Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I'm not one to complain about small squabbles, but there comes a time when enough is enough. Consider this my towel thrown in. FIRST was fun, but I feel it is no longer the place for me to spend my time. You might see me involved in the future, but I wouldn't count on it. Over the past two months I have been verbally assaulted and degraded by more than ten people in the FRC community that I used to look up to. I have attempted to provide a different perspective on many things, and as a result received a torrent of PMs and other messages that have both degraded my intelligence, and blatantly (and seemingly intentionally) misinterpreted the bulk of my ideas.

I hope to leave you all with a message: Just because someone disagrees with you, and has a differing opinion, does not mean they are "un-GP." Just because someone thinks differently than you or your team does not make them inferior. The issue of waving the GP flag at anything that was different has come up, but nothing changed. Consider this your first casualty of the FIRST cult mentality.

Having been kicked off a FIRST team by a student with power delusions, I hoped to be able to keep involved through CD. For a time, it worked. I was still a part of FRC, and I enjoyed it. But over time, the same issues that have bugged me for a long time, and have dug at me since I joined have not gone away, nor even diminished. There are many here who were not part of the problem, and I'd like to thank them. I could name names, but it wouldn't prove anything, nor further any goal.

So farewell, Chief Delphi. I applaud FIRST's goals, I just think many people here need to examine how they communicate with others. Sometimes it is worth it to stop and read what you've written before posting.

Farewell, CD. It was a fun ride. If for some reason anyone needs to contact me, feel free to email me or AIM me any time. My contact info should stay up here until someone decides to delete my account to save a few bits.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

It has been enjoyable to see your CAD designs and to hear your input on issues the past few years.

Good luck in the future!

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I definitely agree.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

you have some great points man. the community will be sad to see you go. :( Peace out and live well.

"Wars may come and go, but my soldiers stay eternal." Tupac Shakir;)

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

We'll miss you on CD but we all have that time to move along. For some it may never come but for many others its close. I'll miss your CAD work and your posts. Good luck in life!

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I for one will miss your posts, your designs, and your expertise. Best of luck in life outside of FIRST. I hear they pay you for stuff out there (and not in Krispy Kremes).

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

If I could point to the FIRST community's Achilles heal, it would be what you laid out here, and even after knowing about it in my gut for more than 3 years (oddly after 2004 this became evident, but not on CD so much), I could not at all put it better than you have right here.

That said, FIRST is not a battleground for anything and should never be treated like such, and seeing this sort of departure is plainly sad...

But, you gotta do what you gotta do. Good Luck out there!

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I hope to learn a lot about CAD from you later on. I'll try to keep in touch. As for you leaving...its sad how people on here interpret things and don't let opinions of others lay where they are... people really need to ease up with the whole "Un-GP" and GP thing sometimes and stop using it to back everything up or like you said, use it as a blatant excuse to shoot down another person's opinions.

Good luck out there, please develop your ideas into a reality....and yes Ed, I hear they pay in cupcakes, not Krispy Kreme:D

-Akash Rastogi

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Wow Craig, I'm at a loss for how to reply. I for one, will miss seeing you around CD. I have always appreciated your input on subjects that you post on.
I must say, I didn't realize the you were dealing with the battles that you mentioned above. Maybe that is because you had the GP, and wisdom, not to air those issues publicly. THANK YOU!!!
It seems from your comments that your style of thinking outside the box, considering alternative approaches, attempting to do things in an unconventional way and having the courage to talk about it has gotten you in trouble. Well I say, KEEP DOING IT!!!! That style of thinking is where genius resides and flourishes.

If you ever want to work with a team again, look me up. The teams in this area could definitely use your support and experience, and we love the unconventional. Besides, Sacramento is not that far away.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

You will be missed.

Adios, Amigo.

-Vivek

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

The community will miss you, your vast knowledge and amazing CAD work. Best of luck on your future projects and goals.

Chris

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I don't think it's right that people have been rude enough to make you feel that you have to leave, here or your on your team. I don't believe I've had much of anything bad said about me, but to think that people would to it in here slightly disgusts me. Enough bad things are said about robotics people as it is, why turn on ourselves and make our colleauges and, for me, family feel not welcome. Man, I'm sorry you have to go. In the words of the Rugrats, "You gotta do what ya gotta do!"

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Stay.

Edit: "Character cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering
can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
Helen Keller (1880-1968)

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Again, Jane gives the best advice yet!
Ditto!

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Sigh, Craig, I'm not gonna a beg you to stay, or tell you that I understand why you are leaving, just gonna tell you one thing.

so long, and thanks for all the fish.

not only did you start ME working on CAD designs and posting them on CD, and probably encouraged many others to do so as well, you helped brew really collaborative little clouds of discussion around other designs as well as your own, making CD a great place to discuss designs and ideas. you even helped me out when I was attempting to figure out my own designs, before they even hit CD. just FYI: Until yesterday, I thought you were a mentor. thanks again.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

As you choose to move on, good luck and I hope to see you someday.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention once again. I would go further, though, and say that someone with a differing opinion who expresses it graciously is VERY GP. For we cannot grow and change as we need to if everyone sits there and says "Yea" to everything that someone above us proposes; sometimes we need to give a different view. For example, the idea of starting a team that would be elite from the start is a new one, and possibly should be tried sometime.

We'll miss you.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I for one totally supported that idea when it was started and I still stand to it. It should be done.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

You will be missed, you CAD stuff is truly amazing and I am sorry that you feel you must leave. Good luck in everything you do.

(BTW, I agree, I always assumed you were a mentor.)

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

There's been a saying around these parts:
'your second year as a team member is your first year as a mentor.'

I do not know who originally said that, maybe someone will post and tell us.

It sounds like Craig has done a good job of making that a true and wise statement.

And here's a thought about thinking differently: if we were supposed to think in a cookie cutter fashion, we'd all be making cookies and that would be all we would make/achieve. Nothing wrong with that - but this is FIRST and as we are always encouraged to do by many of our FIRST leaders, including members of the GDC, it's ok to think outside the box - think differently. It may have something to do with that innovation thing...maybe something to do with inspiration, as well.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Your CADs will be missed.

Sam N.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

That would be Jay Trzaskos. I'm slightly rather alarmed that I knew that.

Link to Confirm

On a more serious note, I don't spend nearly as much time on CD/FIRST as a used to, but I've noticed similar trends with regard to people pulling the "GP Card" all the time. It's never been pulled at me, so its been much more a grumbling point for myself. Its too bad it got to you Craig, good luck wherever you after this.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

This is sad that something like this has to happen. I will definitely miss your CAD's.

Goodbye, I hope this shows a lesson to all FIRSTers

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Craig,

I just tried to use your CD contact info to send you an email - The attempt failed. CD tells me it failed because you no longer wish to receive emails through CD....

If you are still paying enough attention to CD to see this (or if someone else knows how to forward this to Craig), please send me an email (see my sig info below) - We can commiserate :)

In what was perhaps a similar situation, you could certainly color me surprised after some of the __ (adjectives fail me) messages and replies I got when I stirred the prejudices of some other folks in this thread http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=66664

You would have thought I was advocating the downfall of human civilization instead of looking for a dispassionate discussion of whether the non-linear nature of the alliance drafting processes of typical FIRST-related competitions can create some odd situations that can lead to counter-intuitive strategies.

I haven't chosen to pull the plug. Maybe there is a third option. Beware false dichotomies.

Blake

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I know where you're coming from.

Although i haven't been insulted much on CD, i have noticed a sort of aversion to my posts. while many people look at them, no one responds, even to simple questions i ask to try and get help.

a few months back, one of my posts hit 1000 views, and only one or two responses,

and, whats worse, almost every post i've ever set on CD, has hit 200 views, and only a coupple have had more than 2 replies!

I know it might seem unrelated, but i've felt somewhat let down by CD users when a post asking a question will sit sometimes over 3 months before a single reply.

I'll be sad to see you go, but may soon folow you out the door.

I've been a great fan pf your cad, and hope you'll keep putting up pictures every oce and a while.

-Z

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

You guys think it's bad here?
You ought to try other boards and I'd think you'd appreciate the CD community alot more than you do. It's like these other boards don't even have moderators and 75% of the postings are nothing more than personal attacks.
Trust me. CD is an oasis in the wasteland that is the internet.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

People misuse GP because they see Dean as some sort of whimsical cross between the Nutty Professor and Mister Rogers and think that FIRST is Disney World and we're all going to happily hold hands around the campfire and sing happy songs all day long.
It's not anything near that.
In fact GP is really not a judgmental tool it's an operation procedure on how to work alongside ANY FIRST team, whether you like them or not.
It's not about being nice to one another. It's about finding common ground in spite of whatever differences you may or may not have to get the job done.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Craig, I'll miss you, every time I see your avatar a logical and kind response is below it. You post some of the most amazing CAD i have ever seen. My first question ever posted on CD was answered by you, Sorry to see you go:(

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I know why you are doing this. I don't blame you one bit. I think you should take a break but not completely give up.

Max Ehrmann said this in a poem [I had to memorize in English] called Desiderata:

With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.


... http://mwkworks.com/desiderata.html .. The whole thing is quite neat actually.

Pavan.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I am going to be very blunt on this post and I don't care a BIT if anyone has to disagree with me. Also, there are quiet a few things I agree upon that you pointed out in your post.

We are not all the same people and we don't think the same. Heck I know you and me had some disagreements on different things. So what? Does that mean, any of us walked away?

As many would agree with me on this one (or at least I hope they will), in the real world, its about competition. It's about politics (even though I am sure a lot of us don't like that). We are slowly experiencing that. Does that mean you have to give up?

I am sure there are many people who doesn't like me here on CD. And... ask me if I care? I will still voice my opinion if I think it's worth it. For that, if I am to receive a negative rep, it doesn't matter to me. They are only green dots. The students' lives that I have touched or passed my knowledge onto often tell me how much they appreciate me and that's enough for me.

I was having a conversation with a good friend of mine who said, "A person should know to do what you love despite what other people say." I find it a good advice for members here on CD and for members involved in FIRST.

With that being said, as Jane said, "Stay;" that's the only thing I want to say as well. It is your decision after all. If I don't see you here around on CD, good luck with all the projects you are involved in and I am sure you will do great.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I agree with that..I know I'll be taking a long break from FIRST and CD over the summer, starting to plan out stuff for colleges and the rest of high school. Just chill for a while.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

No....:eek:

I've been idolizing your CAD drawings for the last couple months, I even have a bulletin board across my wall with lots of CAD drawings, many from yourself. Basically, your crazy and cool swerve drawings is what first introduced me into CAD, since then, I've "played" more on Autodesk Inventor than my previous gaming addiction (Guild Wars, Warcraft, etc...). Thanks for your inspiration! Stay in touch!

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

To second what Jane has said, here's another good quote:

Craig,

If you choose to leave then 'they' have won. I understand the feelings (PM me for my political issues I've faced in the last 4 months) but to leave only strengthens those who do not understand what GP really is all about.

GP is a code which is lived by, not a yardstick to measure others by.

I'm sorry if some have tried to judge you (using 'GP' as their yardstick ... again PM me about this, I know how you feel) but now is the time to stand up to 'them', because it's easy to be a leader when things go right, but it shows the true mettle of a leader when you feel you are being tested by those you have respected and looked up to.

CD is a place for discussion of ideas, even ones that are not popular. If you do choose to leave I will miss your posts and your skills and FIRST will have lost a good person. It is my hope that you reconsider.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Oh come on guys, he's moving on with his life. Despite what some people have thought, this is healthy and good. It's not good to stay around leeching off that once great feeling of competing in HS. I wish Craig all the luck in the world and I know he will do great things and make engineering more interesting and inspire others, with or without FIRST.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Joe - When I read his swan song message, I get a different impression - Blake

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Craig, You will be missed. Your CAD drawings have helped me understand some of the most complex systems in FIRST. I've always looked up to you because you were one of the very few to challenge people here. And you did it in such a way that was professional beyond anyone I've ever met our age. You've also been one of the very few to challenge the politics of CD and FIRST in general. We all see it happen and we let it happen. I've seen many of your posts labeled by others as UN-GP and I think that they're fine and they're within the what is right on the topic. But they must be read throughly to be understood. I'm sad to see you go, you will be missed by many.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

First off, I hate to see you go. As stated above, I think that a break is healthy if that is what you are after. At my high school, I was the best draftsmen for two years. There was only one in the school I considered my equal in skill. You, however, have always been my goal. I would love to compete against you in CAD despite my certainty of defeat. It would just be an honor.

Secondly, I can't think of a single thing you have said that was the least bit GP and I would like to defy anyone here to find me a post worthy of a red dot.

In my opinion: If you aren't willing to get attacked for your opinions, then they aren't very strong opinions and are not worth having.

WARNING: Any of you that thinks that you can control GP by annoying any who disagree, know that there will always be another that appears where the other has left. Know, that though you might have gotten rid of Craig, I have no intention of letting his ideals leave with him.

Anyone who wants, give me red dots. I've worked hard to earn them. I've been careful to make sure my every word was kind. Making sure to make no enemies. I will not be doing this in the future. In the past I've let annoyances slide, but this is the last straw. I, for one, take your attacks upon Craig as attacks upon the community and myself. I will not forget.

You and I have never met, but I am certain that if we went to the same school, we would have been good friends.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

In reply to everyone who is relating this to dots, just a reminder, that's all they are, dots. They have no power over your attitude, personality, or beliefs.
Craig, I am going to miss you. I have always looked up to your points of view as you have brought in some interesting ones that have made me think. I wish you would stay, but if you feel this is what you need to do then this is what you need to do. Just remember, don't let that 5% of people ruin the other 95% of us.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

you will be missed. your perspective on FIRST and the things that are involved with it are ones i look up to. ive been in situations where the lack of knowing what GP is has gotten to a point to where im moving on im with you in your fight and someday it will get better.

best wishes :)

...forest

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

And some people need to get angry to let go.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I don't know about this quitting CD business, kinda actually makes sense, seeing how you’re going off to college (I should probably do the same lol :o)...

But I think your real gripe is not with CD at all but with 114. Ever since they kicked you off you've been kind of upset and its shown in your posts (probably why people negative repped you).

I'm pretty good friends with some of the people on your team so I have a rough idea of why you got kicked off. For the sake of privacy I won't share that here, but it involved some sort of a fight over robot design/construction...

If there's one thing I've learned from being the "head engineer" for my team its "never give up." People will constantly find problems with everything you design and build - sometimes going so far as to ridicule you. Even worse, sometimes physics finds problems with your designs :ahh: , and people are like “I told you so!” But guess what. That's what engineering is all about. If nobody pointed out the problems, the robot wouldn't work.

Take criticism as advice, listen to people's ideas (even if they're really stupid ideas), be patient, synthesize ideas, and never, EVER, GIVE UP!

-Martin T.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I know for a fact that many people do not see eye to eye with me (take my views on GP), and I couldn't have said it any better.

You will always make enemies whenever you post because not everyone agrees on the same things.

Don't change for anyone.

Pavan.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I'm not of the belief that this is the intent or purpose of Chief Delphi. It is a place for sharing knowledge and information, perspectives, and humor. In the process, it has created community.

Sharing opinions can present different perspectives, viewpoints, and experiences. The opinions can be presented clearly and appropriately and the threads do not have to spin themselves into ugly exchanges and rudeness. Each poster can bring respect to the topic, whether agreeing with it or not. And, people can refrain from posting and keep their thoughts to themselves if they have nothing of value to contribute or are intent on flaming. That can take a little will power and self-control but that's ok, too.

If I receive red reps, I consider the source, decide if I I feel I merited them, and move on. I do that with green ones as well.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I'm confused by all the "Don't change" posts in this thread.
Maybe "change" is exactly what is called for in this situation. Either self-change, or a change of scenery.

You either need to:
-Learn to deal with the conflicts you're in.
-Change to avoid the conflicts.
-Move on to somewhere where the way you are will cause less conflict.

Either way, some sort of change is important. Craig has seemingly chosen the 3rd option.

Social interactions sometimes result in conflict. Some of these are positive conflicts, some of them are negative conflicts. "I'm sick of fighting with people so I'm leaving" is not a constructive solution; it is just a way of playing a martyr.

It is possible that none of this is your fault. If that is the case, then great... move on. The rest of us will shrug, and life will go on.

A wise man once told me: "If you continually find yourself in negative conflict with people, they probably aren't the problem, you are; it is probably a good idea to change the way you approach your social interactions & the way you communicate."

Something you are doing is causing these conflicts and maybe some self reflection could help you understand why. This is an opportunity for self-improvement.

I don't believe "beliefs" are usually the problem. It is rare that someone makes enemies of enlightened people because of their beliefs. Most of us are capable of "live and let live" philosophies. Disagreements happen, but they are often very constructive. Negative conflict (in my experience) stems primarily from problems of communication.

You don't necessarily need to change your beliefs for the benefit of others, but perhaps you can change the way you express them.

If you find that you can't fit into the community, and you won't change to fit, then maybe leaving is the correct solution. Maybe you will find some place where you do fit in.

Good Luck with whatever you're doing.

-John

PS - A farewell POST is just a cry for attention; not a farewell.
You don't want to leave, and I bet you're probably reading this right now.

What sort of attention do you want? If you'd like to message me I'll be happy to talk things over with you.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I think something I noticed about all the bad relationships and situations I have been in my life is that the ONLY thing that remains constant in them is
MY PRESENCE...

Thanks for the insight John.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Awesome Post. Really, everyone should read it entirely.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

John, as always you exude maturity well beyond your years. You also had the courage to say what I was afraid to. Thanks for bringing your thoughts forward.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Wow, John (VN), nice post! I don't know Craig, but he is obviously somebody who has spent a lot of time and invested a lot of effort in FIRST. While your comments may seem harsh, in my experience they ring very true. I hope Craig takes you up on your offer for discussion.

(OK, my opinion of JVN is NOT unbiased!)

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

JVN is a very wise man. I knew that before this post, but this post certainly reinforced that for me. The first point he made that I've quoted is definitely good food for thought for all of us reading this post. The second thing I've quoted is also a very good point. It made me think about myself, and I think this thread has brought up a good opportunity for self-reflection for all of us. Finally, after reading this thread about seven times, I'm going to agree with JVN on his PS note. I was thinking nearly the same thing, but he phrased it better than I could have.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I believe that if he is was unfairly judged for thinking differently, that he shouldn't have to change what he thinks and feels. I mean, once you've posted and done it in the kindest, most non-inflammatory way possible, and people still say nasty things(and I don't mean red dots), then you are not the problem. I think we may be going a step too far to say he wants attention from a last post, but maybe he just wants to lay out what he thinks, and why he's doing what he's doing. Yes, he may be looking at these, but just to see what happens. Maybe he doesn't "fit in", but I thought that FIRST accepted anyone, no matter what. Yes, maybe Craig should've learned to roll with the punches, but, you know, that can get tiring after a while, trying to shrug off personal attacks. I've had that happen to me before, not in here, but in other situations. It is difficult when people keep telling you that you're wrong, or to be quiet, or that you don't fit in a certain group or area so get out. Maybe its all a big misunderstanding; I just feel that no one should be made to feel like this. Whether or not it was the best possible choice, he did what he thought was best.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Folks/John,

I think that John's message is useful and interesting; but off-target at this moment.

When I reviewed several months of CraigHickman posts, I did not see any reason for him to have received unusual flak over any of the recent ones.

However, he tells us that he did receive recent private messages that he felt were degrading and/or "assaults" from 10 or more separate people; some of whom he had "looked up to" before the recent exchanges. Think about it: 10 separate people saw fit to recently send him harshly critical messages rather than write public posts that would have expressed their viewpoints with equal vehemence or perhaps more civilly.

Dang - That sounds like the problem that needs to be addressed - Hopefully those 10 folks will read some of KathieK's advice (and John's too while they are at it:)).

Craig could air that dirty laundry by posting the contents of those messages publicly, and then see the lid really blow off the pot as people both take sides in the "debates" that ensue, and become worried about FIRST's public image being tarnished because CD members occasionally light a few flames.

Instead he seems to have taken into account that people are often more upset that a problem is made public than they are about the problem existing; and so has decided to move on.

Like I said, John's advice is worth remembering, but for me it doesn't line up well with my perception of this situation.

Blake
PS: No, I don't think that we should grab pitchforks and torches, and then go find those 10 other people.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I've thought about the PM aspect of this and what I've come up with is that no one is immune. PMs can be as thoughtful and well-written as some posts in the fora. They can also be hastily written with little attempt at a civil tone. I've been the recipient of both types of PMs and I think it is fairly common. Are the PMs that cause ill feelings, good? No. Can more care be taken when crafting the message? Likely. Are the PMs anyone's business? No, unless a moderator is contacted for help. The PM aspect is none of our collective business. That said, how we communicate either publicly or privately in ChiefDelphi, shows the measure of our maturity and our professionalism in conducting ourselves as members of FIRST.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

awesome post JVN
could not have put it better myself


everyone should really read the post in its entirety

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

While I agree with you that CraigHickman has never posted anything worthy of a negative comment or an excessively critical PM (quite frankly I have almost never seen anything worthy of this on CD) I think the fact that this thread exists shows that at least to a certain amount Craig needed to think longer about the situation. If he wasn't feeling hurt and in need of venting he would have informed his closer friends and left it at that. Even though he didn't directly air his dirty laundry, to a certain amount he has and IMO JVN hit the nail on the head when he said it was a cry for attention.

I have seen farewell threads on numerous other forums and they always fill me with a certain amount of shame in the community that I'm a part of. But much more importantly they always seem to be posted by a person who I had a great deal of respect for, who posted interesting threads, put forward new and perhaps controversial ideas and was a large part of that community. While this is usually the reason that they are leaving it always causes me to loose a lot of the respect that I one held for that person.

I don't tend to be a large part of online communities (or for that matter local communities) and this is something that I'm always trying hard to work on. Someday I hope to have as much presence here as Craig still seems to, despite leaving, and that he rethinks his decision, or at least takes up many of the people on their offers to help him resolve the conflict.

I will miss seeing his excellent CAD work in the gallery and his thought provoking posts on the forums. I'm not going to try and tell him their "just dots" because I put more importance in my own "dots" than that but I do hope he takes the negative comments less personally.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Reading these replies, I see a divergence in the philosophy of the posters. Of the two camps asking Craig to stay, there are those who say he should keep on plugging despite the adversity, and those who say that he should look within himself for a solution.
I tend to fall in the third camp. If Craig wants to leave CD for a while, that is entirely his right. I agree with a lot of the grievances he has with this forum. Yes, this forum is sterling compared to the majority of other forums on the internet, but you can't excuse your own failure just because no one else seems to be getting it right. Craig makes some good points, and I think we should all learn from them (like JVN is proposing to Craig) instead of getting our dander up. In reality, there are no sides to this issue. I think it's pretty clear that if he isn't back now, he won't be back. He's done with high school and he's moving on to a new stage of life. I am too. I might post on CD from time to time, but college is my time to be selfish. I'm taking a break from FIRST to focus on my own life, my own studies, and my own betterment. I think Craig's doing the same. He's just reached his own breaking point, and he needs to spend some time to work it out alone. Let him go in peace.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I really don't see how this is a big deal. If he wants to leave, so be it.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Because, if someone leaves because of our actions, even if some of us think they are wrong to do so, should we really just go "eh, who cares?"

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

It is sometimes unsettling to discover that the only thing in life that we can truly control is ourselves. We often want others around us to change but we can’t force them to do so. We can however be a catalyst for change. We can be forceful or eloquent in stating our desires for change but ultimately change itself is personal. I will note that societies use education, laws, coercion and punishment as effective implements to encourage change. FIRST uses inspiration (among many other things).

Understanding this changes nothing (in that your surrounding environment isn’t affected) and yet it changes everything (in that your outlook can be completely different). This observation applies to work, marriage, handling crisis… anywhere really. When confronted with conflict, I have tried to condition myself to ask “How do I want to respond?” Many times though, just like Pavlov’s dogs, I just “react” and later sort out the consequences. Importantly though reflecting on these reactions, consequences and my desired behavior often leads me to want to change myself.

So from philosophical to constructive… I think JVN has it nailed in terms of Craig’s possible personal responses. However, we ALL have the opportunity to change as well. Craig’s note is feedback that can be used constructively as a catalyst for us to change ourselves or… we could shrug and change nothing.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

There is a big difference between leaving on good and bad terms. Many people do take a break from FIRST as they leave high school, it's typically a "We'll miss you, you should come to *insert regional here* for a day or two, to see what you missed, and we can't wait to see you back in a year or two!" Craig seems to have left on a much sourer note. If he's left feeling badly about the situation, I don't see much of a reason why he'd want to come back to FIRST period.

I think if Craig wanted to leave to do his own thing, he would have a departure similar to the first scenario I mentioned. However, he left essentially saying, "Some of you guys have problems respecting ideas. I can't take that. I'm leaving." He even enumerated how many there were, opening a whole new can of worms. He didn't air an entire basket of dirty laundry, but he started emptying it, and left the rest of it barely out of reach. I think that's why there's such a huge discussion, and what prompted John's response.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Dude, i totally agree...and Rocketperson, I'm 100% sure that Craig knows of his own actions, everyone should just back off because he's made up his mind, and if you've actually read his posts and have seen how he argues and supports his ideas, you would know that he will not be changing his mind about leaving CD.

Just let it go..seriously.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I'm not saying that he dosen't have a right to leave, or that he is going to be back here any minute. I'm saying that we should look at ourselves, and why he left. His post is dead on. This should be the reason for the discussion, not an effort to drag Craig back here.


Picture CD (the forums, not FRC#47) as a FRC team. If a mentor decided to leave your own team for similar reasons, would you say "oh well, we'll just keep on doing what we've been doing," or would you stop and think about why they left? You cannot and should not force that person back, but you can at least think about what caused it.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

There is much wisdom in these last few posts.
Perhaps addressing how we work together and communicate with each other in Chief Delphi and how those interactions impact the community is stuff for another thread, esp. if the discussion is going to continue to reflect differing opinions.

This thread is basically a swan song...I would hate to see it crumple into frustrated emotional posts.

.02

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I've been following this thread, and I finally decided to throw a pair of pennies in...

I've seen the phrase "cry for attention" thrown about a good bit. Perhaps the community should consider whether it's a call for attention to, not Craig, but the actions of the community.

Telling people to deal with this issue or that person is all well and good, but the flip side of the same advice is to consider whether YOUR actions have at any point made you a person to be dealt with rather than enjoyed.

Every person should be able to deal with every other person...but no one should ever want to be the one who's dealt with. Expect of yourself that which is too high for you to expect of others, and you'll never be undeservedly disappointed.

[/$.02]

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I think this is an excellent point. In order for CD to be a place where people feel welcome, I think we need to look closely at what we say and do here. I think that the younger posters sometimes forget their manners, and the older posters sometimes forget they're dealing with teenagers. CD needs to be a safe haven for ideas, thoughts, beliefs, and also mistakes. This is especially true when someone questions the establishment. If Craig, or anyone else, questions FIRST or the FIRST community in a mature, polite way, we should look at what he or she is saying, rather than shun the heretic. I think many CDers are quick to ostracize anyone who doesn't adhere to the FIRST party line. FIRST is not perfect. FIRST teams are not perfect. Even Woody, Dean, and Dave are not perfect. The only way we're going to approach perfection is if we listen to the people with ideas instead of calling them ungrateful or un-GP.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Then he should have posted in one of the several existing threads about that issue, such as this one. He even posted in that thread. He may have attempted to make it seem like that's what this thread is about, but in reality he's attempting to martyr himself to this cause.
If he decided that he no longer feels his time is best invested on these forums, so be it.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Many of those threads are JUST pretty faces. People see them, read them, agree with them, and keep on doing what they do. It may not be what is supposed to happen but you know as well as I do that is the case. Just because we read something and think its a good idea doesn't necessarily mean we follow it.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Many valued members of the "ChiefDelphi" community have left over the years, whether disappearing completely or just posting rarely (if ever). There has been little to no outcry for their return. Possibly because there has always been someone to step up and take that place in the community, qualified or not, correct or not, knowledgeable or not.

This voluntary community is just a small percentage of the FIRST community's overall sphere of influence. In fact, CD is rarely, if ever, a catalyst for change. The opinions set forth here are often underthought, overwritten, and/or spewing sticky-sweet affirmations toward others. It took me a while to learn that lesson, and I've learned it well. If you are convinced that ChiefDelphi is a happy community of gracious individuals who are ultimately humble and dedicated to this program, you will find yourself very outdated.

I'm sure that a reporter doing research on the program, reading CD, would be horrified to learn just how much we crucify our own members, while both simultaneously praising and damning the charity that works seemingly for our benefit. Somehow, this community has grown to believe that the FIRST organization should be listening to us, because WE are the customers, WE give them our money, and WE are the ones they are trying to benefit.

There is little to no consideration for the fact that perhaps, just maybe, there are people who disregard CD entirely because of the disgusting behavior displayed (or see it for what it is) and perhaps, they are the ones making the change for reasons we cannot see or refuse to understand. By circumventing the cesspool of opinions they are getting a direct line to help create policies with which the public is not always happy. However, because the largest online community's opinions are muddled and cannot always be trusted, these grave mistakes go untouched and often are not changed until the right people can get through to the top.

From vilifying members, having the audacity to demand that which you have no right, and martyring those that declare they are fed up, this forum has degraded into an online record-book of ignorant, passionate, spur-of-the-moment posts. Few if any bother to think of the repercussions on their personal being, their team entity, or even on FIRST as a whole prior to hitting the "Submit Reply" button. I have spoken with others who regard CD as the pit in which good opinions and ideas go to die. Do these people bother to let the CD community know? Of course not. That which you disregard no longer matters.

People like the one that started this thread are making a cry. Whether or not that is for change or for their personal benefit is for you to decide. However, if disregarding that which no longer matters is the solution, and if denouncing a community and vowing not to return is the answer, why turn your profile private so that others can no longer see when you are signing on to read if your catalyst and personal martyrdom worked?

I have to admit that I copied off another that posted in this thread after reading what many wanted to say but few wanted to bother. After all, posts like this and all that came before it are sparking discussion - precisely what Mr. Hickman wanted. I guess he wins through us losing.

Before you continue posting, consider this: what benefit is your post having? I think if more of you considered that thoroughly instead of opening mouths without clearly thinking through repercussions, purpose, backlash, etc., you'd realize that this microcosm of the FIRST community does not depend on every member and what they, personally, believe is right for FIRST. The entitlement many of you will feel after reading this non-existent. People will continue fighting, taking relevant threads to the doghouse, beating dead horses, and posting irrelevant drivel whether or not they are policed. ChiefDelphi will continue whether you are here or not. The sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.

There are a great many people who have offered great advice to folks in the past. It's true - amongst all of the stupid, unwanted, irrelevant things posted on CD, every once in a while a tidbit of useful information or actual relevant advice slips through. But the ratio of that which does not matter to that which matters is steadily becoming more and more out of balance.

There is a reason, a purpose, a true and bona fide function why CD exists. It is not always for me or for you. I believe it was Francisco D'Anconia who said, "You cannot have your cake and let your neighbor eat it too." In this case, you cannot have your right to trash and maim others with your strong opinions and let others do the same, under the banner of a 'graciously professional' community.

But good luck trying.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I think the OP is a teenager.

One thing that CD gets right is having the mix of ages involved in the fora spanning age differences, backgrounds, generations, and experience. I would venture a guess and say it can be hard for teenagers to express thoughts and opinions in CD. It probably gets easier but I don't know, I'm not a teenager.

In every team, there are students who stick. They enter the team and stay. There are students who enter the team, stay for a while and leave. Some don't even stay a while, they just move on. Sometimes, there are students who enter the team and the hope is that they'll stick around and realize some of their potential as a team member.

I think the same can be true in CD. Students, alumni, mentors, etc., exchanging ideas and information. There is nothing wrong with that. Even when it gets a little tough. It is sad when a student leaves a team and it can be sad when they leave CD. I've heard that many valuable contributors have left CD or don't post and that is a loss for everyone who could glean knowledge and wisdom from them. It is their choice, that is true, but it can still be seen as lost opportunity by some.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

We all also need to remember, we have only heard one side of this story. So, until we hear both sides, it would be wise for all of us to refrain from any sort of judgment on this situation. Maybe it is time to let this thread rest.

Don't get me wrong, the discussion has much merit, but as mentioned by others, it needs to be discussed in the threads that already exist on the subject.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Well, I must say that I am some what appalled by some of the remarks here. He says that he has had enough of people complaining to him and that he is going to leave. So, what do we do? We complain to him. A friend of yours is going to leave and decides to tell everyone. Do you tell him to stay? Do you question his reasons for leaving? It seems to me, that alot of people are doing either or both of these. To me, this seems rude. This may be none of my business, but as I promised earlier in this thread. I don't care. As long as you attack one man's ideals you are attacking the community itself. Just lay off of him and let him be.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

This thread is no different, other than the original poster intentionally martyred himself instead of later getting crucified for acting on the ideals.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I may have missed something. At what point did he become the martyr? He is still alive and well. He just chose to leave. A martyr kills himself to inspire his cause. He just left a message after decided to leave. He had no intention of raising tension. He did not kill himself. He just chose to say good bye. If I missed something, please give me a quote of where he made himself a martyr. Otherwise, please stop making false allegations.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I think that this thread is starting to evolve into discussion which rivals the issue Craig brought up in his original post. It's apparent that some reflection of the issues at hand is necessary, but perhaps we all need to take a break and allow for some self-reflection before we continue to turn this thread into an ironic expression of the very qualms that caused Craig to leave.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I'm starting to think that this thread should be closed. We have already said nearly everything that can short of the personal attacks that this thread was started up against. In short of that, everyone, please read the origional post a few times before posting in this thread. As Pavan said, we are just reading these ideas, and then ignoring them. Craig left for a reason, and we should at least notice what that reason was, and not just keep on doing exactly what caused him to leave.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Yup, you did miss something. The word martyr has more meanings than killing oneself to further a cause.

I believe this is the definition that Sean was getting at.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I agree with Joe here. This thread is starting to get a little hostile, and I really hope it doesn't turn into a flame war. These forums certainly don't need anymore of that. This thread should stay civil, and if no one has anything else new to say, or the thread does degrade into a flame war, it probably does deserve to be closed.

EDIT: I fully believe that people should express their views. I also believe, and see proof of every day on CD, that views can, and should be expressed without hostility. Hostility leads to flaming. Flaming puts a sad scar on this community. Also, there is no point in beating a dead horse by saying something that has been said many times already by other posters.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Well I have read the whole thread, and now I am going to completely ignore what everyone else has said and say what I think. I'm going to go on two perspectives.

First of all, rudeness in the world should not exist. People get mad when someone tells them something mean. World conflicts, divorces, government issues, pesky neighbors, racism... all are caused by conflict. Is there anyway to avoid all conflict, no, but each of us (the world) can do our part to make the world a better place. I never tell anyone they are stupid, an idiot, or anything else rude unless it is in a cheerful and joking manner, even then it may not be acceptable. Almost everyday at robotics one of the team members calls me stupid for giving my opinion, even opinions that turn out to be correct.

Me, I just ignore whatever that person says. Some people are just rude because that is there personality, no matter how much everybody else hates it. Volunteers in FIRST have been rude to me before, and I just take it as a fact that people have their own problems and take it out on the first person they meet.

While I cannot even come close to promising that things will get better, you are the only one that can make a difference. If you believe that what these people have said to you is reason enough to leave FIRST, then you should contact the appropriate people to attempt to have this problem fixed so it does not happen to someone else. The damage is already done. What you must do is try to fix the damage before the damage comes back and hurts someone else.

(Going with the posts above)
I believe this thread is not only a cry for help, but a warning to those who do have done these things that it will come back to haunt them. FIRST is an organization that focuses on "Gracious Professionalism" and everyone involved in the organization should exemplify these standards, not just the teams.

EDIT:
I just re-read Craig's post, and I have one more thing to say. I'm talking about the part where he said a power-delusional person kicked him off the team.

I believe the problem with a lot of this world is the use of vertical communication (and if Coach Rusty reads this for some odd reason, I hope I represent you well, as this has really made me think about how people organize businesses).

Vertical communication is a way of communicating from a boss or leader and going down the ladder to the lowest person such as the person who cleans up after everyone is done. Vertical communication corrupts. Also, thought I might add this quote in from somewhere "absolute power corrupts absolutely."

On our team we use horizontal communication. Everybody is basically equal and have the same opportunities. I am the team leader/president/boss so to speak, but on any given day, you would not be able to tell this unless you were on the team and you received emails from me once a week on upcoming events. I do not boss people around and I hate to make anyone mad. I try to do my best to be patient and practice gracious professionalism all the time (to prove it, I taught about 10 elementary and middle school students how to program their VEX robots with MPLAB today). I delegate my tasks to everyone else. Whenever someone has a problem or a question they come to me and I will try to send them to the right person if I cannot help. Today I took out the trash at Fusion, a job that would be looked upon by most as disgusting, especially since whatever was in that bag has had a few days to ripen after all the rain lately. I guess really our team is setup without a president. I'm like the secretary. I have no power to do anything, but I relay information to the team. The only person who has the power to kick someone off the team is the teacher, and he can only do so based on people's behavior and grades. I also look at that person like I would a co-worker. He's not special in anyway except he's the teacher and the one that buys everything and makes sure everyone's grades are up to par.

Here is a good article of what I'm trying to convey: http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/c...full/40/24/4-a

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

This is still going on! My god as I said before, I see no reason for this to be a big deal. He just said he was leaving the forums. It's not like he's dropping out of school or something important. And just because he decides to leave the forum doesn't mean he won't be involved in FIRST. This whole thread has been blown way out of proportion. We've lost sight of the actual topic at hand and I think it's time we retired this thread.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Martyr is a strong word. I would not use it lightly.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

ok, so here's a thought...
yup, another one...

In most cases, the OP can request the thread closed at any time.
In this case, I dunno but perhaps you could.

Another catch to this thread is that we have moderators posting in it so I'm not sure how that works. Maybe you could PM Mr. Mike Martus and ask him to close the thread or ask his advice - if you feel that it is warranted.

The thread seems to be sort of roller coaster-ish but hasn't totally degenerated into 'crumple' yet. That's an .02 though, nothing more.

I think I am finished with posting here. Play nice people.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Wow Amanda, that's painting with a rather broad brush, is it not? I agree that there is chaff to sort through to find the really important posts. But I continue to visit CD just to find that good stuff. I can pick and choose topics to read based on my interest. Still, we have some of the "greats" of the program that come to post here (and I include you in that assessment) - without which, we would be sorely deficient in getting good information. So if your point was only intended to be "play nice, or all the good people will go home", then I agree.

Back to Craig, I don't recall a lot about him. I don't think I ever met him, nor do I recall anything specific about his posts like some of the others on this thread have stated. I wasn't aware of any of his difficulties with a team. I do seem to recall him as being a contentious person. That's not necessarily bad - sometimes we need people who will stick up for what they believe in, even if they ruffle a few feathers doing it. People like Gandhi, MLK Jr, and the Founding Fathers come to mind. The contentious person must realize that his or her opinions will not be popular with everyone. If that only means red dots or flaming posts, I think that person has not been unduly harmed. The contentious person will also have to realize that some people will argue and attempt to point out the error of his ways. That can be handled more or less professionally and graciously - but just because someone disagrees with you and tries to point out errors in your arguements doesn't mean you are being crucified.

Craig is at a transition point in his life. If he chooses to find another outlet for his talents, and another inlet for continued inspiration, that is up to him. That happens to many people, and it's beneficial. In fact I think there are far too many who attempt to hang on too long after they graduate, trying to relive their HS years on the team after that part of their life is ended. We all have to move on or move up at some point. Craig has chosen to move on. It would be more critical if he had come here and said, "I'm going into my senior year, but because of the treatment I've received I'm going to leave my team and just chuck it."

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Some have asked for the other side to the story, the other side to the reason CraigHickman has decided to leave CD and the FIRST Community. As Co-captain of 114 in 2007 and involved mentor in 2008, I could give the CD community that story, but I know that the public forums is no place to air a team's dirty laundry, I've been around CD long enough to know that.

Statements like this are nothing more than a personal attack, and I do not wish to do anything of the sort with this post. All I ask is that the CD community would not jump to any conclusions as to the integrity of Team 114 or its members.

Craig, I wish you the best of luck in college and beyond.

Thank you,
Michael C.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

Well that pretty much says enough for me. I'm glad someone from 114 said something.

I think this whole thread was unnecessary really and is just an example of off-season forum venting. If you want to leave, then by all means leave, but don't make a fuss while doing it. Good luck in your endeavors.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

This thread was finally finished, and you bring it back up? A guy left, he is gone, no need to insult him now.

Re: Farewell, Chief Delphi.
 

I second that. There's plenty of stuff happening on my team that angers me. MANY people that I don't like. But I'm not going to post about it on here because I know that nobody wants to hear me complaining.