PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

I was having a discussion about which worked best and unfortunately neither myself of the mentor I was talking with could come up with a consensus. Here is my question: When controlling a robot which gives better control PS2 or Joystick and why. The poll will show who voted for which controller. Please feel free to give your reasoning behind it in this thread. It would be really good to hear from drivers that have used both.

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

As a general thing, I would say it depends on the driver, specifically familiarity with PS2/PS3/whatevergamesystemyoulike controllers vs. other types. Game controllers have more buttons, joysticks are bigger and simpler. You be the judge.

Oh, and Steve... you might want to check the use of your shift key. I don't think many will know what a PS@ system is.

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

Already have sent a message to Brandon to fix for me. I noticed just as I hit the send button.

For those that are not sure PS@ = PS2 (with a little shift added). :rolleyes:

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

Im all for joysticks but my team and I think the Wiimote would be the coolest thing to control the robot

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

I really think it depends on the driver.

As a not so great driver in '07, I liked the xbox controller (similar enough to ps2 for this argument). I had played a lot of halo, so the control and fine movements with it worked well for me.

To the average kid in FIRST, i suppose joysticks would be easier because they are easier to get fine movement out of.

I know it wasn't the question asked, but after seeing many teams run it, and trying it out myself, I'm very favorable to a joystick for throttle and a wheel for steering.

He's talking pure functionality, not coolness. But yes, a wiimote would be cool.

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

I've never been a big fan of using game controllers in general. As an example, I'll buy any game that isn't console exclusive on the PC instead. This extends to driving the robot, I just prefer a joystick. However, it is largely personal preference. Someone who is more familiar with a PS2 controller and can use it well will drive better with that than with a joystick.

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

I agree with EricH, it up to the driver on what feels comfortable. Which reminds me that in my seinor year we had a computer RC controller. I was the human player and the first back up driver and while practicing before ship I got to drive a bit. We had a choice to put 2 joysticks if I wanted to, but it was good and didn't get changed.

It also depends on if you are using a tank drive style for the robot, or only one joystick, like we did this last year, to drive the robot. Then you get into the crab/car drive train that might need something different all together. But thats not the point of this thread.

If I had a choice for a robot, I would probally go with a PS2/video game controller. At least that over the white joysticks we've gotten the last couple of years.

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

I'm saying joysticks because that's all I've used (for a robot). Plus joysticks just seem more comfortable, but i can't really say that because I haven't used a PS2 controller under these circumstances. (Driving a car in virtual reality is much different than driving an actual robot.)

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

In my humble (ha!) opinion, I think Joysticks look better for photo-ops. There is something quintessentially FIRST about the shot of 6 students dressed in full battle garb staring thoughtfully into the distance with their hands clutching the joysticks while their mentors shout and point from behind them. The same shot just doesn't work with a game-pad - the students look less engaged and therefore less awesome.

I think it has something to do with the shoulder posture. Joysticks bring the arms further apart, giving a more aggressive stance. Game-pads tend to create a more slouched posture. Can you really inspire fear awesome into your opponents peers with slouched shoulders?

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

I tried out a few various gamepads this year while we were still in the testing phase of our robot and, due to my lack of understanding of C at the time, we had no ramping function (I actually got it added the day before ship -- our driver was very thankful), and so joysticks afforded the greatest control over the robot.

I also agree with Eric: game pads just don't look as good as joysticks.

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

Personally I like joysticks, but out driver hates them. We gave him a Xbox 360 controller, and he was happy.

I think it really doesn't matter, so long as your driver likes it.

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

I've never exactly tried driving a robot with a PS2 controller, but the idea seems a little weird to me. Our team used two joysticks this year, one for the drivetrain and one for the arm, so I suppose that using a controller could combine the two. The right analog stick could be used for the arm, left for the robot, etc. So making the switch to a controller could save us a couple of pounds on the OI.
As said before, driver preference plays a pretty big part in it. Not being a driver, I was able to easily drive the robot during practices using joysticks with no prior joystick-type-controller experience. On the other hand, I've used (and umm...successfully destroyed) a PS2 controller before, but I don't think that I would feel comfortable using it to drive a robot. Then again, I play Final Fantasy, not Gran Turismo.
I'm not sure how the coding for a controller would work, but if your robot had a lot of functions, using all the buttons on a controller could be to your advantage (if it's possible to code it in--again, I don't know squat about programming this stuff). Using joysticks wouldn't be very practical.

Control-wise...it's been said that joysticks do allow fine movement, but then again, PS2 controllers can be very sensitive (assuming they're brand new and haven't been broken yet...). If you use a controller--assuming you use the analog sticks to drive the bot--you're only using one finger to control the bot. Just from playing Final Fantasy, I've found that yes, my thumb CAN slip off the stick when I'm pushing on it, or trying to turn quickly. In a video game, it probably won't matter much, but during a match, it could mean you lose the match. If your driver is skilled at using a controller, this might or might not happen. However, with a joystick, you're most likely using your entire hand to operate the controller, so you have a better grip on it and aren't likely to slip.

So I guess it really does depend on the bot's functions, and the driver preference/ability.
Of course, I could just be extremely biased towards joysticks, that being all I've ever used to drive a bot...

Somehow, I feel as if I've thought this out too much... o.O

Re: PS2 Controllers vs Joysticks
 

Using the joysticks on a PS2 controller is nice because they are symmetrical, which feels a little more intuitive in a tank drive setup. I prefer the feel of the xbox 360 controller, but the joystick placement kind of hurts that setup. If students prefer using joysticks for two different things, like strafing vs. normal driving and turning, then I prefer a controller definitely.
I really like Joysticks for general control of a robot, but I have always been a little bugged by the KoP beige joysticks we get. Just the fact that we have to spend ten minutes turning the little dial to calibrate when we are about to do a demo is a big pain, and their bulky feel isn't too great. But if our team was to modify those things a bit I would love to use them in a different casing.
Joysticks definitely have more fine control but it can depend on your drive code too. Our programmers are notorious for making the controls really jumpy in build season practice, and then you have to practically use thumb and pointer just to move the joystick.

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

Old school flight sticks, FTW!:cool:

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

I voted for the PS2, assuming that the Logitech Game pads fit in to a "generic PS2" category.

The biggest benefit is that it allows the driver to move about while driving... especially important in this year's game what with all the glare.

The second benefit is the isolation of controls. You can seperate the buttons from the x-y, and can even seperate the x from the y by using both thumbs.

The third benefit is that you don't accidentaly bump the trims and/or have to reset them (yeah, we've tried taping them in place, but they still need adjustment)... although a digital joystick would share this benefit.

Jason

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

Oddly enough we haven't had to adjust trim at all this year, I think it may be due to the nature of our companion cube joystick design.

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

My vote is for the joysticks. I tried the game controller originally, but I foun that the joysticks seemed to be more sensitive or responsive. maybe my thumbs just aren't agile enough.

I am going to be going out of my way at IRI to get a look at your team's controls!

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

Hopefully we'll get a chance to drive with each other, and you can see them then. Otherwise feel free to stop by our pit whenever we are there.

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

PS2!!?? But all the games for PS2 suck! :D

We've been using an xBox 360 to control our arms/manipulators and the old school joysticks to control the drive train.

Game controllers are good for manipulators because they have lots of buttons to program, more so than joysticks. We've used all 11 controls (buttons/pads/triggers) on the 360 controller in both 07' and 08'. :D

I think joysticks are better for the base b/c their a more intuitive set-up for tank steering.

Re: PS2 Controllers vs Joysticks
 

I used a PS2 wireless controller for some non First Robots my son and I were playing with a few years ago. I did add a mapping function . With out the mapping function control was not very good. Each drive train we tried used a little different function. We drove with our thumbs tank style. The advantage of just using you thumbs is that your only using the muscles in your thumbs. This tends to give more precise control. With First joysticks there are too many muscle groups involved.

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

Our team forever has used the old school flight sticks. But now our new drivers are talking about using XBOX 360 controllers. Its whatever they prefer. I personally would rather see drivers using whatever controller they prefer.

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

We've used the Joysticks up till now. I would prefer to stay with joysticks:

They give variable sensitivity based on how you hold them.

They have more room for custom buttons you may want to add for special functions.

They have a surer feel to many people.

We haven't had any issues with adjusting out KOP joysticks either - we use 3 for our board. We use a dremel to grind the adjustment wheels completely flat once they are adjusted correctly, then we put a bead of glue from a hot glue gun over them. You can peel the glue off to make an adjustment, but we only had to do so when we made some programming changes.

We considered game controllers because of their size and mobility, but shied away from based on our success with the joysticks and cost avoidance (we didn't want to purchase chicklets).

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

I've driven robots in competition both ways our 2005 robot used joysticks, and our 2006 robot used our PS2 Controllers. Personally I like joysticks, not because it allows better handling per say, but I just felt more comfortable using them.

But its a matter of driver's preference. So you have to look at what the person using them is going to prefer. We had to learn this lesson, just because you CAN use or do something doesn't mean it SHOULD be used or done.

Re: PS2 Contollers vs Joysticks
 

I would say it really depends on your programming and what kinds of buttons you need. Obviously, if you need lots of buttons or you need to hit them a lot, a controller will do very nicely; the PS2 controller, for example, has 8 real "buttons", and that's not counting pressing down on the sticks (not recommended to map that-accidents can happen!), the D-pad, etc.
In terms of control, as many others have said, that's personal preference. I've spend more hours on a PS2 then I'd like to think about and the last joystick I really used had a parallel port, so there's my preference right there. I would recommend talking to your prospective drivers (or, if you are the driver, trying both out in a game or something) and programmers and seeing what they think.