Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

So...
We've seen them each win regionals, and together win the championship event. There is no question that they are a GREAT alliance. But are they the best? Is there an alliance that could beat 1114, 217, and 148? Or not?
What do you think?

This thread was inspired by this thread.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Nobody is unbeatable. I don't even have to look at their bots to tell you yes. They are beatable. Now the question is, are they going to be beat? don't know. Just going to wait and see.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

They did lose a semifinal match on Einstein, as I recall. So they are beatable. The question is, is it possible to beat them twice with the same alliance?

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

In terms of mechanical ability Simbotics was no better then other top scoring robots (1024 comes to mind). Where 1114, 217, and 148 really shine is in there drivers which did an amazing job.

Unbeatable... no, you just better bring all you have to the table when playing against them.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Don't forget to stock up on luck. You'll need some of that too.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Where these 3 teams shine (and others as well), is in the amazing pool of dedication and experience of the coaches working tirelessly with the drivers and the drivers being receptive to them and to the demands of the challenge. It showcases the FRC robotics competition at its best in what can be achieved and in commitment. And that is just on the field...:)

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Ya, you need some of that too. :D

A great drive team is like a family, they share a brain. You don't even need to talk to each other to know what each other is thinking. The only way to get this is by TONS of practice and just having a great time with each other. Pick your drive teams early and practice practice practice and when you get tired of practicing well practice more. :P

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

They are beatable. Everyone is beatable. It wouldn't be easy, but there are scorers that are close enough with 217 and 1114 to keep it close and although I was extremely impressed with 148's defense on Galileo (I think), I was less impressed on Einstien, even though their defense was still admirable. Also, even though no one wants this, I saw 148 break down on Galileo, and miss an entire match, that 217 and 1114 won by themselves, and 217 broke a couple times and fell over.

I'd be interested to see an alliance of Speed Racer, (1519's alternate configuration,) with two top of the line scorers against that alliance. Speed racer has gotten 7 or 8 lines in auto at an offseason event with 10+ laps and up to 13 or 14 I think in teleoperated. I know they contributed 56 pts towards their alliance score in one match. I would be very interested to see if that would offset their defensive inefficiency because it would allow 1114 and 217 to score unimpeded, but even with defensive pressure, both robots scored a great deal.

If there is a defensive robot on the opposing alliance, I would have to suggest they focus mainly on defending 217. I thought that 1114 was in a class of its own in how fast and effectively they accuired the ball and were much more difficult to defend, while 217 could be defended much easier. I would love to see them find their way onto the same alliance at IRI, even though I won't be able to see it in person.

EDIT: Fixed an error.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

I think you mean 148, 118 is the Robonauts.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Looking back on this year, I think a combination of 67, 968, and a working 27 could possibly take them hurdling wise... It would still be close though. This is why we have IRI. :)

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Tie their score in hybrid and you have a chance. Hybrid was a huge part in why these teams did so well. When you look up and have to make up 30-50 points against 3 teams that score non-stop, its tough.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

I've said this before and I'll say this again, you CAN NOT declare any FIRST robot or alliance the best or unbeatable unless they have competed against every other robot and/or alliance combination and it won't happen there are just too many teams and too many unknowns, like luck good or bad it plays a part in every competition.

Yes they have lost but they have also won with one robot sitting out and another tipped over those could both be chalked up to luck. No alliance is perfect some might be closer than others but each can still have its flaws.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

You are right they were beaten however, the first semifinal match 1114, 217 and 148 played on Einstein I believe 217 was tipped over. I know that winning with the other team tipped over is still legitimate.

I think that the last semifinal match on Einstein that 1114, 217 and 148 played was a better indication that they are beatable. I beleive 968 missed a premature hurdle and had to turn around to recover, later in the match they shot the ball out of the playing field. In that match I beleive 60 had two breaking the plane penalties as well. Without these mistakes 968 233 and 60 would have advanced to the finals. I know staying mistake free is part of being a good competitor, but I can definitely see 968, 233, and 60 beating 1114, 217 and 148. (obviously not every time though)

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Wups. Yes I do. I especially shouldn't have made that mistake because our team competed on Curie with the Robonauts this year.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

One quick thing 968, 233, and 60 beat 1114, 217, 148 the first two matches. They lost one of those 2 matches because of i think a 50 point penalty. i honestly thought that 968, 233, and 60 were going to win it all.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Technically speaking, they are unbeatable, because the 3 will have no more opportunities to pair up ;)

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

I could see an alliance of 1519's Speed Racer, 968, and 987 possibly beating the 1114, 217, 148 alliance. They would get two balls and 17 lines in hybrid (84 points!). They have two of the best hurdlers and the best lap bot.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

From what I saw of the 2008 season, I don't think that any alliance could realistically form in competition that could beat 1114/217/148 at full strength. The key there is at full strength. Robots tip, robots break--we saw it on Einstein. If one of them threw a chain, or broke a gripper, or got tangled in the overpass, or got tapped just right to stare at the ceiling, all bets are off. (Show of hands, who thought that 342/343/393/804 was going to win Palmetto?)

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Three amazing hurdlers wouldn't be better than two amazing hurdlers.

Just thought I should throw that out. :rolleyes:

As far as an alliance to beat 1114 and 217?

I'd probably go with 39 and 968/254. I wouldn't have any problems putting 987 on a list of teams that could beat The Simchickens, either.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

If anyone remembers this match:

http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv...?matchid=10447

I think the key is to have two robots with decent hybrid grab and hold the balls from 1114, 217 and 148's alliance. I believe this will result in 20 points of penalty. Then have a great scoring team try to make up that 20 point deficeit using the 2 balls availible.

Not a nice way to win, but I think it can be done this way.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

No FRC match can ever be "duplicated". Why? Because I know from experience that one match you could be in tip top shape and the next match you are on three out of four wheels.

Those 3 machines many of you speak of in such a "godly" way tend to forget good ole Murphy! He is a very very good friend of mine that many of you know. When he visits, there is no telling what is going to happen.



Pavan

.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

But you'd get a yellow and possibly red card.

If you're down 1-0, sure, go for it. You've got nothing to lose.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

No alliance is unbeatable, and I think any alliance that has at least two decent hurdlers could stand against a 217, 1114, and 148 alliance by using intelligent strategy and good driving. No one is unbeatable, not ever. However, if you go in believing that you can't win, then you are right. If you go in believing that anything is possible and you can still win, then you are right.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

While I think it is pretty clear that 1114 was THE dominant robot this season, I was surprised by both their alliance picks. Until I realized that they were choosing based perhaps more on people than on machines. Evidently an effective strategy, but perhaps not the optimal alliance. If one were to remove the constraints of the draft order, I think it may have been possible to form a higher scoring alliance based on the teams within that division.

I would also suggest that the one robot design that could have significantly reduced 1114's effectiveness was not built... or at least not used in this way as far as I know.

There is no rule preventing a team from raising a 5' wide bar to a height of 9' or so, and parking just behind their opponent's finish line. The bar would be arranged so that the ball would bounce off it before it fully crossed the overpass. Since the ball had been shot, and was no longer in contact will the launcher, this would not count as "contact during hurdling", and yet the ball would never fully cross the finish line to count as a hurdle. This would have seriously messed up all the launch bots... even if it only blocked 50% of shots, the psychological effect would have the launchers lining up to aim and drastically reducing their rate of scoring.

Jason

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Yes, they are beatable. 968, 233 and 60 proved that by beating them in raw score in two of their three matches. All it would have taken was a missed or bad call (which seem to be common the last couple of years) to have altered the outcome of any of those semi-final matches.

Joe Ross said something to me after 330 won the LA Regional this past year... "There's a lot of luck involved in any victory." He's 100% right. When you were picked, who is available when you're picking, the way certain calls go your way... These are some of the factors that YOU have no control over that can play a major part in a victory (in a match, a regional or a championship).

Not to take anything away from 1114, 217 and 148... They had an amazing alliance. It says a lot when you can go into a divisional semi-final match, down a robot (and choosing not to take the alternate) and still get a victory.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

If it wasn't for 40's Red Card, their alliance would have still won 50-48. That's even with 90 points in penalties for the 333,40,195 alliance and 30 for 1114,217 alliance.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Yeah, 1114 has had an amazing robot for years running, and last year had a very, very capable alliance on curie. But they didn't make it. I'd like to think part of the that difference was luck.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

in this match yes we were talked to and said had we won we would have been issused a yellow card.

also to reference this match and 2nd what rick said, we held them to 28 points in auto which if i belive was the LOWEST all of elims for the 1114 allaince. But also that block was ruled a "intentional block" ala 10pt penalty and a yellow card for intentional impeading and we were warned which was the reason we did not do it in the 2nd match. Looking back we should have since it was still possibly our last match of the year.

http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv...?matchid=10443

As for the 0 ball strategy, if we had a 2nd bot with grabber capabilites like 176 had almost any team can shut any alliance down. Yes you get a yellow card yes it is not "in the spirit of first" but when you are facing the last match of your season you try what you have to to win the match.

*back on topic* yes i belive out of any allaince at nats the 968, 233 alliance had the best chance and could take a 2/3 against 1114, 217, 148

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

If 148 plays like they did in St. Louis and New Orleans, it would be very very very tough (especially if they have the St. Louis hybrid). If they play like they did at Championship, the alliance is very beatable (as shown by the multiple times they flirted with disaster). Either way, there are a number of alliance structures that would be able to pressure the alliance, and a few alliances that can even run-and-gun with them.
I won't go into too much detail, but the keys are fast and effective hurdling, ball control, and keeping it close in hybrid.
The Poof/RAWC twins are perhaps the most dangerous teams to the 1114/217/148 alliance, as they can hang with 1114's scoring, and are quick and agile enough to make it very hard for 148's defensive style to work against them. There are others who could be very trouble-some in this role, such as 27(fully working), 39, 103, or 330. 148 will have a much easier time hindering those three though. 968 and 103 are the only ones who can even come close of these four to matching 1114's hybrid scoring, which means the partners will have to pick up some slack. If a team like 1124 or 365 takes the 2nd slot, with their ability to get and score the trackball while defended and huge hybrid points can compliment the first member extraordinarily well.
The third member will make or break the alliance. 1114 and 217 can both acquire the ball in stick situations, and 1114 made a living of sneaking balls out of corners and seemingly impossible situations. A simple "corner-lock" is very hard to pull off successfully against them without allocating too much scoring. The third partner needs to be able to put up hybrid points, lap quickly, and hamper the opponent's scoring.
201 is the ultimate X-Factor, as when they were on their game, they were a defender without peers. Their ball-driving defense cut down 217's scoring at GLR elims, and held 27 to a single hurdle in an elimination match on Galileo. Other matches they were absolutely abused though. They can even chip in a hurdle if needed.
Other than 201, a few other legitimate possibilities exist. 8 was looked at as the "designated simbot stopper" on Galileo, although 1114 went 3-0 against them. In the right alliance and in a great match they could apply enough pressure. A strong combo-threat like 494/70, 68, or 1771 could also make a difference as the third partner.
There's a lot more to the match-up and game strategy I could go into, but I won't tip my hand too much... ;)
The alliance with the best shot, imho, would be 968/1124/201.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

There is a strategy in going with a three hurdler alliance and with the right game play, three robots could serve as a hurdling advantage over two. (Think missed hurdles that cost matches)

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Any combination of teams can be beat. Some are better than others, but sometimes even things like luck factor in. 1114, 217, and 148 all built great robots that were functional, efficient, and durable, had incredible students, mentors, drive teams, pit crews, and coaches (etc.) supporting them, had obviously done their scouting homework, had great strategy, and were well-matched in that they worked well together. But by the end of the season, in those last few matches on Einstein, there were moments where each of them looked a little bit worn out. It happens, even to the best teams. I'm not sure which teams on an alliance could beat them- there are a lot of good teams, but I'm not sure which ones would have the chemistry and strategy to beat that alliance- but I'm sure it is possible, because no one is infallible, no matter how good they are.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

i Think if 2056 made it to the einstein field they could have maybe beat them with idk towo other alliance partners because in waterloo, there was two matches that 1114 lost, one was because their alliance partners got them 60 points of penatlies and the other one they lost to 2056. it was literally 2056 vs 1114 in that match because they were doing the scoring.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

In those tight corners and how 1114 plays, I personally think parts of 1124's grabber could potentially break. It would be risky to play. I think the Poof/RAWC/201 would work.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

jesuit [portland OR] (2374), catlin gable (1540), 473 :cool:
d-fense, pickup place and hurdle, catapult

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Our gripper is actually a lot more at risk when it's out in the open field without a ball- that's when people latch onto it and rip it apart, and we have to stand there and watch. We can still play with one of our four "fingers" broken though, sometimes even two. Not sure how well it would compare on the Einstein field, though.

I'm gonna have to agree with you that 1124 does not belong in the winning alliance, but for other reasons. As much as I love my team and our robot, I don't think that we can achieve the same efficiency with our arm as a lot of the launcher robots do. The best of the best launcher robots always seem to outscore us, even if only by a little, but a few points here and there add up.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Your hybrid does make up for it though..:)

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

when it works (=

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

You should just take the complement...



Even when our hybrid works, though, I don't think it's enough to counteract 1114's hybrid. And theirs is definitely a bit more consistent than ours. So I still wouldn't put us on the alliance to beat them. We didn't make it too far on Einstein this year.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Yes, they are definitely beatable, as it did happen on Einstein. Beating them twice, though, is very challenging. And if you were to custom-tailor an alliance just to beat those three, it probably wouldn't be able to stand up to other teams or perform as well in other matches.
The alliance I can see beating the SimChickenWranglers consists of 20, 330, and 2106.
The strategy is a total trackball defense one. I would have 20 grab an opponent ball right at the start of tele, incurring a 10 point penalty. 2106 would use its chain driven manipulator to surround an opponent ball and grip it just enough that it is still herded, not possessed, and therefore not incurring any penalties. Then they must stay in the corner holding the ball the whole match.
Meanwhile, 20 would be lapping like crazy with their bot while playing keep-away with the trackball, to try and overcome the penalty points. I can see them getting 7-9 laps in tele, so that's 14-18 points.
Lastly, 330 would need to use its ability to herd while possessing to control both of its trackballs, and double hurdle every chance it can get. I don't see the other alliance trying to play the same trackball possession game, but if they do only the ThunderChickens can really hold onto the ball without possessing it. 148 and 217's defense could be problematic.
So, after all is said and done, I think that a real aggressive defense would probably be the best way to win. If they can keep up in Hybrid (20 can get 5 lines, 330 3, 2106 2 maybe, and the alliance might get a ball down), and be within ten points, then it's definitely a viable strategy.

In any other match, this alliance would be very strong with the dual-hurdling of 20 and 330 combined with my proposed trackball defense for 2106.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

I will echo what Sean said, when these three are at their top level they are very hard to beat. If 217/148 had their hybrids at the level they were at earlier in the season i think it becomes an even bigger challenge. But if I were to pick three teams that would be able to do it, it would go like this 968/67/195. These three have the hybrid mode abilities to easily be tied with if not in the lead of the Simchicken Wranglers. Also 195 has the speed to race 1114/217 to any ball and prevent them from getting it (As seen in the Galileo Semis). RAWC and HOT have the scoring ability to keep up and the pick-up abilities to be able to deal with 148's defense. If the Robowranglers can pin a ball HOT can either get the ball out/switch to defense to defend 217. Obviously this discussion is moot if any of the teams on either alliance breaks down.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

In all seriousness, 1114, 217, 148 came close to losing a lot more than what most people seem to understand. If you notice they were outscored at least twice if not more times on their way onto Einstein but anytime they were out scored the opposing alliance received at enough penalties to negate the points lead. After seeing 254, 1717 and (???) almost beat them in Galileo I know they can be beat. 1114's biggest advantage is their autonomous consistency and the fact that it's illegal to try to block them. If this were like games of past years then it would be an entirely different issue in autonomous. At that point there are many strong hurdlers that could run with them. 254,968,16,67,233,2056, and 330 are the first to come to mind. I think in a straight up scoring match 330 and 254/968 and a quick lap runner could definitely give the current world champs a run for their money.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Obviously I don't think any alliance is unbeatable, but thinking of a trio to bring them down is pretty tricky.

I definitely would have 968, they can hurdle pretty much just as well as 1114, but their hybrid is a bit lacking.

After that, the second hurdler is kind of up for grabs. Teams that I am thinking of include 195, 233, 254, and 330. 195 is a solid hurdler, one of my favorite bots this year, and had a pretty good hybrid from my memory. I still remember when my team was paired with them against 217 and won. 233 obviously a good hurdler too, but not quite as good. 254's capabilities are identical to 968's, but 968 seemed to drive better all year, and 254 had some troubles when defended(by 8 at SVR and 148 in Galileo finals). Finally, 330 can hurdle with the best for sure. If I had to pick one now, I would pick 330.

The third bot is extremely hard to pick, and it depends on the strategy. 8 is the most aggressive defender, and it had some success in trying to stop 1114. However, my picks so far can't match up with 1114's hybrid, so I would consider having 25 playing a nonhurdling role. Their hybrid is almost as good, knocking off 2 balls too, and they can hurdle if needed, but not that fast. Overall, if it weren't for hybrid, any team that can play a little bit of defense, make good laps, maybe knock off balls efficiently, and be a good partner would be a good pick for this, and that would include my team.

My alliance that MIGHT beat the SimChicken Wranglers:
968, 330, 25
It's kind of risky because 25 is not a defender, so unless they adjust, 1114 and 217 could score at will. 25 is my selection purely for their hybrid. For some crazy defense, replace 25 with 8, for laps, replace with 115:P. Of course, I don't know much about the lapping bots of this year, so my team isn't necessarily the one.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

they are good but no one is unbeatable
im sure that there are alot of teams who would have liked to get a chance to play them i know we would have liked to.
they are a great alliance though.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

That would be 384, Sparky. I'm curious what you meant by the 1717, 254, 384 almost beating them. 1114/217/148 won in two matches, 114-58 and 150-58. It was a pretty handy beat down (no offense to the losing teams). 384 couldn't replicate the defense that gave 1114 and 217 trouble earlier, 217 was as mechanically sound as it was the entire eliminations, and the Poofs and Penguins couldn't find their rhythm. That was as convincing as I saw the Galileo #1 alliance the entire event.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Honestly,

With John, Paul, and Karthik (the Big 3 that come to mind... i know there are plenty of amazing scouts behind each one) on the same team, they could make cardboard boxes win matches... its just what they do...

However are they beatable... obviously with what we saw during the season is that they were not beatable (best of 3). However if you were to say is there ANY alliance out there that could beat them? The answer is yes. Here are just a few alliances i think could have beat them:

968, 67, 60
968 - 254 - 330
1124 - 1024 - 968

These are just a few... I have 968 on each of these, because i believe they have the BEST robot, but not the best drive team/strategy as proven by the Simbo-Chicken-Wranglers.

Anyways... can they be beat by Any alliance? Yes. Could they have been beaten by any alliance they faced? Yes. Were they beaten? No.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Their machine has only so much to do with winning the gold. The main factors were the relationship these 3 teams have with each other and how experienced their drive team was. Yes, they are beatable. But I doubt that there are many alliances that will be able to take them out of the competition.

As far luck goes, I don't think there was much luck involved when 1114 ended up seeding #1. As many have pointed out before in quiet a few threads that 1114 built a machine that can probably take on a lot of alliance just on their own. They were putting up enough points each match that I can't think of a team to compare them to. I believe this was the first year in a long time I felt that team 1114, 217 and 148 earned the gold without any luck. If there is anything "lucky" about this alliance, it would be the fact that 148 was still available for the pick.

It's not the machine that mattered the most, what was the strategy they came up with to earn the gold.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

For some reason I remember scoring prior to penalties to be much close than that. I'd have to look it up but it's far to late right now....way too tired...

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

968 can get 5 lines in hybrid mode, if they were allied with a partner that took down balls then their hybrid mode is just about the best you can ask for. Very very few times did I see a team get more lines than five.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

I think Mr. Derek Bessette plays a part in this as well, if I'm not mistaken.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

And possibly earning themselves a yellow card.
You might rethink that:Racking up 2 points for the opponents each time they cross their ball.

Also illegal - see <G27>.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

You are correct, sir, I am a bit rusty on the rules, so thanks for pointing out where there were holes. You are right on pretty much every point, so I think my strategy definitely needed some rethinking. :o

I guess that team 20's strategy would need to change as well. Perhaps having them hurdle alongside 330, racking up the score. Or swap 20 with 968, as their hybrids are close in score, and 968 can hurdle more in tele.

I'm not sure, however, if 2106 would be considered in possession of the ball. The ball would not be "supported," because it would be resting on the ground, and not being held. I suppose it might be grounds for capturing, but if 2106 loosened their manipulator by about a foot there would be some room for it to move, at the expense of your total defense.
Thanks again for helping me remember to check the manual before strategizing! :p

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Which is exactly why I have 25 as the third bot, they can knock both balls off, at least in the match we were paired with them. And I know 968 can get lots of lines, I just meant that they just couldn't knock off both balls.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

I don't recall the exact wording of the rule, but it says something to the effect of that if you're pushing the ball around, stop, change directions, and the ball comes with you, you're in possession of it, which would be what would happen in this scenario.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

330 on Galileo used their gripper arms to pin a trackball into the all and no penalties were called. 2106 used a similar method, so as long as they dont pick up the ball, it would not incur penalties.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Yeah, but 330 doesn't encircle the ball. They just go halfway around.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

The ball pinning strategy that you guys are discussing cost us in the Philly semi finals and on Archi. Every time I challenged the rulings I was always told that it's not illegal if the ball does not move as the robot does. Basically if the robot moves and the ball then goes into unrestrained motion it's legal. Now if the robot moves and the ball moves in restrained motion with the robot it's considered illegal

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

It also wasn't effective against 1114, because they were able to roll it out. They are THAT good. I think 2106 would have the same problem.

See about 40 seconds into this video: http://www.thebluealliance.net/tbatv...?matchid=10451

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

1114 is the best scorer. They aren't untouchable, and in any given match, can get outscored by certain robots given the circumstances, but they are, in my opinion, the single best bot this year in the competition. Going into the championships, I thought it would be their title to lose, and I know anything can happen, but they didn't lose it. I don't mean to belittle 217 or 148. They are great robots, but 1114 won every single competition they entered. 217, 148, and others were great robots but not as dominant.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

This nudged a thought that has been brewing over the past couple of days. It could probably brew for a couple more but I'll give it a shot.

When the posts began in the CD fora after the 2008 Championship and when photos began to appear, we were lucky to have some of our World Champions contributing their thoughts, reactions, and feelings in the threads. The teams, the coaches, and the drive teams were all so happy. What seemed to come from all the happiness and celebration and found its way into words was the respect that all of them had for each other and how they made up for weaknesses that occurred/popped up in the matches, depending on the alliance to overcome those weaknesses and challenges by working together and communicating with each other - all the while competing for the victories on Galileo and then on Einstein. The respect, in my mind, has been developed over time and is a great nod towards the importance of having engineers involved in the FRC program as mentors and as coaches, working side by side with students. The winning alliance showcased this importance and it also reflected a respect and appreciation that teams can have for themselves and for each other. Whether one robot was more dominant or not in the end or whether this worthy alliance that competed on Einstein and brought home the gold - can be beaten, is not important to me. They have already proven that they can win and they can win even when things get a little tough or challenging. That is when the alliance works together showing the strength of character and the level of respect - when it gets a little tough. And, that is what the robotics competition part of FIRST is about. I said all that and did not use the term, Gracious Professionalism, but it was present there between the lines and within those teams. Still is.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Very good point.

My team was not good enough to even make the eliminations at Championships, ... this year. We made championships our first two years, and are extremely proud coming from a smaller school and with only 13 members. We learned a great deal about engineering, teamwork, and many other things including the possibly overused, but underappreciated term, gracious professionalism. 1114, 148, and 217 came together to build robots that were amazing, but they also worked together and became more than just the sum of their parts. They decided on a strategy that was effective and worked extremely well, and executed it brilliantly.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Meet their match:

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Well he isn't that big in the movie

I don't have his exact dimensions, but I'd be willing to bet he could even fit inside a trackball, let alone the box

walllleeee...

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

An alliance to beat them: 968/67/27. 968 and 67 for scoring and 27 as a backup scoring/lapbot. Yes 27 is a dangerous scoring machine in their own right but they are really fast if they can get their transmission troubles worked out. 968 had one of the best scoring systems out there and 67 was a very scary machine as well.

I decided to go with 3 dangerous scoring robots as opposed to defense. My logic is, 27 can run defense against 217, or 1114 but if either of the other two teams break their scoring mechanism they can trade places. This allows a level of redundancy that I do not see in 1114/217/148.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

I sure hope I get to see team 27 run defense against team 1114 or 217 for that matter whether during qualifying or elimination at IRI.

And for the beginning of the thread, Team 1114's coach was Derek Bessette as Jane pointed it out.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

well, i am just starting up my team
i can't give any comment
but i think, the strongest team will also be replace within a certain amount of time
people leave and new people come
so the question is, are you ready to beat them?

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

Students leave and new students come.
But mentors are forever.

Re: Are 1114, 217, and 148 beatable?
 

well, not really
sometime some mentors do leave for their reasons
but yeah, I agree that mentors are always there and so do the students will also be interested in joining the FIRST community
just like how the open soruce community works