Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

I was just thinking about the large amount of off-season events in the Mid-Atlantic/New England area and came to think, “Why don’t some teams just save the money and attend all of these events rather than attending a regional?” They are shorter, don’t require students to miss school, and are fun and far less stressful.

I know the one major thing teams are going to say is that you get all the kit parts every year when the new game starts. But if you just reuse the parts year to year, it should be just as cheap. While you won’t get the big fancy trophies or banners from an official event, you still get the experience and possible trophies from the off-seasons.

Quick List of Mid-Atl/N.E.events this year/last year:
Beantown Blitz-Annual
Battlecry-Annual
Wolcott-New 08
Mayhem-Annual
PARC-Annual
Monty-Annual
DoD-Annual
BE-Annual
Ramp Riot-Annual
BoB-Annual
Pascack-New 08
AA-New 08
River Rage-Annual
Ruckus-Annual
Bash-Annual
Deer Park-New 07

Just say as an average, they are $300 a pop. 16 events times $300 is $4,800. That’s not that bad if you ask me. Cheaper than one regional. Then you could treat IRI as your championship event (To me its just as hard to win here, some may say more some will says less…You could argue either side and have enough to defend your points easily) and that gets you just over $5,000 on the year.

There definitely would be a feel of something missing from the season, but you have time to perfect your robot and be much more creative. You also could just design a robot that is exactly like 1114 (or the Championship winner/Most dominant team). That just wouldn’t be as fun though…well kind of.

I just wanted to see if anyone else has thought about this at all or if anyone even sees this as a viable option. I’m not suggesting to anyone do it, but it just seems a bit cheaper and you get more competitions in. Also, not having 6 week schedule does hamper the fun a bit. Just wouldn’t be as much of a rush for people as normal.



Sorry if this is just all messed up thought wise. I'm never one to lay things out very well at first.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

I don't think this could completely replace the regular season because of the price of kit parts. After you purchase all the components that go into the bot (controller, radios, vics, fuse panels, motors, etc) I think you would be approaching the cost of registration, but I haven't done all the math.
Now, replacing a second regional/champs I think that it is most defiantly feasible, especially for a rookie team.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

Gosh, I'm turning into quite the curmudgeon lately. Even though what I have to say is laced with the word "you", try to take it as a general commentary on the concept, and not anything personal.

FRC isn't about having fun. It isn't about the robots. If you ignore the six-week build time restriction, if you dismiss the stress of official regional competition events, if you set aside the need to set priorities between robotics and study...then you lose a significant amount of what this is about.

If you go around the program and only attend offseason events, you don't just give up the opportunity to win official FIRST robot trophies and banners. You remove yourself from contention for the big award. You avoid full exposure to the core reason for FIRST's existence. You essentially announce that you care mostly about having fun.

Fun isn't bad. Other tech-based programs would likely welcome your participation. But by trying to participate in FRC-related events as a non-FIRST team, you don't contribute appropriately to the program, and I would not be inclined to grant you entry to any such events for which I had responsibility.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

The fun of FIRST is not entirely the competitions. The bulk of the hardest fun you'll ever have is opening up that box in early january, and the six week of chaos that that box of parts puts you through.

Also, the KOP is signifigantly discounted. I imagine that buying all the donated parts off the shelf would put the total very near, or above $6000, without a regional included.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

Isn't FIRST about giving the students the experience of working with professional engineers to overcome a challenge and ultimately inspiring them to pursuit technical careers?
Sure, you may not have the same six week time crunch of normal FRC competition, but you still have to have a robot done for competition.
As I see it, as long as you're inspiring, you know what its about.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

That was my thoughts as well Jeff. Besides, you could always set up a theoretical six weeks. Again, its not the same, and I do agree with what you said about the time restriction aspect, Alan, but that can be substituted easily with setting up your own set of guidelines for building.
And to your first point earlier Jeff, if we do indeed have to reuse the controller from year to year, it does become a bit cheaper. A good amount of the parts in the kit can be reused year to year. They might have a little bit of wear and tear and will eventually need to be replaced, but still the cost could be kept down a bit by just reusing parts.


Again, I'm not for/against this idea. I was just bringing it up to see if anyone else has thought about it and maybe even considered it. I don't think this is a good idea for most teams, but for some teams, it could work.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

I believe at least one regional is necessary.

As stated before, there is something about the time constraint and scope of the project we work on that really puts engineering into perspective for the students.

Also, the official events are always run very well, and teams always feel like there are MUCH higher powers at work while they compete.

If a team wants to ditch another regional in lieu of more off-seasons, I guess that's a valid choice for them to make. I believe 1519 does something like this.

I, for one, will continue to compete in as many official competitions as possible.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

The only problem with your plan would be the simple fact that each year offers new hardware, which is usually only available through the KoP. Vision sensors, new controllers, etc. Personally I think if a team registers for one event, gets the KoP, then does more off seasons than regionals that'd be kinda cool. Problem is that it's harder to manage a team when you're not in school (everyone has summer plans, etc).

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

You rcosts actually won't be anywhere near the $4800 mark for registration purposes at least.
A lot of these off-seasons are on the same weekend. if a team went to 10 a year, that would be unbelievable!

I think this could work in theory.

if a team wants every experience associated with FIRST without breaking the bank, then they could do it this way:

If someone wants to break down the costs here at some time to run a comparison, go ahead.

"Normal Season"

Registration
Kickoff
The 6 week experience
1 Regional Event
(additional regional event)
The Championship Event
2 Off-Seasons (just for arguments sake for an average number)


"Modified season"
Registration
Kickoff
The 6 weeks experience
1 Regional Event (may as well)
NO CHAMPIONSHIP EVENT
8 off seasons (again for arguments sake / half of your estimated 16 number)

The cost difference will obviously be how many regional events you attend, & the lack of a Championship Event for the modified season.

The factor that could actually push the "modified season" well over the cost of a "normal season" would be lodging & travel expenses for off-seasons (which are usually low, but if you want to make that your big travel expenditures, it could add up fast.)

What could also effect this, is something I heard briefly but don't know the details of yet.
if teams are allowed to carry over their conrol systems from year to year, & they interface with the software that run the field the same every year, then you could theoretically invest money in that type of system next year, & then ONLY do off-season events (providing it was ok with the organizers of the off-season) A lot of times Off-seasons have a banner rule that as long as the robot competed in an "official event" then they are good to go for the off-season.

This may change that sometimes unspoken rule, & require off-seasons to have an inspection process.

No new way of thinking is ever perfect the first time it is presented, but that doesn't mean it's not possible.

This could actually have potential for some teams in the future, with a large expense of a brand new kit (re: official registration) investment once every comple of years if that.
Hopefully if a team ever decided to do this, they wouldn't be seen as "playing the system" & still get the recognition from the general FIRST community for their work.

Let's take it even a step futher, & have a flashback here.
If teams independently from FIRST or seperate organizations such as the (still alive in some form -kinda) N.E.R.D. organization or M.A.V.E.R.I.C.K. organization wanted to, they could actually recognize these teams overall in a "modified season".
I once heard talk about a cup system (like is known in Auto Racing) completely seperate from the Regional & Championship level of official FRC practices, where a team could attend multiple Off-Seasons who were part of the "cup race", & the teams who only wanted to participate in these off seasons, and not the normal season, could sign up & get points for this & win a big trophy at the end.

This is a meshing of a million ideas, but it could happen in the future given the way this program is growing.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

Yeah, I forgot to take that into account when I was writing that out before. Good point.
As others have said, the Single Regional and Multiple Off-season plan seems to be a good one for the Financially weak team.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

I see a problem in that. Unless you have a team that is VERY good at setting and maintaining its own deadlines, I see this not working. Because it is an internal deadline. There is not really a consequence of missing the deadline. Personally, I know that I often let my own deadlines slip for various reasons.

Aside from that, I think there is something particularly exciting and inspiring about being at the regionals and championship that is not matched in most off-season events. I'm not saying they are not good, or not exciting. There is a certain production quality aspect of the official events that puts folks in awe.

Oh, and the issue that I hammer my kids with every year! Scholarships! By not competing in official events you give up access to over $8 MILLION in college scholarships! (Hmm, maybe that right there says it all...)

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

How would the FIRST goals and mission be impacted within these teams by the distancing of the teams from the official events and the program, itself?

What would be in place to help the group or the team maintain those goals -or- would the reason for entering only off-seasons be solely for the robot competition and the fun of building something?

The participants who chose only to participate in off-seasons would be stepping away from the FIRST program. As we see in the current off-seasons, rules are modified and changed. The people who participate in those events would experience many different events with lots of variations.

At what point do those participants decide that rules are made to be changed? It becomes a philosophical discussion very quickly.
Interesting thread.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

Very good points there. Not officially participating in the event could greatly effect the scholarships like you said. I hadn't even thought of that! That would be most tragic.

The excitement level is completely different for me as well. Only IRI rivals the excitement of an official event to me.

And yes, it is harder with the self-imposed deadlines. Everyone does become more lax, for the most part.

A good discussion. I love it.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

But if you didn't have a pedigree established in FRC tournaments, would you be accepted at IRI?

The same might apply at many of the other off-season events:
"What's your team number?"
"We don't have one, we didn't enter FRC this year."
"OK, thanks for calling."

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

Great point.
I thought of that as well, and yes that would be an issue. However, if you got in a few off-seasons before the IRI team selection, that could change some peoples minds. That is one awfully big "if" though.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

I agree with others who have said that, while you can still gain experience and know-how from engineers and mentors from only attending off-season events, a team would be missing out on the official FIRST program. They would also miss out on the diversity of teams that attend the various events--a variety which may not be found in all off-season competitions.


Another concern that I would have with a team only attending off-season events is the fact that these teams would be facing other teams who have been to one or more official FIRST competitions. They would be facing teams who already have a feel for the game in a competition setting. I could be wrong, but I feel as if this would be a major disadvantage to the off-season event team(s). Granted, they could make this up by attending multiple off-season events and gaining experience, but I still feel like they would have a lot of work ahead of them.

Very thought-provoking question.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

If you are looking at IRI as the Çhampionship event, you have to think about the big picture and the overall impact on the team and how it conducts itself in FIRST. The robot competition is important but so is the character of the team as well. To hurry and compete in a few off-seasons won't showcase the quality and character of the team fairly when applying for a spot.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

One thing that no one has brought up, yes you could build a killer robot but you would no practice in driving it. In my opinion 1114 wasnt a stellar robot completely because of their design. (Not to say the design wasnt awesome) They were stellar because their drivers were good. Even better example, 148. Their robot was by no means the fastest in a straight speed test. Their drivers were just wicked awesome. Point is, those teams had a LOT of practice. Try putting rookie drivers in during the eliminations of a national division and you should see what your drivers would be facing. The off season competitions like IRI are so awesome because everyone knows what they are doing.

Just my .02

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

We sort of have a related situation in a very limited sense now when the pre-rookies play with loaner robots in our off-season competitions.

Granted, they typically only do this a few months before joining the full program, however, on Long Island we've had perennial pre-rookies who never were able to get it together enough to register. One school in particular has done it for three years running. Even when we have them shadow our teams through a FIRST season, unless they fully commit the potential just doesn't get realized.

The goal is to get them into the full FIRST program, of course, because they miss out on so much. They haven't sweated through the build season or even the concept and design process and so don't experience most of the FIRST benefits. They do get the camraderie of working together to repair the robots, and the experienced students work closely with them on all aspects.

I think it's viable for teams that have to drop out for a season due to a lack of finances, but only to maintain the team as they try to pull their finances together to compete officially again.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

I think this would be a pretty big issue. If your "6 week build period" is after the official FRC season is over, your team will have already have seen which designs work well, and which ones don't. That kind of takes out the fun of brainstorming from scratch, and coming up an idea for something for which there isn't any good documented answers yet. And when you go to sign up for an off season event, what will they say when you tell them you designed your robot after watching all of this year's regionals? Seems like it would give you an unfair advantage at these events.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

I really want to thank Corey for bringing up this discussion and playing "Devil's Advocate" with this topic. I also want to thank the responders for the respectful way in which they are replying. Its great to stop and think about the benefits of each part of the year.

As the organizer of an off-season event going into its 9th year (Ramp Riot), I can tell you that our goal is to "simulate" the regular season as best we can. I think our event comes very close, but it is not quite the regular season. When people come to Ramp Riot as thier first ever robotics event, they are often amazed. But what I will tell them is that if you think this is amazing, come to the Philly Regional in March and you'll be knocked off your feet.

But I think the two seasons need each other for FIRST to thrive. They both hold importance in different ways. The off-season is an opportunity to experiment, train, have relaxed fun, and inspire new schools and sponsors The off-season provides an environment for very long term learning for new members.

The regular season experience goes beyond words and has been covered well by others in this thread. Enough said by me. :-)

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

1618 is in a bit of a similar boat here. We've always been a one-regional team (historically Palmetto, but we did Chesapeake this year for better timing at incrementally-higher cost). From Columbia, South Carolina, any other competition (in-season or not) involves overnight travel. In our judgment, we can gain more for thousands of dollars less from a regional and a fall off-season event than two regionals. Competing in the fall allows us to get the hooks in with our new kids; while it might not be to the same degree as a regional or the Championship, it may just be enough to make sure they're not drawn away in build season.

Of course, as always, I'd direct a team to figure out how they can best achieve their goals; if they're doing them, I can't complain.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

I wholeheartedly disagree!!! Fun is the number one reason kids get interested in robotics through FIRST. Take fun away and you might as well kill the whole thing.

Corey is right about how the off season events offer an alternative to expensive FIRST regionals. I wouldn' t go so far as to say abandon the season altogether but I will say that our team has a lot more fun at off season events these days than at many official regionals. Frankly what has made the official season so unenjoyable is more the human, "official" beaurocratic factors than the game itself.
The off season, at least around here, offers a fun time at a cheap price where playing is often more valuable than winning. And there aren't picayune inspectors and over zealous refs to ruin the good time.

FIRST is about changing the culture of how people think about engineering. Making it fun makes it desirable to the kids and shows them that they can actually get interested in something academic that can also be entertaining.
Most of our teams here learn about FIRST by having FUN at an off season and then going through the agony of their first build season.
Of course we could show them that engineering is tedious, boring and nothing but hard work. I am sure that would really bring in the new teams.

WC

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

We've actually joked that we are an "off-season" team, as we are hoping to make it a habit to go to at least four different off-season events, possibly more in the future. However this is in addition to the normal season, not as a replacement.

I think a team would miss out a lot on not going to a regional event, and especially on not going to Atlanta, but they are going to miss out even more if there is no team at all because they can't afford it. If a team were to hit a rough patch and couldn't afford a regional, I think attending off-season events would be a cheap way to keep the team going during a time of troubles, or a cheap way to get a team started. I'd rather a team attend only off season events than no events at all.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

I for one would not want to miss the build season, even with all of its' stresses and challenges.
Not all teams are able to do field trips after a certain point of the year. Many schools in WI set this date in the beginning of May.
I wonder if it would be hard to recruit/maintain sponsors and students without the competition season. It seems like it is more work to get things done during the offseason but maybe that is because some of us like pretend there actually is an "offseason" even though we all know that never really happens.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

Something Billfred said just occured to me. If you participate in fall off season events, that is a great way to show newcomers what they'll be doing in January. I would've benefitted in a positive way from that in my rookie year. It'd give them drive during the build seson, and goals to reach, even if the game is different. I would've become more involved if I knew what was coming, as far as going to BMR is concerned.

Here's a question which is in part connected to this thread, but if it isn't feel free to let me know. I've heard people say "If you thought BMR was fun, just wait until IRI", but I've also heard ot the opposite "If you think this such and such off saeson event is fun, just wait 'til you get to an actual regional". In your opinion, which is better FOR YOU, a regional or an off season event(mind you, they're both awesome.)?

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

The answer to that would obviously be an unequivocal no. There are dozens of established teams that applied but didn't make the IRI invitation list this year.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

I don't deny that participating in FIRST is fun. Dean Kamen's "It's the hardest fun you'll ever have" would make a great tagline for a recruitment commercial. Removing the fun would indeed kill the program. But I maintain my position: it's not about the fun.

If fun were the goal, we could meet it much more easily by building the program around huge parties instead of around robot competitions. Come to think of it, we do tend to build huge parties around the competitions, because we want everyone to have fun. But we still have the engineering and mentorship and science and technology as the foundation.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

IRI is fun but BMR is much more important to our team.

IRI may be the toughest competition of the year but it's still just an off-season event.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

Folks,

Once FIRST changes "the culture" and hundreds of local leagues (resembling local baseball, soccer, etc. leagues) are thriving; and once "seasons" include more than a very small handful of very expensive tournaments (again, think of local sports leagues); won't the inspiring program "received" by those teams much more closely resemble the challenging and fun experience of prepping for and attending several current off-season events, than the challenging and fun experience of prepping for and attending 1-N current regionals?

Look down the road toward the big-picture goal we assert that we are striving for. What do you see at the end of that road?

Blake

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

Those statements are not opposites. They are talking about two completely different things. For anyone who hasn't been to an official competition, an offseason -- even one as awesome as IRI -- cannot prepare one for the total rush connected with the whole FIRST culture. But for someone who has already experienced the fullness of an FRC competition, IRI is something extra special and spectacular. IRI has earned its reputation as a place for the big dogs to compete. For better or for worse, it has become an elite event.

I choose an official regional. There's so much opportunity to inspire and be inspired, before things have played out in the regular competition season.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

In terms of cost, another factor that you have to consider is the price for staying near the off-season event if you don't live nearby. I don't think there are any off-season events within an hour or so from my school, so we'd probably need to stay overnight. I'm sure that there are other teams who have the same situation. But then again, if you don't live near an official regional event, you still have to stay somewhere overnight.

I think it's a good idea to attend an official regional and some off-season events. Yeah, you have to pay the $6,000, but you get a Kit of Parts so you don't have to go out and order everything (although you could probably do so). Another official regional costs $4,000, which some teams don't have. An off-season event is a few hundred dollars, plus maybe $1,000 or so in transportation and overnight staying. I don't know the exact cost, but the total cost is probably less than that of another official regional. I haven't gone to one, so I wouldn't know this for sure.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

An hour is nothing. This year, some classmates of mine drove from Columbia, SC, to Atlanta for the Saturday of the Championship (roughly four hours on the road one-way) and went back the same night without any ill effects.*

It might be a long day for the team, but you can go a ways without requiring a hotel.

*And since we got a perfect score on our documentary, I'd venture to say it was worth it.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

That's not exactly what I meant. Some people say that they are both awesome, but one is better. Then the other says the reverse. These people have been to both kinds of events numerous times and say these things. To me, that means opposite. I just was wondering which sentiment more people agreed with. I myself can't remember IRI last year. I do remember BMR though. The week of IRI I have major things going on, same as last year, and I'm wondering if I should split Friday between my two conflicts. The other one is just as awesome/important. That's why I brought it up; for curiousities' sake, and for a little help in deciding.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

Well, Billfred, I guess I was assuming that people wouldn't want to wake up at 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning to attend an event. Now I realize that I was wrong. But staying overnight IS more convenient than eight hours of transportation.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

Don't confuse convenient and expensive.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

I would honestly rather go to the IRI then the championship event for a host of reasons. 2 regionals and IRI would be good with me or even 3 regionals and IRI. Could even be fun to do two regionals and calgames and/or battlecry. After 5 championship events 04-08 in the same location, I'm kind of over it. I also think you should do diffrent regionals and not the same ones keep it fun. I defintely think you should do at least one or two regionals. I see your point Corey.

My two cents,
Drew

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

You guys need to get out more :)

40 minutes to Deer Park Invitational, Oct. 25
50 minutes to Robofest 2008, June 14
90 minutes to Brunswick Eruption, Nov. 1
90 minutes to August Adventure, Aug. 2/3
108 minutes to Monty Madness, May 31

We go to the Deer Park and North Brunswick off-season competitions. For NJ only the drivers have to wake up at 5:30 am. the rest can nap on the ride over.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

looking at this huge list of events, why not make a tour season instead

yes you can compete in the regular season, but maybe in the off season, all of the people here can get together for the mid-Atlantic/NE region and create a PGA tour type setup. with a little bit of sprint cup mixed in bewteen

maybe give a cretin amount of points for wins etc. and the winner gets a nice big shiny trophy

you wouldn't have to attend every event, but it would be useful.

here is an example of a scoring system

+10 points for winning the regional
+5 being a finalist
+3 Semi Finalist
+1 Quarter finalist

+1 win
0 tie
-0.25 Loss

maybe someone could put Ranking points into the mix as well

you could also add on points to cretin awards at these events, all in all, this could end up being a VERY FUN idea come next year

p.s. FIRST is ALL about having FUN. if it wasn't, most of us wouldn't be here

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

[offtopic]

I think you're confusing what FIRST is as opposed to what FIRST is about. Everyone here will agree that FIRST is fun; FIRST itself has even billed its flagship competition as such. However, a cursory check of their website will indicate that FIRST is about inspiration in its various forms.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

We do make the conscious decision of competing in lots of off-season tournaments. This year, we attended only one regular-season tournament, and have six offseason tournaments currently planned, although we may try to get to one or two more. We're even hoping to field two robots at quite a few of these offseason events, space-permitting.

What is it that we like about the offseason events?

• More time in between the events to continue to make robot enhancements and implement new features.
• Less competitiveness, so that students can drive the robot that may not be the best drivers, but still want to have a chance to do so in a real competition. (The same holds for pit crews.)
• More time to socialize and interact with other teams at events.
• Lower registration fees to help stretch our budget farther.
• Single-day tournaments to avoid mentors needing to take days off from work to attend the tournaments.

That said, we'd love to be able to attend a second regular season tournament as well as a whole bunch of offseason events, but we think the offseason events are a fantastic value!

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

1519's approach makes sense. I think that's a really good idea. You get the benefits of both, but with less cost and all of the other wonderful advantages Ken mentioned.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

For those who don't know, here is the situation with my team (1889):

We did not compete in 2008. We registered for the UCF regional, but when we had some sponsorships that we were expecting disappear, and we had less than $2000 in the bank in November, we contacted the regional committee and said we would not be able to attend.

However, we built a robot. We set our sights on building up our team and raising funds to compete in the 2009 season, with the intention of using our robot in fall 2008 off-season events. We followed all the rules (parts usage, build season, etc.) and have a perfectly legal robot, except that we have a 2007 controller instead of a 2008 controller (same with the batteries). We built a new chassis from the kit we hadn't used the previous year. We took our COTS AndyMark gearboxes and wheels from 2007 apart to the as-received condition and re-assembled them. We purchased an IR board, a trackball, and pneumatic cylinders, and built all new components. If this had happened a year later we would be stuck buying a brand new control system and probably couldn't have pulled it off.

What we have now is a team that has learned to work together under pressure of a 6 week schedule, and we have over $6000 in the bank, with a few thousand more coming in the fall for fabrication and travel. We will drive down to Mission Mayhem (~ 45 minutes) and will spend the night in the SunDome for TNT (~3.5 hours). It would have been great to attend IRI, but that probably would have put us in financial trouble for next season.

I think that offseason events are a good way to introduce students to what they can expect during the FIRST season and start getting them excited. We considered FTC as an option last year but by the time we could have started, their season was too far along and we had no experience. Depending on funding we may go that way in the future, but I thiink we have a solid foundation. My put is that off season events are a significant part of the total program, but are not a replacement.

Re: Offseasons as your Regular Season?
 

Gary, thank you for sharing 1889's situation. I'm going to refer to this post as one of inspiration and making lemonade out of lemons - when I read about and hear about other teams struggling to keep afloat and wondering what they are going to do.

It is also a great example of what the tenacity and commitment of a mentor can do for a team.

Have fun at Mission Mayhem and TNT - I'll know you'll be helping other teams just like you always do.
Jane