with a student expressing that, as a high school student, he could do what engineers do. I'm sure there are exceptions to what I stated - I admit that I put it in terms that were a bit too black and white - but generally, you do need a degree (or some sort of specific training involving years of experience) to be an engineer. As Dan_Lafleur pointed out, the way that doesn't involve a degree is long and hard, and there is no way a high school student could have been through it. There is plenty of good discussion (also regarding Dean Kamen) in that thread, so if you would like to discuss the topic more, and read some important opinions on it, here you are! There are many people in that thread who have expressed my opinion more eloquently that I ever could.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=29746 (link should work now)

Re: Responsibilities of a Mentor
 

Joe,
That was a neat post. A lot of food for thought there.

One of the reasons I think the FRC program is successful in so many ways is because of the working side by side opportunities between the student and the mentor. Usually because of the time constraints, there is a lot of pressure and students see/observe how their mentors handle the pressure and the job performance.

Many many of the engineers and professionals that I have met and talked with in FIRST are very committed to the program and the development of the students. I have favorite memories from FRC but I'm gaining new ones from FLL and FTC as well. Sometimes it is from observing the interactions of the mentors with the students. Sometimes it is from watching the mentors calm the students down right before they enter the room where the judges are. Sometimes it is from respectfully listening to a mentor telling the team why did they did not win the medal or award but that they put forth their best effort - that someone else did something a little bit better or a little differently that caught the judges' eyes or ears. Sometimes when I'm listening, I'll see the mentor's eyes get teary. It doesn't matter if I'm in Texas or Indiana or Florida or Georgia - mentors that I meet are made up of character and integrity and they love working with students.

Re: Responsibilities of a Mentor
 

Dean also does not call himself an engineer (he characterizes himself as an "inventor").


.

Re: Responsibilities of a Mentor
 

And entrepreneur.

Re: Responsibilities of a Mentor
 

The Responsibilities of a Mentor? Good Question...several people in this post are focusing soley on engineers.

I'm not an engineer. I am a mentor. I could not engineer my way out of a tight parking space.

As I see them my responsibilities are to set a good example. To show sportsmanship, postive attitudes and to teach the students they can do what they never thought they could and then lead the celebration when they realize they can.

I also think its my job to handle the details...to make sure the paperwork is done, everyone gets fed and we all know how we are getting there and where we will sleep. Its also my job to make sure that insurance is covered and all safety measures are taken.

Its my job to drive them to companies and give them a pep talk before a cold call. Its my job to drive the robot to demos and make sure the DVD works. Its my job to remind them to send thank you notes. Its my job to remind them of homework and mothers day and to call their girlfriends.

Its my job to hound them to fill out scholarship forms, college apps and other paperwork.

Mostly its my job to help them grow up and become the amazing group that they are. I know that watching them inspires me constantly.

If stuff falls through the cracks....well it can be my fault too, and teaching them to accept responsiblity is my job too.

Sorry for the long one...just trying to get this thread back on track.

Re: Responsibilities of a Mentor
 

Kate,

I looked at the thread you referenced, it is a good one with lots of good discussion involved.

Wen, good luck with the track thing.